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Refereeing decisions

LeCheese

LeCheese

Peter Johnson (47)
Tazzmania said:
something like the bunker in rugby league.
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The bunker model has shown on numerous occasions that one person making the decision is not the answer. It needs to be a collaborative decision-making process. To err is human, which is why we need failsafes.

I get the feeling that sometimes the assistant refs (incl. TMO) may not feel like they have the autonomy / authority to speak up on some decisions and question the person in the middle; particularly if there is a difference in level of seniority or experience. Of course, the flip side to a more collaborative model is longer discussions when making decisions, which probably won't sit well with many fans either.
 
Dan54

Dan54

Tim Horan (67)
Isn't it funny how tv has stuffed everything up. You always had controversial decisions, generally shrugged shoulders and made for a discussion over a beer what everyone thought. Now with replays showing seemingly 5 different angles at different speeds, with commentator crying if their team was hard done by, now we have to have a bloody committee to ref the game!! I really found accepting sometime there was a mistake made was when there were more happy viewers!
 
LeCheese

LeCheese

Peter Johnson (47)
Dan54 said:
Isn't it funny how tv has stuffed everything up. You always had controversial decisions, generally shrugged shoulders and made for a discussion over a beer what everyone thought. Now with replays showing seemingly 5 different angles at different speeds, with commentator crying if their team was hard done by, now we have to have a bloody committee to ref the game!! I really found accepting sometime there was a mistake made was when there were more happy viewers!
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The ability to share and receive the (often similar) opinions of thousands of others' on platforms like here and social media doesn't particularly help
 
Dan54

Dan54

Tim Horan (67)
Yep even I have seen the game at test level go from 1 ref, with reserves of each team running sidelines, to ref and 2 refs just doing line duties, and then the 1 ref and a assistants (linesman), and now we add in TMO, and still seemingly dissatisfaction with that, I personally think Derps is right , and would prefer less interference, and I would add with rules that grounds with screens cannot show any replays except tries. The powers that be can scan the footage for foul play later and cite anyone needing it. I know most on here don't watch NPC, but one thing I noticed was how little the TMO was consulted, and in the final I don't recall him being involved once, same as a few other games,it certainly helped make games more enjoyable.
 
Rob42

Rob42

John Solomon (38)
If we reduce the use of the TMO to check foul play in-game, then it has to be paired with a more effective judiciary process. The current judiciary process (or processes, across the world and in different competitions) is ridiculously inconsistent. It's not fair on referees to expect them to make an accurate decision after looking at video replays for 2 minutes, let them make their best guess and have an effective judiciary sort out the details.
 
qwerty51

qwerty51

Stirling Mortlock (74)
The host broadcaster has way too much power over the TMO. What about when Dupont kicked out of the full and we didn't even see a replay!?!?
 
gel

gel

Ken Catchpole (46)
Pfitzy said:
I think that also requires the removal of 15 replays of every angle of a possible infringement or no-try by the home broadcaster.

And that's the tough bit.
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Removing any in game TMO process completely depowers the host broadcaster. On field, game time decision sticks and the host broadcaster can replay it however many times they want and it won't matter.

Referees have a tough job because they have to make the decision real time, and people ultimately accept that.

TMOs have all the time in the world and actually the wrong decisions (or worse make contradicting decisions/non decisions that decided the outcomes of matches) that it is actually indefensible.

Dangerous Offences that endanger will still be treated with the same after match processes and result in the same outcomes for offenders (I would personally prefer they double or triple suspensions to get serious about player welfare - but players aren't gonna have that)
 
swingpass

swingpass

Peter Sullivan (51)
Gel completely agree, the TMO was originally there to point out absolutely egregious mistakes NOT to finesse every breakdown and tackle
 
Dan54

Dan54

Tim Horan (67)
I don't think the host broadcaster has any control over the ref, as he has his own link wich he(or she) controls. I used to not like the replays on big screen before TMO was used as refs would see it and get pressured. But at moment. from what I understand the TMO just takes same feeds that director does with no commentary.
 
LeCheese

LeCheese

Peter Johnson (47)
Dan54 said:
I don't think the host broadcaster has any control over the ref, as he has his own link wich he(or she) controls. I used to not like the replays on big screen before TMO was used as refs would see it and get pressured. But at moment. from what I understand the TMO just takes same feeds that director does with no commentary.
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My understanding is the host broadcaster controls the big screen feeds, so have full control over what is or isn't shown. I believe this is even when the TMO is looking at something, and is who the TMO is often talking / giving directions to and the reason there's often delays on requests.
 
Dan54

Dan54

Tim Horan (67)
LeCheese said:
My understanding is the host broadcaster controls the big screen feeds, so have full control over what is or isn't shown. I believe this is even when the TMO is looking at something, and is who the TMO is often talking / giving directions to and the reason there's often delays on requests.
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Yep, host broadcaster controls the big screen feeds, but the TMO doesn't see big screen, he is sitting in a booth with 3 or 4 screens in front of him that he controls. TMO is the one who finds what clips he wants the ref to review in game etc. During the Women's WC they have actually shown the TMO at work, and saying to ref, hang on I just bringinging up the thing I want you to see etc. So TMO obviosly has some control when there is a break in play, I believe the rest is just the TV feed as you say. But I was surprised that it seems the TMO has feeds from all cameras in live play, and don't actually just get big screen feed.
 
LeCheese

LeCheese

Peter Johnson (47)
Dan54 said:
Yep, host broadcaster controls the big screen feeds, but the TMO doesn't see big screen, he is sitting in a booth with 3 or 4 screens in front of him that he controls. TMO is the one who finds what clips he wants the ref to review in game etc. During the Women's WC they have actually shown the TMO at work, and saying to ref, hang on I just bringinging up the thing I want you to see etc. So TMO obviosly has some control when there is a break in play, I believe the rest is just the TV feed as you say. But I was surprised that it seems the TMO has feeds from all cameras in live play, and don't actually just get big screen feed.
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Ah right, sorry misinterpreted your initial post. The host broadcaster may not have influence over the TMO, but as you said, they control the big screen whenever the TMO is not, which can be pretty influential.

Show a few replays, get the crowd fired up, the on-field refs glance at the big screen and see something amiss, and we’re having a review - piece of cake!
 
Braveheart81

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Dan54 said:
During the Women's WC they have actually shown the TMO at work, and saying to ref, hang on I just bringing up the thing I want you to see etc. So TMO obviosly has some control when there is a break in play,
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This has been really interesting to watch.

Assuming it's the same everywhere there's basically the TMO and then the operator next to them who controls the technology.
 
Dan54

Dan54

Tim Horan (67)
Braveheart81 said:
This has been really interesting to watch.

Assuming it's the same everywhere there's basically the TMO and then the operator next to them who controls the technology.
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I think they just take control after a referral BH, from what I understand the rest is controlled by broadcaster's director who hands over control when referral is on.
 
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