RWC 2011 - Bitch, moan and discuss - Referees and Law Discussions

[Toby Lerone]

It was interesting in the Fiji v Namibia game. The ball went in goal and a player from both teams went for the ball. Nigel Owens blew his whistle and asked the TMO the right questions. The response was that neither side had grounded the ball. It should have been play on, (I forget if the ball went dead, or not.) It just goes to show that you may as well ground the ball after such an incident if the whistle hasn't blown yet. You never know.

What happened next? Owens ordered a 22 drop out.

Does anybody remember how the ball got over the goal line?

A Fiji player just about got his hands on it but a Namibian knee/leg knocked the ball out of his hands and past the deadball line in goal.
It was kicked into in-goal by a Namibian player, so the 22 drop out was the right decision.

The TMO did ask him if he was going back for the flagged foul play (from AR Jerome Garces) but said before that it would have been a 22 drop out without the foul play (obviously not hearing Nigel Owens say that the advantage was over when he was making his decision).

 

[Blob]

Barnes made absolutely the right decision. I'm mystified as to why anyone would want the TMOs input. The TV footage is inconclusive, but worse than that it's taken from a worse angle than where the ARs were standing. What possible help could the TMO have been?

 

[Lee Grant]

This is part of a column in Planet Rugby by Cobus Visagie:

**********

It is clear that Richie McCaw and the rest of his gang's antics of diving over rucks and not releasing in the tackle are now at the top of most referees' black book. If a referee has the guts to penalise them according to the laws, it will make them vulnerable to both penalties, as well as the speed at which opposition teams can attack against them with the benefit of quicker ruck ball. Wayne Barnes and Australia showed exactly this in their last Tri-Nations game.

One of my two pet hates at the moment is referees that cannot pick up tacklers not releasing after the tackle. I am not sure if it shows their bias or their incompetence or the fact that they don't have a clue that it is the single factor that destroys all continuity and offensive opportunities for attacking rugby at the moment. The referees can make the game happen or they can allow it to become a wrestling match from start to finish. The best example this weekend of a player that was given free reign was the Welsh captain and man of the match, Sam Warburton.

The second issue which increases my blood pressure to about 3 bar is the interpretation of when a player is off his feet at a ruck. When a player has not controlled himself and fallen over a ruck, he should not be able to crawl back on his hands and remain part of the ruck. If you do not know what I am talking about, just watch a couple of clips of Richie McCaw. They deliberately take the space in the "gate" of the ruck on the attacking team's side, while they have their weight on their hands. It is impossible to clean out the players in this situation. Even if it is only for 2 seconds, it is a penalty. Players should learn to enter the area with balance and ensure they can stay on their feet. It will clean up the area, ensure safety at the ruck area and produce attacking rugby with far more continuity than what we are seeing at the moment.

 

[Lee Grant]

It was kicked into in-goal by a Namibian player, so the 22 drop out was the right decision.

Thanks. I didn't realise the ball had gone dead. I thought Owens had ordered a 22 drop out when nobody had grounded the ball and it was still in-goal.

 

[Top Bloke]

To be Honest Lee - I'm not so sure I'd admit to reading anything on planet rugby - Went to the forums there today and found this gem by a poster called "Logical thinker" - He doesn't think the RWC atmosphere is that good and suggests it might improve if the matches could be at 12pm UK time, not sure what the players would think about that however


Atmosphere of this world cup not so good. [message #6986903] Tue, 13 September 2011 00:03


I'm just saying they had a better atmosphere probably because the stadiums were a little better. But there's been some great matches at this WC but they should stick them on a little later. Like 12:00 PM UK time.

Followed up with this beauty:

My point is that in terms of atmosphere I thought the last world cup was better. Obviously there's going to be a time difference but as New Zealand is a small country they should compromise and make the match times a bit more convenient for the NH viewers. We are a larger population.

I think the matches have been very good from what I've seen. But the kiwi fans seem not a passionate as the French.

 

[Lee Grant]

Stay away from the forum. The old Scrum forum was tops about 10 years ago, but it's gone now.

 

[Blob]

If a referee has the guts to penalise them according to the laws, it will make them vulnerable to both penalties, as well as the speed at which opposition teams can attack against them with the benefit of quicker ruck ball. Wayne Barnes and Australia showed exactly this in their last Tri-Nations game.

The referees can make the game happen or they can allow it to become a wrestling match from start to finish. The best example this weekend of a player that was given free reign was the Welsh captain and man of the match, Sam Warburton.

Erm, Cobus, that was Barnes in both games.

 

[Lee Grant]

When the law crackdown was introduced at the start of the 2010 Super14 the effects seemed to be salutary but then there was a bit of uneasiness because the crackdown, authorised to help attack and to discourage aerial ping pong, got too one sided. The result? Defenders, fed up with being disadvantaged stopped trying to compete. They attended rucks in smaller numbers with more of their team mates spreading out in the defensive line.

Good referees applied the crackdown to both sides but we saw the malign effect of bad application of the directive.

The latest crackdown outlined by the IRB before the RWC is having the same effect at the tournament notwithstanding that the finest referees in the world have the whistle. I am sure they will recalibrate, because they are the best and it was good to see non-nonsense Roman Poite get the balance right in the Samoa v Namibia match.

Balance is the key: refereeing the breakdown to help attackers more can have the opposite effect.

 

[Scarfman]

France v Japan - what the hell was Walsh thinking in the first try? Medar gets tackled, rucked over, then he just stands up again without releasing. Walsh was 2 metres away. Dickenson should have been selected ahead of him - he's just too crazy.

 

[barbarian]

Yeah that was the worst reffing decision so far this cup. Walsh made some strange calls that game.

 

[antimony]

2nd free kick for not fead straight into the scrum in the USA V Russia game. Words to the effect of "straight into the 2nd row".

Are the reffs trying to at least give the impression that both teams can hook for the ball in this tournament?

 

[St Peter]

To be Honest Lee - I'm not so sure I'd admit to reading anything on planet rugby - Went to the forums there today and found this gem by a poster called "Logical thinker" - He doesn't think the RWC atmosphere is that good and suggests it might improve if the matches could be at 12pm UK time, not sure what the players would think about that however.[/I]

Bugger those in difficult timezones for this WC ... it it awsome not having to stay up until 3am to watch games for once!

 

[Ruggo]

I would love to see that Welsh denied penalty goal from another angle. They keep showing the same angle.

 

[Bruwheresmycar]

France v Japan - what the hell was Walsh thinking in the first try? Medar gets tackled, rucked over, then he just stands up again without releasing. Walsh was 2 metres away. Dickenson should have been selected ahead of him - he's just too crazy.

Yea, agree with Baabaa, worst decision so far!

However, i think he realized he stuffed up big time and was strict for the rest of the game. He made dam well sure he didn't miss anything else...Or he'd be out of finals contention after 1 game.

Good to have the wake up call 5 minutes into the cup rather than a semi final i guess.

 

[lily]

IRB Referees

After watching several games my question is this. Why do the obvious patsie get screwed in every 50/50 call? Not only that but also why does last feet mean last feet for these guys yet for the others it means being blatantly offside?

 

[Bruwheresmycar]

We already have a world cup refereeing thread. I think this will get merged in with that. In future use the "search" function before starting a thread.

As for your question, I didn't understand it. Is it an actual question about refereeing? Or just some sort of statement that you want people to read?

 

[Gnostic]

Poite's performance in the match SA V Fiji was terrible. His adjudication of the breakdown was shocking and very inconsistant within the game. People penalised at one ruck and the next players doing the same thing getting away with it. Fiji tacklers never released the player and Brussow entered many rucks from the side and grapples for the ball with knees on the tackled player.

 

[whatty]

Is pasties a reference to the type of pie you eat or the color of your skin?

 

[Swarley]

Patsy is another term for scapegoat.

 

[Jnor]

Perhaps I'll feel differently after a second viewing (although I don't think I can bring myself to it), but.

Bryce Lawrence.

He can't keep up with play, doesn't understand the concept of advantage, has absolutely no idea what a scrum is and should not be an international referee. I would have Kaplan over him any day of the week. KAPLAN FOR FUCK SAKE!