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RWC Pool D - Wallabies vs Uruguay -Saturday October 5 2019 @ 2:15pm

drewprint

Colin Windon (37)
That would be last RWC.

The concerning thing for me too, is Cheika's post match interview. He seemed to down-play To'omua's impact stating he had better front foot ball from the forwards.
I got the feeling Cheika was making excuses for Foley's poor performance. Foley's terrible passes, missed tackles, poor kick can't be disregarded and blamed on the forwards not providing front foot ball.

I hope To'omua starts at 10 for the rest of thr tourney, even against these two games. He needs more time in the position. Happy to sub him off after 45mins and bring on Lilo.

He’s not going to go on TV and publicly hang Foley out to dry though is he? Of course he’s going to protect him a bit. I’m no Foley fan but I feel quite sad for all the hate he gets. He’s been a good honest player for us for a long time, in a position where our depth has been terrible, and he’s generally made a decent fist of it.
 

drewprint

Colin Windon (37)
As for the team, I think it’s really important we give Dempsey some game time too. In an ideal world I still think I’d like to see him as our starting #6, with Pocock on the bench and LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) as bench lock.
 

The Honey Badger

Jim Lenehan (48)
If that is the case, who is playing back - Beale? and the other Wing - AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)?
I would play Beale Petaia and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), TK as one centre, probably keep JOC (James O'Connor) as the other.

Still a good side that should flog a third teir country
 

KOB1987

Rod McCall (65)
I think To'omua will probably start at 10 in this game and if he can avoid the trend of having to be hooked at half time (albeit against weaker opposition) he will probably be saved for the quarter final gig, leaving Lilo and Foley to steer the ship v Georgia.
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
I think To'omua will probably start at 10 in this game and if he can avoid the trend of having to be hooked at half time (albeit against weaker opposition) he will probably be saved for the quarter final gig, leaving Lilo and Foley to steer the ship v Georgia.


I would prefer the opposite with Foley & Lilo will play roles to find who is the bench option for the 1/4

I would guess the full dress rehearsal team for the Georgia match
 

molman

Peter Johnson (47)
I would play Beale Petaia and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), TK as one centre, probably keep JOC (James O'Connor) as the other.

Still a good side that should flog a third teir country

Fair enough. Beale really needs to stand up and show some impact. That crabbing and marginal forward pass to LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto) wasn't his finest. I see how he was looking for space, but I always feel like he's trying to do it himself rather than working with the team. I like it when he runs hard at the seams, like that nice try him and Foley setup in the Rugby Championship game against SA.
 

molman

Peter Johnson (47)
I would prefer the opposite with Foley & Lilo will play roles to find who is the bench option for the 1/4

I would guess the full dress rehearsal team for the Georgia match

That was my thinking also, they will run closer to their first 15 for the Georgia game.
 

molman

Peter Johnson (47)
He’s not going to go on TV and publicly hang Foley out to dry though is he? Of course he’s going to protect him a bit. I’m no Foley fan but I feel quite sad for all the hate he gets. He’s been a good honest player for us for a long time, in a position where our depth has been terrible, and he’s generally made a decent fist of it.

What a balanced and considerate post (from a QLD-er no less). I sometimes wonder if the players ever see some of the stuff that it written about them because the venom and hate is a bit excessive at times. You kind of hope not. At the end of the day these players are selected and I can't imagine any of them go out to perform badly or not give it their all - especially on the World Cup stage.

I thought DHP had a blinder in this game and a shocker against SA some games back, it happens. Foley likewise had a poor game for whatever reason - he just looked rattled from the beginning, much like Lilo looked rattled in the Fiji game. I wonder if they are both mentally feeling the pressure and To'omua is just handling that aspect better, or perhaps it just it the difference in the intensity at the beginning of the game verse later on, much in the same way White and Genia looked so much better when they came on later stages in their respective games.
 
B

Bobby Sands

Guest
Gibson really did a number on all these Tahs players.

I do not care if others think it’s “too much” his performances for a very long time have been harmful to the side.

Lilo is obviously ahead of him, even if only our back up.

Foleys issues might even be mental at this point, either way - he is shot to bits.
 

Brumby Runner

David Wilson (68)
We are surely selecting all the back end of the squad for this and then using the Georgia game to build for the quarter final.

1. Slipper
2. Fainga'a
3. Tupou
4. Simmons
5. Coleman
6. LSL (Lukhan Salakaia-Loto)
7. Pocock
8. Dempsey
9. Genia
10. Foley/Lilo/To'omua
11. Petaia
12. JOC (James O'Connor)
13. Kuridrani
14. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
15. Beale

16. Uelese 17. Sio 18. Kepu 19. Rodda 20. Hooper 21. White 22. Lilo/Foley/To'omua 23. DHP

You're resting Ala'alatoa, Latu, Arnold, Naisarani, Kerevi, Koroibete and probably To'omua and Hodge who will all start against Georgia and then our quarter final. Hodge is suspended and would come back for the quarter final unless Petaia manages to unseat him.

The question for Cheika now is whether To'omua is going to start at 10 against Georgia and the quarter final or whether we return to Lilo. Foley clearly had a shocker and shouldn't be picked again if it can be avoided. We need to consider that Lilo hasn't played well though. He has played 1 good test against the All Blacks in Perth this season and has been average (Argentina) or substantially worse (All Blacks at Eden Park, Fiji) in his other tests.

It doesn't bode well that we have effectively dragged our 10 for form issues shortly after half time in three tests this year (Lilo against the All Blacks at Eden Park and Fiji, and Foley against Wales).

I don't have any idea about what Cheika will do, but the No 10 spot from here on should be a choice/decision between To'omua and Leali'ifano. Therefore, one should start v Uruguay with the other on the bench, and swap them for Georgia. My choice would be CLL to start against Uruguay and To'omua to start against Georgia (the more difficult prospect I think). The starting point for the selectors should be CLL to be the main man for 10 with Matty T off the bench, but form in these two games could change that.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
The starting point for the selectors should be CLL to be the main man for 10 with Matty T off the bench, but form in these two games could change that.


I find it hard to work out how CLL should still be considered the 'main man for 10'. His last two outings have been a debacle and the only reason he is still in the frame is because Foley was just as, if not more terrible against Wales.

Foley vs Wales - 1 try assist, 1/2 kicking, 2 runs for 5 metres, 2 turnovers conceded, 4 tackles, 2 missed. Hooked after 45 minutes.

Leali'ifano vs Fiji - 1/3 kicking, 4 runs for 7 metres, 1 turnover conceded, 2 tackles, 3 missed. Replaced after 59 minutes.

Leali'ifano vs NZ - 0/2 kicking, 3 runs for 18 metres, 1 turnover conceded, 2 tackles. Hooked after 47 minutes.

Realistically, To'omua is the only player who hasn't been terrible there in the last couple of months and that is entirely off the bench.
 

molman

Peter Johnson (47)
I find it hard to work out how CLL should still be considered the 'main man for 10'. His last two outings have been a debacle and the only reason he is still in the frame is because Foley was just as, if not more terrible against Wales.

Foley vs Wales - 1 try assist, 1/2 kicking, 2 runs for 5 metres, 2 turnovers conceded, 4 tackles, 2 missed. Hooked after 45 minutes.

Leali'ifano vs Fiji - 1/3 kicking, 4 runs for 7 metres, 1 turnover conceded, 2 tackles, 3 missed. Replaced after 59 minutes.

Leali'ifano vs NZ - 0/2 kicking, 3 runs for 18 metres, 1 turnover conceded, 2 tackles. Hooked after 47 minutes.

Realistically, To'omua is the only player who hasn't been terrible there in the last couple of months and that is entirely off the bench.

Which is why I can still see Foley in the frame and have questions over how much starting vs. being a finisher was to To'omua's benefit because historically he hasn't been very impressive at 10, but maybe it's finally clicking for him?... but then, if he is potentially your best 10, do you run him now or rest him so he's ready to go against Georgia and the likely England? ... I'm interested to see which way the selectors go. Who even knows where CLL is physically, that could be an aspect as well.
 

drewprint

Colin Windon (37)
I think it’s definitely mental with Foley. As I mentioned in the match thread, he had tears in his eyes after being hooked. He looked shellshocked. I really think the poor guys confidence is shot.

For what it’s worth, I think To'omua has the most balanced temperament for us moving forward in the tournament. He might not be able to create as much as the others when they’re on song, but at least we’d hopefully see a lower error rate, more consistent kicking, tough defence and a willingness to straighten the attack and hit the line with purpose. Maybe that’s the best we can hope for currently.
 

Derpus

Jason Little (69)
Our 10s have also clearly been identified as a distinct weak point by all teams and have been put under incredible pressure so far.

If To'omua is to start he better be ready to get belted.
 

molman

Peter Johnson (47)
I think it’s definitely mental with Foley. As I mentioned in the match thread, he had tears in his eyes after being hooked. He looked shellshocked. I really think the poor guys confidence is shot.

For what it’s worth, I think To'omua has the most balanced temperament for us moving forward in the tournament. He might not be able to create as much as the others when they’re on song, but at least we’d hopefully see a lower error rate, more consistent kicking, tough defence and a willingness to straighten the attack and hit the line with purpose. Maybe that’s the best we can hope for currently.

The question is, do you want two backup 10's you have question marks over. You kind of need at least one or ideally both of them to come good, To'omua can't play the 80mins for the next three games... and if one of those big Georgia boys takes him out then what...

I think your right re: Foley's confidence which is why I don't know if this is the game where you try and set that right, even if it is off the bench. I guess the team management will have better insight to the whole situation with CLL and Foley.
 

fatprop

George Gregan (70)
Staff member
mmm so far this year, apart from one game vs 14, our starting 10s have been belted and given few options with the bench option looking golden, seems like a poison chalice to me, To'omua deserves his shot, but I don't see him as the saviour

Fresh rushing defensive lines are giving no options until they tire, they lead to shit pases under pressure, slow rucks and the circle of life continuing

And the next two games aren't going to provide a viable test of concept
 
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molman

Peter Johnson (47)
mmm so far this year, apart from one game vs 14, our starting 10s have been belted and given few options with the bench option looking golden, seems like a poison chalice to me, To'omua deserves his shot, but I don't see him as the saviour

Fresh rushing defensive lines are giving no options until they tire, they lead to shit pases under pressure, slow rucks and the circle of life continuing

And the next two games aren't going to provide a viable test of concept


That's why the offside not being particularly well officiated irks me. The rush defence is overly effective. I suspect that we just need to keep it tighter in those early stanzas, perhaps even try the territory game or employ more short kicks (chips, grubbers... whatever) into space to keep the defence honest. I'd like to see us keep the tempo up on our clean outs and keep them on their heals. We look like a very fit team, but so do England. If that’s who we come up against we're going to have to play smart to beat them and they have some kicking strengths that we really lack, not to mention some pace out wide - which is why I'm hopeful Petaia resolves that piece of the puzzle for us.
 

Derpus

Jason Little (69)
That's why the offside not being particularly well officiated irks me. The rush defence is overly effective. I suspect that we just need to keep it tighter in those early stanzas, perhaps even try the territory game or employ more short kicks (chips, grubbers. whatever) into space to keep the defence honest. I'd like to see us keep the tempo up on our clean outs and keep them on their heals. We look like a very fit team, but so do England. If that’s who we come up against we're going to have to play smart to beat them and they have some kicking strengths that we really lack, not to mention some pace out wide - which is why I'm hopeful Petaia resolves that piece of the puzzle for us.
We should just clam possession up in the first 40 in pod after pod after pod, like Ireland.

Then loosen up in the second half.
 
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