School sporting scholarships/recruitment

[WB3]

Luani played a few games in the 2nds last year and now is the #8 for Australian Schoolboys. Newington developed him into the player he is now.

I don't want to weigh into the scholarship discussion, but I agree that Luani is a MUCH improved player this year - last year he was an OK 2nds level player and this year he was a machine. New need to take some credit for that.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I recall a time when lifting in lineouts was against the laws of the game. The Saffers were very good at circumventing this law. The laws were changed to legitimise this cheating. Come the professional era and surprise 15 years later, the young generation know nothing about the tall timber actually jumping unsupported.

Passing the ball off the ground was once illegal, as was the hooker having a foot in the field of play when feeding the lineout. Don't get me started on ahat the halfback gets away with nowdays.

So apparently scholarships are apparently against some arcane GPS rule. It is also apparently against ISA rules. Don't know about CAS. Who cares.

Change the rules and move on. Will the sun suddenly rise in the West if Schools are allowed to officially offer scholarships?

Rugby is now a legitimate profession, and clubs are now a business. League and club scouts circle like vultures around talented players keen for signatures.

Whether a kid is at a particular school because he is perceived to be good at rugby is unimportant. Even less if they have a brown skin.

We should rejoice that kids with rugby skills are playing footy at a level commensurate with their abilities. If some other entity apart from the parents are prepared to pay the school fees for that child then so what. I don't care.
If the mungoballers are prepared to front up with $, then that is their business decision and they must justify this to their board. GPS fees are not cheap.

 

[supporter]

What's wrong with someone or third party pay scholarship for a boy to go a GPS school?

 

[supporter]

Change the rules and move on.
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Agree. Most GPS school belong to a Xian denomination and these schools should find ways to help the needy. One way of doing it is to allow scholarship for the under-privilege.

 

[Lee Grant]

Most boring and over worked topic on green and gold by far.

Can someone delete this topic, please

Maybe one of these days. It serves to isolate the comments about the subject to keep it out of the real rugby threads.

If this topic is not popular with folks I have a bit of advice - don't read it - and don't keep posting on it to say it's a joke or that we shouldn't have it - which proves you are still reading it.

 

[Rugbygirl]

I don't want to weigh into the scholarship discussion, but I agree that Luani is a MUCH improved player this year - last year he was an OK 2nds level player and this year he was a machine. New need to take some credit for that.

Lets say it one more time: LUANI IS NOT AN IMPORT - HIS FATHER AND UNCLE WENT TO NEWINGTON !!

His Uncle, the late John Luani, was a tribal chief in Tonga and a senior member of the Tongan Govt and played a major role in Newington's relationship with the Kingdom

 

[barbarian]

I recall a time when lifting in lineouts was against the laws of the game. The Saffers were very good at circumventing this law. The laws were changed to legitimise this cheating. Come the professional era and surprise 15 years later, the young generation know nothing about the tall timber actually jumping unsupported.

Passing the ball off the ground was once illegal, as was the hooker having a foot in the field of play when feeding the lineout. Don't get me started on ahat the halfback gets away with nowdays.

So apparently scholarships are apparently against some arcane GPS rule. It is also apparently against ISA rules. Don't know about CAS. Who cares.

Change the rules and move on. Will the sun suddenly rise in the West if Schools are allowed to officially offer scholarships?

Rugby is now a legitimate profession, and clubs are now a business. League and club scouts circle like vultures around talented players keen for signatures.

Whether a kid is at a particular school because he is perceived to be good at rugby is unimportant. Even less if they have a brown skin.

We should rejoice that kids with rugby skills are playing footy at a level commensurate with their abilities. If some other entity apart from the parents are prepared to pay the school fees for that child then so what. I don't care.
If the mungoballers are prepared to front up with $, then that is their business decision and they must justify this to their board. GPS fees are not cheap.

Disagree. Comparing the GPS system with rugby itself is invalid because rugby is merely a game, yet schooling is something completely different and far more serious. And that is what we are talking about here- its not about what happens on the field, but the values that these schools seek to uphold, and whether importing is in line with those values.

You have ignored the reason why the GPS have banned sporting scholarships in the first place. The goal of these schools is to educate, and part of that is to teach boys that sport is very valuable for teamwork and physical health but ultimately just a game. Bringing in boys purely for their contribution to the 1st XV goes against this teaching entirely, giving the message that Saturday sport is something vastly important and worth spending $1000s to win. See the contradiction?

To be honest I cannot see the problem of giving out a few scholarships in year 7 or 9 for promising athletes, as long as they embrace the culture of the school. As some have said, it gives a valuable opportunity to a less fortunate family. However, bringing in 5-10 boys in year 11 or 12, as schools like Kings have done in the past (think Daniel Conn, Daniel Halangahu etc) certainly goes against the culture that these schools are trying to maintain.

 

[supporter]

To be honest I cannot see the problem of giving out a few scholarships in year 7 or 9 for promising athletes, as long as they embrace the culture of the school. As some have said, it gives a valuable opportunity to a less fortunate family.

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Thanks Barbarian and appreciate your comment.

 

[I like to watch]

And that is what we are talking about here- its not about what happens on the field, but the values that these schools seek to uphold, and whether importing is in line with those values.

You have ignored the reason why the GPS have banned sporting scholarships in the first place. The goal of these schools is to educate, and part of that is to teach boys that sport is very valuable for teamwork and physical health but ultimately just a game. Bringing in boys purely for their contribution to the 1st XV goes against this teaching entirely, giving the message that Saturday sport is something vastly important and worth spending $1000s to win.

Barbarian, I agree with your points but not your conclusions.
The ideals are valid, only if they are upheld. When the School does not adhere to these ideals, then the message is quite clearly the reverse of what is intended.
Further, it demonstrates that it is OK, to take shortcuts, to fudge a little, to bend or break the rules.
Nobody can think this is a good message to be sending.
I have no issues with Kids receiving Free schooling, I don't really care whether they join in year 7 or 11.
My issue is with the Schools that are clearly cheating the system.
Either change the rules or enforce them.I would be happy either way.

 

[barbarian]

I think that is a very fair point. The problem is it is so hard to prove, and unless a school directly admits to it then not much can be done. Hence it needs to be self-enforced by each school, but as we have seen that does not always work.

 

[WB3]

Lets say it one more time: LUANI IS NOT AN IMPORT - HIS FATHER AND UNCLE WENT TO NEWINGTON !!

His Uncle, the late John Luani, was a tribal chief in Tonga and a senior member of the Tongan Govt and played a major role in Newington's relationship with the Kingdom

I said nothing about imports, I just supported the bloke that said New developed him. I'm in no position to comment on schools scholarship policies and so I've decided to say nothing I can't substantiate. Please read the post again and then take a deep breath.

 

[Louise Brooks]

I don't want to weigh into the scholarship discussion, but I agree that Luani is a MUCH improved player this year - last year he was an OK 2nds level player and this year he was a machine. New need to take some credit for that.

Newington and the Wests Tigers.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Are you expecting all parents to sign a statutory declaration that all school fees will be paid by the parents only, and no other third party (Old Boys association, RL Club, Family Trust, Grandparents, Business group, church group etc) are contributing to the school fees?

Would you deny a child who is sponsored into a certain school by a third party the right to play rugby with that school, because his parents are not paying all the bills?

As is becoming apparent certain "imports"/"Scholarships" are nothing to do with the school actively recruiting those boys, but RL clubs or even RU clubs, are paying part or all of the fees as part of the deal to attract and keep high performing lads within their stable for future Toyota Cup, or Rugby Colts teams.

Do you expect a Principal to reject an enrollment application of a boy at Years 8-11, until he performs some due diligence on the source of the school fees?

I know of plenty of boys who change schools in senior college, for a variety of reasons.
Do you think that these transferees should have to sit out a stand down period before they are eligible for First XV (or 16A's) teams, like IRB rules where a player wants to represent a second country?

This stand down would obviously have to be undertaken after an independent party appointed by AAGPS has confirmed the source of the school fees for that transferee is derived entirely from parental income and no other source.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Newington and the Wests Tigers.

"It takes a village to bring up a child."

There would have been plenty of other influences, beyond the Tigers and his school, who have contributed to this boys development.

I say good on him for rising to the top level, and long may he play uninjured to give himself and the punters pleasure from watching him ply his skills.

Just wish I was as good as he obviously is, way back when I was his age.

 

[Torn Hammy]

I agree with Barbarian.

Education is the main game at this age. My observation is that the kids getting money for their football prowess are tanking their studies. Is this the norm? The argument that these kids get a good education is only valid if they are interested in persuing one. This is a particular problem with outside sponsors such as the Tigers as they dont want their investments complicating things with serious tertiary study.

 

[barbarian]

Are you expecting all parents to sign a starutory declaration that all school fees will be paid by the parents only, and no other third party (Old Boys association, RL Club, Family Trust, Grandparents, Business group, church group etc) are contributing to the school fees?

Would you deny a child who is sponsored into a certain school by a third party the right to play rugby with that school, because his parents are not paying all the bills?

As is becoming apparent certain "imports"/"Scholarships" are nothing to do with the school actively recruiting those boys, but RL clubs or even RU clubs, are paying part or all of the fees as part of the deal to attract and keep high performing lads within their stable for future Toyota Cup, or Rugby Colts teams.

Do you expect a Principal to reject an enrollment application of a boy at Years 8-11, until he performs some due diligence on the source of the school fees?

I know of plenty of boys who change schools in senior college, for a variety of reasons.
Do you think that these transferees should have to sit out a stand down period before they are eligible for First XV (or 16A's) teams, like IRB rules where a player wants to represent a second country?

This stand down would obviously have to be undertaken after an independent party appointed by AAGPS has confirmed the source of the school fees for that transferee is derived entirely from parental income and no other source.

This is a different case. If a boy comes up the waiting list and then is accepted through the proper channels then thats fine. If he turns out to be Jonah Lomu, great. And it doesn't matter who pays the fees. But if a school looks at the waiting list and knocks off 7 or 8 little Johnnys for little Jonah then something is wrong.

That is the problem with this whole debate- it is littered with grey areas and really should be looked at on a case by case basis, because importing is fairly rare in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Bowside]

Barbarian you speak alot of sense. Rather than ban it, it should be regulated in a way which works out best for the kid.

Schools need to take a long hard look at the values they suposedly teach and apply them to this situation. Give the scholarships to the most needy, and not just poor kids, but kids who have lost parents or have had a hard time growing up. Give them out when the kid is in grade 7 or 8 so he actually gets a good shot at improving his situation, rather then moving to the school for senior to play rugby on a saturday and sit in prevoc maths or rugby studies during the week and fuck around.

Cause the latter is what we have now, and while it works out for some blokes, for others it just builds up there ego and when they dont make it in rugby they have nothing to fall back on.

 

[Lee Grant]

Just bringing this to near the top of the Grassroots page 1 because someone has started a new GPS Sydney thread.

I did this instead of starting a new one so that people are able to read what others have written on the subject before. Therefore it may make them pause before posting. One can always hope.

Thank you.

 

[barbarian]

On this subject, the GPS have just passed a rule stating that unless a boy is present/enrolled on the first day of term 1 then they cannot represent that school in any GPS sport for that year (ie 1sts and 2nds). This probably would apply more to the summer sports (would mean new boys can't suddenly rock into the 1sts Cricket or Bball), but would also prevent very late arrivals playing GPS rugby. A good rule IMO.

 

[Doc]

On this subject, the GPS have just passed a rule stating that unless a boy is present/enrolled on the first day of term 1 then they cannot represent that school in any GPS sport for that year (ie 1sts and 2nds). This probably would apply more to the summer sports (would mean new boys can't suddenly rock into the 1sts Cricket or Bball), but would also prevent very late arrivals playing GPS rugby. A good rule IMO.

I agree a good move. Still won't prevent that situation reported in the papers up in Qld this year, where a boy was enrolled at a GPS for term 4 in 2009, despite being enrolled and completing his year 12 studies at another school (where he was also school captain I believe) ie he clearly ws at the other school.