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School sporting scholarships/recruitment

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
One thing I find interesting with Scots is that when I went to high school in the mid-late '90s, Scots was going through a period of poor academic results and general poor performance across the school.

They infamously won the GPS rugby title in 1993 in their centenary supposedly with the help of several rugby scholarship holders.

Most of the private schools use the same scholarship exam but sometime in the early 90s I believe, they started their own scholarship exam and offered scholarships in advance of the other schools with a cut off point before other offers were made. They offered a large number of academic scholarships (and far more full scholarships) than other similar private schools.

I don't know how this compares to other schools (and I didn't go to Scots but do know far more about it than most schools) but it seems that there has been a pattern of trying to recruit their way to success (or out of trouble) through offering scholarships for at least 20 years.
 

fsrugby

Frank Nicholson (4)
Dear Dodgyknee

I would like to clarify some of my thoughts for you – thoughts that a number of other people in this forum – but more importantly many teachers, parents and students at these schools may agree with.

This is not anti Scots or New – I think it is fantastic that some of the traditional GPS rugby minnows are winning the GPS comp. I love it that Joeys and Kings are not currently leading the pack – under ‘fair’ circumstances, I would think it was great that New have won 3 of the last 4. Just consider that New have only won 9 titles in 121 years – 3 of which have come in the last 4! And Scots just 6 in 120 years. I think it is fantastic that Joeys are currently in their longest ever ‘no Title’ streak of 6 years. (Sorry all Joeys boys!)

This in no way should be taken as a criticism of any boy (or his parents) who has been offered and accepted a Sporting Scholarship – who would say No!! I know many of these boys, all of whom are quality kids. Once they are at the School they should not be discriminated against in any way – every student at these Schools should be treated the same and given the same opportunities and level of guidance and care.

Boys who arrive at the School in years 9, 10 & 11 should be given the same opportunities to make 1st grade in any sport – year 7 boys should not be given preference. Many GPS Schools have a long history of full fee paying late ‘enrollers’ – I am sure there are many reasons for this - a money issue, and for boarders it might also be that some parents are more ‘comfortable’ when a boy is 14/15 (not 12/13) etc.

I personally have no major problem with Scots high performance Sport Centre – If a school had the best Maths department in the world, would any of us have a problem with it? I will say however that I have heard that some ‘psychologists’ have suggested that introducing this to young men, can have its negatives – As this is hearsay and as I know nothing of these ‘issues’ myself, I will err on the side of thinking that in the main this ‘Centre’ is a good thing – not a bad thing. I also don’t mind that they source and employ the best coaches – I hope they search for the best English teachers – is it any different?

Many GPS schools have been breaking the no Sporting scholarship rules for decades (ironically started apparently by Grammar in the 50’s!). In the past it appears that collectively the Schools have turned a blind eye to this, if the number of Scholarship boys (Rugby) was 1, 2 or 3 a team.

However – the problem........

Remember the Schools obligation is to the boys who are currently Students, not FUTURE students – the obligation is to nurture, develop and to treat them with common decency etc etc. They have an obligation to lead by example – to follow rules and to act with high moral standards.

Therefore when Schools go to NSW representative sporting carnivals and identify and target the boys who are the best of the best, and then offer them free tuition you have a problem – When they do this (or similar) not once but more than a dozen times (Newington Rugby 2013) or more than half a dozen times (Scots basketball 2013) you have a huge problem. One Rugby player was targeted by Scots and Newington, both Schools did their best to tell him they were the best, showering him and his parents with attention etc etc. The whole thing is just sickening.

GPS rules rightly or wrongly say no Sporting Scholarships – if you are a member accordingly you should follow the rules. I personally would be happy with the old ‘unofficial’ situation of 1, 2 or 3 (Rugby) – I also have a preference that these Scholarship boys arrive in year 7 not later. Others I know will have a different view. But currently the number is 0 - a number previously agreed to by New & Scots.

Do I need to outline to you why parachuting in almost whole teams is so offensive? And I know you might think it is just unproven rumour – But I can assure you it is FACT. Newington Rugby 1sts 2013 had 2 year 7 boys in the team – all the others were paratroopers – only one of the paratroopers was full fee – not the fault of any of these paratroopers I stress.

Boys at the School know who is a Freebie Paratrooper and who isn’t – they readily accept losing their spot to a full fee paying late comer – mentally however to know that you have been denied virtually any chance of reaching the sporting ‘pinnacle’ because your School ‘cheated’ by ‘Scouting’ numerous Freebies at a State tournaments etc is just extremely painful and blatantly unjust. I know I will now get the normal response - am I a disgruntled affected parent – NO, or just tell the boys to toughen up (how ridiculous!). But nothing will change my view that it just an atrocious way to treat the very people that you are meant to nurture and develop.

Boys who do make 1st grade in any GPS sport, generally at the end of the year end up better sportsman – playing in the best comp, obviously leads to improvement. In addition to these Schools being a d**khead to their existing students, the appalling treatment is then compounded by the school denying them the opportunity that so many of them so rightly deserved.

If it continues, it will in addition to the above, potentially kill the comp – Shore who refuse to enter the arms race, nearly forfeited their last game this year against New – It is no longer just the thought of being flogged every week, but in this day and age the ‘duty of care’ concerns are paramount. And to those that will now respond by saying – well that’s dismantle GPS rugby and create another Super Comp – please start your own forum – it will never happen – nor should it. GPS is not here to nurture Rugby – it is here to nurture and educate the boys within. No School will want to walk away from the benefits GPS offers, both to the boys and to the School itself.

I could say more....
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
Many GPS schools have been breaking the no Sporting scholarship rules for decades (ironically started apparently by Grammar in the 50’s!). In the past it appears that collectively the Schools have turned a blind eye to this, if the number of Scholarship boys (Rugby) was 1, 2 or 3 a team.
They must have had shit house talent scouts then.
1 HOTR - 1955
1 Lawrence Campbell Oratory - is that sport?
No rugby
Cricket?
rifle shooting?
Athletics?
I'll check them when I get home!
 

fpiglet

Darby Loudon (17)
Dear Dodgyknee


This is not anti Scots or New – I think it is fantastic that some of the traditional GPS rugby minnows are winning the GPS comp. I love it that Joeys and Kings are not currently leading the pack – under ‘fair’ circumstances, I would think it was great that New have won 3 of the last 4. Just consider that New have only won 9 titles in 121 years – 3 of which have come in the last 4! And Scots just 6 in 120 years. I think it is fantastic that Joeys are currently in their longest ever ‘no Title’ streak of 6 years. (Sorry all Joeys boys!)

...

I personally have no major problem with Scots high performance Sport Centre – If a school had the best Maths department in the world, would any of us have a problem with it? I will say however that I have heard that some ‘psychologists’ have suggested that introducing this to young men, can have its negatives – As this is hearsay and as I know nothing of these ‘issues’ myself, I will err on the side of thinking that in the main this ‘Centre’ is a good thing – not a bad thing. I also don’t mind that they source and employ the best coaches – I hope they search for the best English teachers – is it any different?

Many GPS schools have been breaking the no Sporting scholarship rules for decades (ironically started apparently by Grammar in the 50’s!). In the past it appears that collectively the Schools have turned a blind eye to this, if the number of Scholarship boys (Rugby) was 1, 2 or 3 a team.

However – the problem....


....Boys who do make 1st grade in any GPS sport, generally at the end of the year end up better sportsman – playing in the best comp, obviously leads to improvement. In addition to these Schools being a d**khead to their existing students, the appalling treatment is then compounded by the school denying them the opportunity that so many of them so rightly deserved.

If it continues, it will in addition to the above, potentially kill the comp – Shore who refuse to enter the arms race, nearly forfeited their last game this year against New – It is no longer just the thought of being flogged every week, but in this day and age the ‘duty of care’ concerns are paramount. And to those that will now respond by saying – well that’s dismantle GPS rugby and create another Super Comp – please start your own forum – it will never happen – nor should it. GPS is not here to nurture Rugby – it is here to nurture and educate the boys within. No School will want to walk away from the benefits GPS offers, both to the boys and to the School itself.

I could say more..
Sad but true.... not since 1908 has there been a rugby drought at Joeys.... don't you all rush to offer me tissues (sniff....) Moving on.

Don't have a problem with high performance centres or the best coaching staff. No reason why coaching staff shouldn't be a professional as teachers
and you get the best you can. If the best coaches or teachers come cheaper than others than you get a great deal and that's great. Everybody and every student should benefit from the best tuition and coaching.

To paraphrase "Pirates of the Carribean" the problem seems to be that over the years the pirate 'code' of bursaries or 'sport' scholarships has now been interpreted as being more like, well... "guidelines" and once that happened.... well, what you get is piracy.
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
One thing I find interesting with Scots is that when I went to high school in the mid-late '90s, Scots was going through a period of poor academic results and general poor performance across the school.

They infamously won the GPS rugby title in 1993 in their centenary supposedly with the help of several rugby scholarship holders.

Most of the private schools use the same scholarship exam but sometime in the early 90s I believe, they started their own scholarship exam and offered scholarships in advance of the other schools with a cut off point before other offers were made. They offered a large number of academic scholarships (and far more full scholarships) than other similar private schools.

I don't know how this compares to other schools (and I didn't go to Scots but do know far more about it than most schools) but it seems that there has been a pattern of trying to recruit their way to success (or out of trouble) through offering scholarships for at least 20 years.
According to Dr Lambert, 19% of students at TSC are on bursaries, in addition to those on academic or music scholarships. This tends to confirm your impressions.
 

fsrugby

Frank Nicholson (4)
They must have had shit house talent scouts then.
1 HOTR - 1955
1 Lawrence Campbell Oratory - is that sport?
No rugby
Cricket?
rifle shooting?
Athletics?
I'll check them when I get home!

If its true as told, then maybe Cricket (4 titles in 6 years) and maybe Rugby (2 x 2ndXV titles) - back in the days when Cricket was almost as prestigious as Rugby! Maybe poor Scouts - or maybe as High can relate bringing in 2 or 3 great Rugby players doesn't help, if you don't have reasonable talent around them (Sorry all High boys!). Either way, I thought it was a good tale! Happy to say I wasn't around in those years.
 

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
If its true as told, then maybe Cricket (4 titles in 6 years) and maybe Rugby (2 x 2ndXV titles) - back in the days when Cricket was almost as prestigious as Rugby! Maybe poor Scouts - or maybe as High can relate bringing in 2 or 3 great Rugby players doesn't help, if you don't have reasonable talent around them (Sorry all High boys!). Either way, I thought it was a good tale! Happy to say I wasn't around in those years.

Cricket 1958 (Including Alan McGilvray's son) & 1959
Rifle Shooting 53, 57, 58
Athletics 1954
Debating 1951 (a sport?)
So i think whatever tale you were told was wrong.
 

Braveheart81

Will Genia (78)
Staff member
Cricket 1958 (Including Alan McGilvray's son) & 1959
Rifle Shooting 53, 57, 58
Athletics 1954
Debating 1951 (a sport?)
So i think whatever tale you were told was wrong.


Grammar has only won debating in 1951? Wow.

What about chess? I bet you've been stacking that team with scholarship boys for decades.
 

I like to watch

David Codey (61)
Ban is still on. Lambert refuted the evidence presented by the other headmasters. Dr Wright from Shore spoke about, "Our responsibility as school masters is to work with the clay we are given and to make the best possible outcome for our boys."
Dr Wright is very impressive.
No coincidence that his School has the longest and earliest wait lists for aspiring students.
 

Quick Hands

David Wilson (68)
Ban is still on. Lambert refuted the evidence presented by the other headmasters. Dr Wright from Shore spoke about, "Our responsibility as school masters is to work with the clay we are given and to make the best possible outcome for our boys."
Quite a basic premise. A pity it doesn't come naturally to some of those in charge of these schools.
 

wreckless

Bob Loudon (25)
Ban is still on. Lambert refuted the evidence presented by the other headmasters. Dr Wright from Shore spoke about, "Our responsibility as school masters is to work with the clay we are given and to make the best possible outcome for our boys."

Lambert sounds like a dick!
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Muglair

Alfred Walker (16)
Well, it seems that the crisis has moved to phase 2.

What would Sir Humphrey Appleby GCB, KCB, MVO, MA(Oxon) do now?

Bernard Woolley: What if the Prime Minister insists we help them?
Sir Humphrey Appleby: Then we follow the four-stage strategy.
Bernard Woolley: What's that?
Sir Richard Wharton: Standard Foreign Office response in a time of crisis.
Sir Richard Wharton: In stage one we say nothing is going to happen.
Sir Humphrey Appleby: Stage two, we say something may be about to happen, but we should do nothing about it.
Sir Richard Wharton: In stage three, we say that maybe we should do something about it, but there's nothing we *can* do.
Sir Humphrey Appleby: Stage four, we say maybe there was something we could have done, but it's too late now.
 

fsrugby

Frank Nicholson (4)
More heads meeting 'rumours' (I was not present!!!)

Basketball will be a one round comp - last Saturdays first round is now a trial, as are the next 3/4 games - I gather the logic is to give more time for resolution and for Lambert to come into line

The gang of 5 will decide individually if they play Scots - this sounds like some progress for Scots?

Lambert didn't table the whole of his 'independent' report - just parts of it - some serious questions asked about the report and how 'independent' it really was. It provides a number of just over 200 on 'bursary's' - which is a bit lower than the percentage that was provided previously. I gather Lambert didn't impress - I would think it would be hard to impress if you are arguing the impossible!
 
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