School sporting scholarships/recruitment

[CTPE]

Don't be fooled - Grammar will provide pseudo sporting scholarships, but the kid needs to be beyond brainy as well - it’s just that maybe their sport focus is not rugby! High - selective state high school - so you either qualify to attend along egalitarian lines or not; when the old boys kicked up a stink several years ago for the demise of the rugby program, the OBs were labelled as racists.

Between 1963 and 1973 High won 4 first XV premierships and in the same time frame Grammar won two. So between them they won more than 50% of the available titles. In the near 40 years since neither have done anything. Why play in a competition if you are not going commit energy and resources to it?

 

[Man on the hill]

becasue then they run the risk of exiting GPS!

 

[gtjack]

becasue then they run the risk of exiting GPS!

GPS isn't some relegation competition. Yes, the best schools compete in GPS, but this is more because of their age, prestige and position in society - it's not like English soccer. In the almost 100 year history of the Queensland GPS, only one school has left the association (this being St Laurence's in the early days because they didn't have a turf wicket and a rugby oval or something like that). That being said, their are schools in AIC or ISA(?), or even some state schools, who are just as good in some years, just GPS schools are consistently above this level through a number of reasons, one of the largest ones being resources.

However Old Boys' Associations don't usually allow poor results to happen. The best example of this is BGS, a remarkable turnaround from a team that lost 103-0 2 years ago. While this may be completely new players, there has to be some form of structural change for these changes to happen.

 

[light]

Brisbane Grammar doesn't offer sporting scholarships?

Wow spewn, open your eyes. Maybe they don't call them scholarships, just financial assistance. Admittedly, BGS historically hasn't been a bigger player in the school scholarship debate, but recently they have jumped on board knowing full well that if they don't, they will be left behind. Find me an Australian Schoolboy rugby union player at any QLD GPS school and I will leave this thread forever. We all know the BGS boy I'm talking about, if you don't well than you have no idea what you're arguing about.

 

[Spewn]

I was talking Sydney Grammar.

Re BGS, as an old boy, it was disappointing to see that it had gone downhill in rugby recently but I understand that that is being remedied. It would have to surely with Brian Short as headmaster.

 

[Man on the hill]

GPS isn't some relegation competition. Yes, the best schools compete in GPS, but this is more because of their age, prestige and position in society - it's not like English soccer. In the almost 100 year history of the Queensland GPS, only one school has left the association (this being St Laurence's in the early days because they didn't have a turf wicket and a rugby oval or something like that). That being said, their are schools in AIC or ISA(?), or even some state schools, who are just as good in some years, just GPS schools are consistently above this level through a number of reasons, one of the largest ones being resources.



However Old Boys' Associations don't usually allow poor results to happen. The best example of this is BGS, a remarkable turnaround from a team that lost 103-0 2 years ago. While this may be completely new players, there has to be some form of structural change for these changes to happen.

This convo wasGPS Sydney+ when I say "exit" - fully aware that no relegation exists, however, participation is across the board, not what suits each school - therefore being given the boot would be an option.

 

[Victorian Rugby]

I strongly believe that each and every one of us has one special talent, but most of us never realise our maximum potential in that talent.

I also strongly believe that for a talent to be truly developed, it needs a support environment that believes strongly in fostering the talent.

If we are talking about schools, then personally I do not care if the school is in it for glory, or as a business decision, or any other reason that appears cavalier in nature. I would just be happy that they are giving the child the opportunity to be the best he can be, in an environment where they can strive to unleash the beast which may be chained elsewhere.

If a school can offer music scholarships to talented musicians, or academic scholarships to budding Einsteins, what is wrong with giving the next potential Wallaby a leg up too?

 

[Man on the hill]

All very true & honorable, but, and it's a HUGE but, the charters of the school systems involved specifically prohibit sporting scholarships!

 

[northman91]

Having read the past few pages I would like to voice my opinion and a possible solution. I do not believe in schools giving out sporting scholarships as it is detrimental to the morale of the year group and in general the school community.
Private schools have the resources to thoroughly develop players and guide them in the right direction to being a great rugby team.

For those people in this thread that believe sporting scholarships should be allowed to give gifted athletes a "leg up", the problem that we're missing out on is the lack of funding by the ARU.
The ARU needs to promote State Schools Rugby System, most notably the Waratah Shield, and also delegate more money to the club rugby system. With more funds being placed into other areas other than the GPS/CAS/ISA schools, it will allow the wide range of CHS schools to develop their rugby.

On a more ethical note, I have heard rumours that in the 13A's rugby at Newington this year, theres is a boy on a scholarship over 100kg. That means that some players will be tackling a player that is the weight of a Super 15 player. Its dangerous.
In 2009 Newington gave a scholarship to a boy that entered in year 11, Ben Volavola, he was over age and as a result in his final year at school, he had to play 1st Grade at West Harbour.

Schools giving out scholarships creates un-level playing field and is fair to say as "cheating". In the GPS, Riverview, Shore, Grammar dont give out scholarships and they are vary successful on all sporting fields (except for grammar). Shore and Riverview form the nucleus of there 1st XV in the 13A's and work with those group of boys for the following 6 years in developing and enhancing their skills.

I feel bad for the boys at other schools who play in the A's the whole way through to find out that in year 11 and 12 someone from Endeavour Sports High has taken your place in the 1st XV. It lowers the morale of the players and the year group.

GPS rugby is about playing with passion and pride and playing for your mates. Not about buying the best team so they you can "win" the competition in the 150th anniversary of your school.

For those that believe sporting scholarships should be allowed... thats not the solution to giving talented athletes a leg up, the CHS schools system needs developing and more emphasis on the Waratah shield needs to be taken.

 

[kiwi playing in Oz]

You make some good points there northman. At the end of the day to be able to play outstanding rugby with skill is a talent and gift for some kids just as being able to play a musical instrument or academic brilliance. Our kids are going to be upset in situations where they've worked hard to achieve something only to have someone come along and 'pip them at the post' so to speak. It happens in almost every situation in life nowadays so good opportunity to start preparing for the adult world! Oh and just because the kid weighs the size of a super 15 player doesn't mean he has the knowledge of a super 15 player. If someone his own age can't tackle him then those kids should look at player soccer?

 

[random2]

You make some good points there northman. At the end of the day to be able to play outstanding rugby with skill is a talent and gift for some kids just as being able to play a musical instrument or academic brilliance. Our kids are going to be upset in situations where they've worked hard to achieve something only to have someone come along and 'pip them at the post' so to speak. It happens in almost every situation in life nowadays so good opportunity to start preparing for the adult world! Oh and just because the kid weighs the size of a super 15 player doesn't mean he has the knowledge of a super 15 player. If someone his own age can't tackle him then those kids should look at player soccer?

the kid is a monster, scored 9 tries against shore its just far to hard to tackle someone twice your size when these kids are only 13 years old. although when i saw him play joeys he was shut down very well by a kid about 70kg so its not impossible, just very hard.

 

[kiwi playing in Oz]

the kid is a monster, scored 9 tries against shore its just far to hard to tackle someone twice your size when these kids are only 13 years old. although when i saw him play joeys he was shut down very well by a kid about 70kg so its not impossible, just very hard.

Our son has to face similar opposition so we 'borrowed' some of his older heavier cousins so that we could teach him how to tackle kids that size without getting injured. It works but if all else fails swinging on the jersey eventually gets them lol

 

[bellcheese]

On a more ethical note, I have heard rumours that in the 13A's rugby at Newington this year, theres is a boy on a scholarship over 100kg. That means that some players will be tackling a player that is the weight of a Super 15 player. Its dangerous.
In 2009 Newington gave a scholarship to a boy that entered in year 11, Ben Volavola, he was over age and as a result in his final year at school, he had to play 1st Grade at West Harbour.

Schools giving out scholarships creates un-level playing field and is fair to say as "cheating". In the GPS, Riverview, Shore, Grammar dont give out scholarships and they are vary successful on all sporting fields (except for grammar). Shore and Riverview form the nucleus of there 1st XV in the 13A's and work with those group of boys for the following 6 years in developing and enhancing their skills.

I feel bad for the boys at other schools who play in the A's the whole way through to find out that in year 11 and 12 someone from Endeavour Sports High has taken your place in the 1st XV. It lowers the morale of the players and the year group.

Couldn't agree with you more. I remember the sudden difference between teams in year 7 and later in year 10 or 11 when new players "appeared" from out of nowhere.
The disappointment felt by boys who had played in the As and hoped to play in the 1st XV was palpable but the parents who wanted the school to win at any cost didn't give a ****.
Vicarious gratification through the performance of kids is sad, sad, sad.

 

[smokinjoe]

Anyone know who won the battle of the cheque books today between Newington and Trinity?

 

[sulidoror]

trinity 14 new 15; 2 tries all including penalty try to trin.

 

[sulidoror]

...possible solution to sydney high problem - westfield and/or endeavour etc becomes sydney boys high westfield campus.......would love to hear the squeals of protest from the rest of the gps.....

 

[baldingwingforward]

...possible solution to sydney high problem - westfield and/or endeavour etc becomes sydney boys high westfield campus.......would love to hear the squeals of protest from the rest of the gps.....

Most of the squeals would come from Newington... as that is one of their favourite recruiting grounds.

As to Westfield or Endeavour playing in the GPS - they would go alright but they really aren't that good at Union. League would be a different matter though.

 

[The Blindside]

On a more ethical note, I have heard rumours that in the 13A's rugby at Newington this year, theres is a boy on a scholarship over 100kg. That means that some players will be tackling a player that is the weight of a Super 15 player. Its dangerous.

Point of order. The boy is a very good rugby player but he is not on a scholarship. He is a full fee payer. His older brother also attends the school. You shouldn't assume that all Pacific Islanders are on scholarship.

 

[smithcentral]

Point of order. The boy is a very good rugby player but he is not on a scholarship. He is a full fee payer. His older brother also attends the school. You shouldn't assume that all Pacific Islanders are on scholarship.

And while he's a big boy "over 100kgs" could be a tad exaggerated......

 

[Stickybeak]

Point of order. The boy is a very good rugby player but he is not on a scholarship. He is a full fee payer. His older brother also attends the school. You shouldn't assume that all Pacific Islanders are on scholarship.

I think I know who you are - you've said exactly the same thing to me: how come that brother didn't go all the way?