School sporting scholarships/recruitment

[Stickybeak]

This is a very naive view of the NSW GPS system. TAS does not compete in rugby, cricket or rowing and yet remains a GPS school. St Pats at Goulburn was once a GPS school as was All Saints at Bathurst. It is interesting to have a look at the Australian Schools team for this year - I haven't done the figures but my strong impression is that Queensland is eclipsing NSW in providing numbers to this team, which may not be surprising or noteworthy given that I understand they won the national tournament. If you really believe that the NSW GPS schools are buying premierships consider this: Joeys who have the most recent strong tradition in rugby are average this year; Scots pride themselves on their rugby but they win few premierships; same with Riverview - they have won some recently but historically they are very weak. Newington do not look like winning the premiership this year and most of the bleating in this thread concerns them. If these schools are recruiting on rugby scholarships then the talent spotters should be sacked....either that or wake up to the fact that the 12, 14 or 15 year old super star is unlikely to be in the mix when he's 18+.
The real point made elsewhere in this thread is: every boy who plays rugby should be playing for enjoyment and playing to win - if he has no chance of winning then he's probably not going to enjoy it much. Thus, for the good of the game, all schools should be roughly equal in standard. If all the schools worried about their HSC results then (a) the rugby and rowing comps would be much more even (b) the ARU would be stuffed because THEY DO DO ABSOLUTELY ZERO DEVELOPMENT!!!!!

 

[Lindommer]

This is a very naive view of the NSW GPS system. TAS does not compete in rugby, cricket or rowing and yet remains a GPS school. St Pats at Goulburn was once a GPS school as was All Saints at Bathurst.

The former St Pats at Goulburn and Bathurst's All Saints' College were NEVER part of the AAGPS in New South Wales. There were a number of meetings in the late 19th century involving a multitude of schools with a view to forming some sort of schools' association; St Pats and ASC attended those meetings but were not included in the final membership of the newly-formed AAGPS. It's interesting to note Cooerwull Academy from Lithgow attended at least one of those meetings but also didn't make the final cut. Is it possible the out-of-Sydney schools decided they couldn't commit to the activities envisaged by the AAGPS?

Cooerwull Academy had an interesting history: it was a Presbyterian school with a wealthy benefactor and catered for sons of the well-off central NSW graziers of Scottish extraction. It would seem the staff were mostly loyal British Empire men as a lot of them enlisted in the AIF during WWI leading to a drastic shortage of teachers at the school and its subsequent closure. The Catholic church eventually bought the old Cooerwull Academy and it now happily educates children there as LaSalle Academy.

For St Pats and All Saints' (and Cooerwull Academy) to ever refer to themselves as having been "GPS" schools is taking a somewhat slanted view of the correct history of the formation of the AAGPS in New South Wales.

 

[Stickybeak]

The former St Pats at Goulburn and Bathurst's All Saints' College were NEVER part of the AAGPS in New South Wales. There were a number of meetings in the late 19th century involving a multitude of schools with a view to forming some sort of schools' association; St Pats and ASC attended those meetings but were not included in the final membership of the newly-formed AAGPS. It's interesting to note Cooerwull Academy from Lithgow attended at least one of those meetings but also didn't make the final cut. Is it possible the out-of-Sydney schools decided they couldn't commit to the activities envisaged by the AAGPS?

Cooerwull Academy had an interesting history: it was a Presbyterian school with a wealthy benefactor and catered for sons of the well-off central NSW graziers of Scottish extraction. It would seem the staff were mostly loyal British Empire men as a lot of them enlisted in the AIF during WWI leading to a drastic shortage of teachers at the school and its subsequent closure. The Catholic church eventually bought the old Cooerwull Academy and it now happily educates children there as LaSalle Academy.

For St Pats and All Saints' (and Cooerwull Academy) to ever refer to themselves as having been "GPS" schools is taking a somewhat slanted view of the correct history of the formation of the AAGPS in New South Wales.

My source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AAGPS
Yours?

 

[dermo]

I have been reliably informed that Newington will be taking on 6 new imports next year in yr 11

 

[angrydog]

Stickybeak you are 100% correct in reference to the original members of the AAGPS. Lindommer, reference to publications from Joeys centenary year and a history of St Pats Goulburn confirm this fact. Cooerwull and also Stannies Bathurst were there too bu,t all four schools had short lived lives in the competition, presumably due to the tyranny of distance. This IS the correct history of the AAGPS.

 

[angrydog]

On a different note, I have found this thread very interesting to read. I did not attend a GPS school but have followed the rugby in that competition for a long time as a fan only. I am keen to know if anybody on this thread has any knowledge of what the actual competing schools feel about the business of offering scholarships for rugby players and if there are any plans or moevements to remove the practice so as to level the playing field again.

As an outsider it seems strange and even unlikely that schools would actually feel any pride in 'buying' premierships from year to year. Given the history of the competition and reputations that were forged over so many years by the different schools I would think that it would be a more postive experience for the entire school to win using 'its own cattle.' The schools that dont offer scholarships and have fallen by the wayside must feel very dissapointed for their boys who can no longer offer a serious threat to competiton and in th case of SBHS have basically fallen of the face of the earth and compete in inferior competitions. SBSH and Grammar have become an embarrasment to the competition and a match in which they and their opponentsas well the school officials must cringe before kick off in fear of the massacre that will unfold against the likes of Joeys, Kings etc.

Surely the schools within the association must be contemplating how to solve this problem that seems to be slowly eroding a great comp. Failing to do so, it would seem, will lead to either a reduced number of teams or the possibility of inviting other schools to increase the strength of competition. Personally, I have great concerns about this issue. The best solution in my opinion would be for the schools to take the intiative and remove the practice of scholarships. I am sure students and parents would like the idea so that their boys can again have a chance of playing in the 1st XV without the prospect of some one replacing them in years 11 and 12. Can anybody shed some light on this and provide accurate insight to what the schools really think of this practice?

 

[smokinjoe]

I have been reliably informed that Newington will be taking on 6 new imports next year in yr 11

A bit slow. Trinity took 6 imports in this year in year 10 to be ready for their celebratory year in 2013.

 

[pugwash]

I have been reliably informed that Newington will be taking on 6 new imports next year in yr 11

So boys change school-is there a law against that.I assume by your comment that you are saying they're all on scholarships...really I've read that in other comments ,only for it to be wrong.
Unless you have proof and can back your comments up, take them off!

 

[kiwi playing in Oz]

I have been reliably informed that Newington will be taking on 6 new imports next year in yr 11

And why shouldn't boys who possibly can't afford to go these 'private' schools not take up a scholarship? There are two pathways to higher representative rugby honours and it appears that going through and to a private school helps a boy reach that goal. Why should a boy not have the same opportunities because of lack of money? Good on those schools for offering the scholarships or whatever they call them! A benefit to the boy and a benefit to the school!

 

[dermo]

And why shouldn't boys who possibly can't afford to go these 'private' schools not take up a scholarship? There are two pathways to higher representative rugby honours and it appears that going through and to a private school helps a boy reach that goal. Why should a boy not have the same opportunities because of lack of money? Good on those schools for offering the scholarships or whatever they call them! A benefit to the boy and a benefit to the school!

Because it means they are taking away the spots of players who have been there since yr 7 working hard to make A teams, I was informed of these imports by a Newington boy in the 16 a's, and he was pissed off that Newington are importing so many players

 

[dermo]

So boys change school-is there a law against that.I assume by your comment that you are saying they're all on scholarships...really I've read that in other comments ,only for it to be wrong.
Unless you have proof and can back your comments up, take them off!

As i said, i was told by a New boy who is in yr 10, is that reliable enough for you?

 

[kiwi playing in Oz]

Because it means they are taking away the spots of players who have been there since yr 7 working hard to make A teams, I was informed of these imports by a Newington boy in the 16 a's, and he was pissed off that Newington are importing so many players

That's life isn't it? You don't reach higher honours because you've served the time you get there on merit. What is the difference of a boy on scholarship in yr 11 and one whose parents can now afford to send him to the same private school for yr 11 and 12 and happens to be good at rugby? Nothing except one can pay the full fee and one has his subsidised. Realty sucks sometimes but if my kid was offered an opportunity like that I would grab it with both hands! No disrespect intended to the poor kids who start t yr 7

 

[International Badboy]

It is not the boys fault, it is the schools

 

[pugwash]

Dermo-a yr 10 boy says there's 6 boys coming...does he also say that ALL 6 are on sporting scholarships-these are two different things,and hardly reliable.Do I now assume that every boy that starts at a GPS/CAS/ISA school in yr 11 is on a rugby payment-seriously mate get a life.
Kiwi playing in Oz-love your atitude and thoughts.Agree with you 100%.The boy who has sucked the kumera -in Dermo's example,sounds like he has already given up on even making an effort to replace the 'scholarship' boy.Sounds like he never had the ticker in the first place ,if he gives up so quickly and early.
Maybe this lad should be told a proven fact-if you play with champions you 've got a good chance of becoming a champion too!

 

[baldingwingforward]

And why shouldn't boys who possibly can't afford to go these 'private' schools not take up a scholarship?

Pretty simple answer to that one Kiwi... Because Sports scholarships are not allowed!!! So they get called all rounder scholarships, or boarding bursary or some other bs title, but everyone knows that the boy is only there to play rugby. Very damaging to the cultural fabric of the school when new boys suddenly rock up in Yr 11 and go straight in the 1st XV - usually at the expense of a boy who has been there for a number of years and done the hard yards through the A sides. Kids who have been there longer and love the school will always work harder and put their body on the line in a tough match - scholarship kids don't always have that connection with the school as they might have only been there a couple of months.

Scholarships don't mean that you will always win - just ask Kings and Scots and New.........

 

[dermo]

Dermo-a yr 10 boy says there's 6 boys coming...does he also say that ALL 6 are on sporting scholarships-these are two different things,and hardly reliable.Do I now assume that every boy that starts at a GPS/CAS/ISA school in yr 11 is on a rugby payment-seriously mate get a life.
Kiwi playing in Oz-love your atitude and thoughts.Agree with you 100%.The boy who has sucked the kumera -in Dermo's example,sounds like he has already given up on even making an effort to replace the 'scholarship' boy.Sounds like he never had the ticker in the first place ,if he gives up so quickly and early.
Maybe this lad should be told a proven fact-if you play with champions you 've got a good chance of becoming a champion too!

Fuck up ****, he said 6 new imports and dont make assumptions about my character over a forum you shit****

 

[pugwash]

Yep just as I thought mate....serious get over it,I assume that any boy can go to these schools and they don't have to get the tick of approval from you first.

 

[dermo]

Yep just as I thought mate....serious get over it,I assume that any boy can go to these schools and they don't have to get the tick of approval from you first.

your a gronk

 

[sulidoror]

That's life isn't it? You don't reach higher honours because you've served the time you get there on merit. What is the difference of a boy on scholarship in yr 11 and one whose parents can now afford to send him to the same private school for yr 11 and 12 and happens to be good at rugby? Nothing except one can pay the full fee and one has his subsidised. Realty sucks sometimes but if my kid was offered an opportunity like that I would grab it with both hands! No disrespect intended to the poor kids who start t yr 7

....ummm the point of gps/cas schools is to ensure that there ARE no poor kids who start in yr 7....lolo

 

[sulidoror]

...i think perhaps the worst effect of scholarships is that they deprive boys at other schools of deserved outcomes - case in point, in the year that scots bought their centenary premiership, high finished second, losing only to an import-enhanced scots. I watched high beat joeys at mckay and still remember one high supporter shouting "I've been waiting half my life to see this".....high boys missed out on playing in a premiership because it was a scots anniversary !!!!! on the other hand, good lesson for them in the golden rule.....who has the gold makes the rules .....