Subbies 2021

[Seagull Butler]

Our closest competitors in League don't do it, and their participation numbers are superior to ours

I wonder whether league participation numbers at an adult level could possibly have something to do with the money instead?
Subbies participation seems to have gone downhill since that little caveat was introduced.

And League does it at least in country rugby - look at Group 10 (picking this as it's my local) - you have the Group 10 itself - where clubs are meant to have Firsts, Reserves and U18's, and Midwest where you only need a First grade team. Blayney and Cowra have both pulled out of the First's competition this year.
Interestingly - Group 10 and 11 are going so "strongly" that they are combining the two competitions to keep player numbers.

 

[Pfitzy]

i don't quite understand why any of our clubs, Premier or Subbies, need so many grades, where did these arbitrary numbers come from? Why does a premier club need a 4th Grade, why does a subbies club like Mosman need a 5th grade side?

Or 6th Grade? Or 7th Grade? Or 3 teams of Colts?

It is a mystery why you'd need to do that, unless you're clinging to the belief that as long as your own patch is looked after, everything is alright.

Unfortunately this is far too common in rugby circles, and The Greater Good isn't well understood as a concept.

Our closest competitors in League don't do it, and their participation numbers are superior to ours

I wonder whether league participation numbers at an adult level could possibly have something to do with the money instead?
Subbies participation seems to have gone downhill since that little caveat was introduced.

I think in the ?5? years since Amateur status came in, it isn't as big a factor as the change in demographics. Clubs in some traditional areas are being squeezed out because a rugby-following population isn't local any more.

Throw in cheaper international travel, weekend work - becoming more and more common, events like music festivals, weddings in foreign countries, and the fact that the community simply doesn't revolve around The Club any more.

And League does it at least in country rugby - look at Group 10 (picking this as it's my local) - you have the Group 10 itself - where clubs are meant to have Firsts, Reserves and U18's, and Midwest where you only need a First grade team. Blayney and Cowra have both pulled out of the First's competition this year.

That is more about demographics than anything else - country towns are mostly on the decline as far as population goes. Throw in weekend or shift working hours and you're going to have issues getting players, volunteers, or supporters to games.

 

[Pfitzy]

League clubs in Sydney also work off a squad system for players (either paid or on win bonus etc) and have rules around who can be selected and what happens for replacement in the case of injury. It is also a much more localised competition because the system allows it to be so. Guys never have to travel more than about 30km to get from end of the competition to the other.

If you're in the squad but not selected that week, that's just the way it is. Try explaining that to some of the heroes who front up at our clubs

If I had a magic wand for Subbies, I'd make every Division limited to 3 Grades + Colts, with a Masters team as fourth grade friendlies. Localisation bonuses for player registration - subsidised by the peak body rather than charged for e.g. if you join a club within 10km of your home address, you get $50 credit on your fees from Rugby Australia.

At that point it is up to the club to keep them.

It would mean some clubs in shrinking rugby demographics would expire, but it would help many other areas take off.

 

[Heavyd]

This is all interesting stuff but no one has answered how Knox were allowed to stay in Div1 fielding only 2 teams and a colts?

 

[Seagull Butler]

That is more about demographics than anything else - country towns are mostly on the decline as far as population goes. Throw in weekend or shift working hours and you're going to have issues getting players, volunteers, or supporters to games.

Don't let anyone tell you that - the population of the Central West has been growing every year since at least 2006, and this applies also to the 20-34 yr olds which has also grown as a group. It's leading to ridiculous house prices & no rentals in those same markets.

Your comment about Weekend/Shift Work and the community not revolving around the club is more on the money me thinks.

Localisation bonuses for player registration - subsidised by the peak body rather than charged for e.g. if you join a club within 10km of your home address, you get $50 credit on your fees from Rugby Australia.

As someone who lived in Somersby, Mascot and Penrith (as well as Hunters Hill & Gladesville) while playing for Hunters, why should I get penalised for being committed to my club from last season?

 

[Pfitzy]

This is all interesting stuff but no one has answered how Knox were allowed to stay in Div1 fielding only 2 teams and a colts?

Do you honestly think anyone here has an answer to that?

I'm happy for you to wail into the void to your heart's content, but not sure it is a solution.

 

[Eyes and Ears]

If there is so much demand to play rugby at this level in Mosman, then I think the club and others like it should consider splitting into 2 clubs. I acknowledge it is a radical idea with a number of challenges.

 

[Pfitzy]

If there is so much demand to play rugby at this level in Mosman, then I think the club and others like it should consider splitting into 2 clubs. I acknowledge it is a radical idea with a number of challenges.

Was just on the Halligan Cup WhatsApp. Apparently Colleagues are looking for a 7th Grade game, having been nearly 8 Grades last week (I assume Convicts was one of them)...

Nice problem to have...

 

[Footyhead#2]

If there is so much demand to play rugby at this level in Mosman, then I think the club and others like it should consider splitting into 2 clubs. I acknowledge it is a radical idea with a number of challenges.

They already have. Their 5th & 6th Grade are playing with Barker Old Boys and will not play alongside the rest of their club for the whole season.

 

[sendit]

If there is so much demand to play rugby at this level in Mosman, then I think the club and others like it should consider splitting into 2 clubs. I acknowledge it is a radical idea with a number of challenges.

Exactly right

Imagine if all clubs had a requirement of 2 grades plus U21’s (I’d prefer U22’s), there would 100% be some short term pain but long term it would be amazing. No need to have Sydney wide competitions which will further increase participation

 

[sendit]

As someone who lived in Somersby, Mascot and Penrith (as well as Hunters Hill & Gladesville) while playing for Hunters, why should I get penalised for being committed to my club from last season?

To be fair that’s not a penalty to you, it’s an incentive to someone else

Also why would a governing body care if you are loyal to a club or you move around, doesn’t make a difference to them. If anything it should be HH subsidising your rego

 

[Pfitzy]

They already have. Their 5th & 6th Grade are playing with Barker Old Boys and will not play alongside the rest of their club for the whole season.

They only get a few opportunities to play alongside the rest of the club playing Halligan Cup anyway.

Additionally, 1 or 2 of Old Barker's games will be moved to Mosman I believe so they're not missing much.

(Note this further increases Mosman's canteen takings which will no doubt having a few guys think about moving).

 

[Pfitzy]

As someone who lived in Somersby, Mascot and Penrith (as well as Hunters Hill & Gladesville) while playing for Hunters, why should I get penalised for being committed to my club from last season?

You'd already be penalising yourself by spending all the extra on fuel and/or tolls.

That's a choice you make OR you can sign up to a club around the corner if one exists and get an incentive, like sendit states above.

 

[BundyBear]

Division 2 Round 2 Tips!

St Pats over Lindfield by 20 - Lindfields young side are goers but they will be over run by a big St Pats outfit who will be much improved from their start last week. They have scored 40 points in their last two games (Trial v Knox and R1 v Newport), and in both games the men in Black and Gold have worn their opponents down and then put the nail down in the last half. St Pats to take 1s & 2s, Lindfield to win Colts, 3s & 4s.

Hunters Hill over Epping by 45 - It is hard to see how little old Epping will keep this one close at all. I expect a somber day at Somerville for the locals as Hunters will win all grades comfortably for the 2nd week in a row.

UNSW over Barker by 25 - UNSW had little trouble with Epping last week, and should numbers be good, will have little trouble beating Barker. Expect UNSW to win all 4 grades, with Barker sneaking home in Colts.

Hills over Newport by 10 - I expect Newport to come out firing at home, but Hills will take this one in the main game. Newport to win 2s,3s,4s and Colts.

 

[Pfitzy]

Division 4 tips:

Savers v Oysters - this could be the first real test for Harbour since their inception but they look like a comprehensively good outfit. Savers are tough but there is an air of quality about the opposition.

Oatley v Canterbury - neither side impressive last week but think Canterbury will be too strong this week. Interested to see what has happened to their numbers as their 2nd Grade last year were lit.

Saints v Mac Uni - Saints are probably a bit more cohesive than the Beacons at this stage, but it will be a quality game of rugby.

Redfield v Renegades - really we should have beaten Saints last week, bar a couple of lapses. Redfield don't look to be quite their old selves, but will still be a good rugby outfit. So, basically, hoping our depth will get us our first win over ROBs ever

 

[qwerty123]

Division 2 tips:

Linfield v St Pats:
1st Grade: Pats by 40
2nd Grade: Linfield by 10
Colts: St Pats by 20
3rd Grade: Linfield by 5
4th Grade Linfield by 7

St Pats should prove way too strong in the main game and 21s, but expect the old soldiers to put up a big fight in the lower grades.

Old Barker/Mosman v UNSW:
1st Grade: UNSW 14
2nd Grade: BOBs by 10
Colts: UNSW by 24
3rd Grade: UNSW by 20
4th Grade UNSW by 30

UNSW are a very real chance at a clean sweep down at Turramurra, however this pundit thinks the BOBs 2s might just spoil the party.

Newport v Hills:
1st Grade: Hills by 20
2nd Grade: Newport by 19
Colts: Hills by 19
3rd Grade: Newport by 14
4th Grade Newport by 10

Similar sort of story to St Pats, I think Hills will comfortably handle Newport in 1s and 21s, with the club quality of Newport shining through in the lower grades.

Hunters Hill v Epping:
1st Grade: HH by 80
2nd Grade: HH by 40
Colts: HH by 30
3rd Grade: HH by 40
4th Grade HH by 10

There's a hunt on, and rams the target. HH more than comfortably accounted for UNSW in a trial, who had not much trouble with Epping last week. It's going to be a long year wearing blue and yellow.

 

[Old mate 11]

Division 3 Tips:

Old Iggies vs Quins
1st grade: Iggies by 30
2nd grade: Iggies by 20
colts: Iggies over east suburbs by 19
3rd grade: Iggies by 7

Iggies have started well this year, expect that to continue at home. Harlequins will need to improve their top grades or they'll fall behind quickly

Beecroft vs HAC
1st grade: Croft by 3
2nd grade: HAC by 7
colts: Croft by 30
3rd grade: Croft by 15

Should be some entertaining, close games at Headen this week, don't really know how HAC will travel but if they show up they'll make most games competitive. Beecroft colts look a class above early in the season.

Briars vs Valley
1st grade: Briars by 12
2nd grade: Briars by 3
colts: Briars if the game goes ahead
3rd grade: Briars by 17

Disappointing to hear that valley only have 9 colts players a year after making semi's. Briars look steady.

Raptors vs Blacktown
1st grade: Raptors by 20
2nd grade: Raptors by 25
colts: Raptors by 45
3rd grade: Raptors by 14

Raptors building nicely early in the season and will be looking to make a statement this Saturday. Hope Blacktown's colts can play hard and show improvement after a tough loss.

 

[Heavyd]

Lindfield vs ST PATs; Will go with the big boys over a full of running Lindfield by 20+
Epping vs HUNTERS: Div 1 Hunters by plenty. Lets hope no one gets badly injured.
Old Barker vs UNSW; The students to have too much for a battle weary Barker. UNSW by 20+
NEWPORT vs Hills: I'll go an upset with the Breakers urged on by a massive crowd to cause the upset...just. Breakers by 1. I'll also go out on a delusional limb and call a clean sweep at Porters to the home side.

 

[Fat Pigeon]

coo coo

 

[Mangoman]

Early look at some stuff that stood out to me from lower down in the divisions;

DIV 3 - Raptors wiping the floor across all grades against Blacktown. Lots of players playing multiple grades for Blacktown (some were playing 3s 2s and 1s...at least according to FuseSport). Anyone know what the go is here?

DIV 4 - Oysters look like the real deal and could probably do some damage to some teams higher up in the Divisions given their comprehensive win over the Savers (who are no slouches by the way...). Only issue is they can't field a 2nds! Renegades looking very strong as a rebuilding club, only thing I see of note though (besides the handy wins in all grades, well done guys!) is an ugly looking yellow/red combo in the 2nds game. What on earth happened here Pfitzy?

DIV 5 (south?) - Menai appear to be doing well with an influx of talent, Combined Forces seem like they're getting fed to the wolves each week with player stocks looking to be an issue (13 players, some of which looked "seasoned" were shown in a team photo after last week's game). Sea Lice look the goods early on, a solid outfit as always. Burra will be a contender along with Merrylands...watch the coming weeks to see if Balmain and Irish can hold their structure and composure against the bigger boys.

Div 5 (north?) - Wakehurst knocked off Covies easily today after the looked like a solid outfit in Rd 1 and 2. Looks like one of those comps where any team can win on any week...3 games in and everyone has had at least 1 win and 1 loss. Of note; KOBs are the only team in Div 5 North or South to field a 2nds (Chatswood, Wakehurst and Balmain have a Colts so I guess that kinda counts?). Brothers yet to put on a 2nds game but numbers look strong (again...at least according to FuseSport)