• Welcome to the Green and Gold Rugby forums. As you can see we've upgraded the forums to new software. Your old logon details should work, just click the 'Login' button in the top right.

Subbies 2023!

HogansHeros

Syd Malcolm (24)
This only shows what I’ve been saying all along, which ever way you slice it there’s not enough teams to run 3 Divs of 8 teams. One division will always suffer.

How about a 10 team Division, whilst it doesn’t fit the 14 rounds would give a buffer if 1 team was struggling and is an even number of teams.


Div 1 (10): Colleagues, Waverley, Mosman, St Pats, Drummoyne, Blue Mountains, Hunter's Hill, Lindfield, Forrest, Petersham/ UNSW

Div 2 (10): Petersham/UNSW, Hills, Newport, Epping, Briars, Valley, Beecroft, Knox, Sydney Harbour, Harlequins/ Barker

I know the combined division hasn’t worked previously but taking the top of Division 3 may make it workable? Otherwise your going to drop a heap of quality teams into Div 4 who will dominate those clubs already there.

Bigger divisions have to be the option as it offers a buffer if 1 club starts to struggle during the season. A 6 team comp were 1 team falls over like Manly did means multiple weeks off for clubs/teams.
How many grades do you expect div 2 to have? Sydney Harbour currently has 1 and no colts. Who really knows with Knox, hopefully building. No guaruntee barker or beecroft have the numbers if you want 3 grades and colts.
 

TheBigArvo

Chris McKivat (8)
How many grades do you expect div 2 to have? Sydney Harbour currently has 1 and no colts. Who really knows with Knox, hopefully building. No guaruntee barker or beecroft have the numbers if you want 3 grades and colts.
Would be hoping similar to this year in Div 2 with 3 grades and Colts.
Ideally we would see some of these clubs get that 3rd grade side they haven’t had this year. But based off last year you’d have at least a 6 team comp in 3rd Grade. Could be run similar to the Richardson/ Sutherland Cup this year


Harbour I wouldn’t have there apart from the strength of there side that would bias the lower divisions. They paired up with Easts and Gordon last year which got them 2 Grades and Colts.
Barker is only there as an alternative if one of the other clubs doesn’t want to participate, similar to Iggies there numbers have been sliding for the past few years.

Its far from perfect but I don’t see the smaller divisions working anymore as you need the buffer rather than having to play a club on a roll like Lindfield.
 

Pfitzy

George Gregan (70)
We did the combined Div 2/3 a couple of years ago and while everyone was happy to get game time, nobody in the bottom half really came out of it well.

Additionally, until we get back to a full home and away, the club championship will always have question marks.

There will be some more time devoted to Division 3/4 by the Board, and we don't make the division 1 & 2 decisions without considering the further effects.
 

Prodigy

Alex Ross (28)
Here's an idea. I think it might work. Each division is 10 clubs divided into two pools. Pools decided by standing on Cowboy Cup ladder
DIVISION 1 (4 grades & Colts)

POOL A: Lindfield, Drummoyne, Blue Mountains, Mosman, Forest
POOL B: Colleagues, Hunters Hill, Waverley, St Pats, Petersham/UNSW
DIVISION 2 (3 grades & colts)
POOL A: UNSW, Hills, Knox, Barker, Briars
POOL B: Beecroft, Newport, Harlequins, Epping, Hawkesbury Valley
DIVISION 3 (2/3 grades)
POOL A: Merrylands, Redfield, Sydney Harbour, Northern Saints, Old Ignatians
POOL B: Sydney Irish, Rockdale, Wakehurst/Brothers, Renegades, Manly Savers?

Home & Away series within your pool for Rounds 1-8
Play everyone in the opposite pool Round 13.
Club Championship is awarded for all thirteen rounds.

Top 6 teams in each grade into the finals.
Week 1
QF1: 2nd Pool A vs 3rd Pool B
QF2: 2nd Pool B vs 3rd Pool A
Week 2
SF1: 1st Pool A vs Winner QF2
SF2: 1st Pool B vs Winner QF1
Week 3
GF: Winner SF1 vs Winner SF2

Division 4 would then be a 13/14 club competition, where you play everyone once and then the same finals series applies.
 

TheBigArvo

Chris McKivat (8)
Here's an idea. I think it might work. Each division is 10 clubs divided into two pools. Pools decided by standing on Cowboy Cup ladder
DIVISION 1 (4 grades & Colts)

POOL A: Lindfield, Drummoyne, Blue Mountains, Mosman, Forest
POOL B: Colleagues, Hunters Hill, Waverley, St Pats, Petersham/UNSW
DIVISION 2 (3 grades & colts)
POOL A: UNSW, Hills, Knox, Barker, Briars
POOL B: Beecroft, Newport, Harlequins, Epping, Hawkesbury Valley
DIVISION 3 (2/3 grades)
POOL A: Merrylands, Redfield, Sydney Harbour, Northern Saints, Old Ignatians
POOL B: Sydney Irish, Rockdale, Wakehurst/Brothers, Renegades, Manly Savers?

Home & Away series within your pool for Rounds 1-8
Play everyone in the opposite pool Round 13.
Club Championship is awarded for all thirteen rounds.

Top 6 teams in each grade into the finals.
Week 1
QF1: 2nd Pool A vs 3rd Pool B
QF2: 2nd Pool B vs 3rd Pool A
Week 2
SF1: 1st Pool A vs Winner QF2
SF2: 1st Pool B vs Winner QF1
Week 3
GF: Winner SF1 vs Winner SF2

Division 4 would then be a 13/14 club competition, where you play everyone once and then the same finals series applies.
That’s some progressive thinking that doesn’t belong in Subbies!
 

HogansHeros

Syd Malcolm (24)
Here's an idea. I think it might work. Each division is 10 clubs divided into two pools. Pools decided by standing on Cowboy Cup ladder
DIVISION 1 (4 grades & Colts)

POOL A: Lindfield, Drummoyne, Blue Mountains, Mosman, Forest
POOL B: Colleagues, Hunters Hill, Waverley, St Pats, Petersham/UNSW
DIVISION 2 (3 grades & colts)
POOL A: UNSW, Hills, Knox, Barker, Briars
POOL B: Beecroft, Newport, Harlequins, Epping, Hawkesbury Valley
DIVISION 3 (2/3 grades)
POOL A: Merrylands, Redfield, Sydney Harbour, Northern Saints, Old Ignatians
POOL B: Sydney Irish, Rockdale, Wakehurst/Brothers, Renegades, Manly Savers?

Home & Away series within your pool for Rounds 1-8
Play everyone in the opposite pool Round 13.
Club Championship is awarded for all thirteen rounds.

Top 6 teams in each grade into the finals.
Week 1
QF1: 2nd Pool A vs 3rd Pool B
QF2: 2nd Pool B vs 3rd Pool A
Week 2
SF1: 1st Pool A vs Winner QF2
SF2: 1st Pool B vs Winner QF1
Week 3
GF: Winner SF1 vs Winner SF2

Division 4 would then be a 13/14 club competition, where you play everyone once and then the same finals series applies.
Could you make the pools geographically based as best as possible?
 

LRUsoldier

Frank Nicholson (4)
If subbies believe in the pool system, it would be best to put the best 16 clubs into two evenly divided by pools. There would be no complaints if it was done this way.
 

Prodigy

Alex Ross (28)
Could you make the pools geographically based as best as possible?
Geographically, Division 1 split by the harbour
Pool A: Colleagues, Waverley, St Pats, Drummoyne, Petersham
Pool B: Blue Mountains, Lindfield, Hunters Hill, Forest, Mosman

Division 2 much more of a shitfight
Pool A: Hills, Epping, Briars, Harlequins, UNSW
Pool B: Valley, Beecroft, Barker, Knox, Newport

Division 3
Pool A: Renegades, Redfield, Northern Saints, Wakehurst/Brothers, Manly Savers
Pool B: Merrylands, Rockdale, Sydney Harbour, Sydney Irish, Old Iggies
I know which pool I'd prefer to play in here.....
 

Northies

Bob McCowan (2)
Spoke to a mate who's been at Hills last few years (hope he sees the light soon). Announced at their presentation night, head coach and a couple other coaches moving on. A stack of their 3s squad pulling up stumps. Sounds like plans already well in advance for 2024 though.
 

Prodigy

Alex Ross (28)
Spoke to a mate who's been at Hills last few years (hope he sees the light soon). Announced at their presentation night, head coach and a couple other coaches moving on. A stack of their 3s squad pulling up stumps. Sounds like plans already well in advance for 2024 though.
Andrew Cox, one of their star third grade players, has been announced as the 1st Grade Colts coach at the Two Blues, so it will be interesting to see if he manages to coach and play. My guess is that the 3rd grade premiership might see him hang up the boots or go back to playing 4s at Two Blues.
 

Prodigy

Alex Ross (28)
Spoke to a mate who's been at Hills last few years (hope he sees the light soon). Announced at their presentation night, head coach and a couple other coaches moving on. A stack of their 3s squad pulling up stumps. Sounds like plans already well in advance for 2024 though.
Shame about their head coach. Great guy, good rugby man. Will be missed.
 

TheBigArvo

Chris McKivat (8)
Enough about divisions and who goes where. I want to move on to another big issue I see with Subbies.
Why have we regressed back to having every meeting and Judiciary hearing at David Phillips and moved away from Online? It was a fantastic step forward during COVID that freed up volunteers times.

When Jack Whighton bit a player (fairly serious incident) he attended the judicary via Zoom link rather than driving up to Sydney to appear in person. Why are we asking our players and time poor volunteers to drive all the way to Daceyville to spend 15 mins on site to plead guilty or hear info that’s been the same for the last 10 years?

I understand the desire to make people accountable and understand the severity of the incident and act as a deterrent but all it does is put more pressure on over worked volunteers to take another night out of there already busy weeks.
Why when so many other businesses and organisations are embracing the online options. Are we going back to the face to face option?
 

Prodigy

Alex Ross (28)
Enough about divisions and who goes where. I want to move on to another big issue I see with Subbies.
Why have we regressed back to having every meeting and Judiciary hearing at David Phillips and moved away from Online? It was a fantastic step forward during COVID that freed up volunteers times.

When Jack Whighton bit a player (fairly serious incident) he attended the judicary via Zoom link rather than driving up to Sydney to appear in person. Why are we asking our players and time poor volunteers to drive all the way to Daceyville to spend 15 mins on site to plead guilty or hear info that’s been the same for the last 10 years?

I understand the desire to make people accountable and understand the severity of the incident and act as a deterrent but all it does is put more pressure on over worked volunteers to take another night out of there already busy weeks.
Why when so many other businesses and organisations are embracing the online options. Are we going back to the face to face option?
We have asked a number of times for this to be the case, as our players find it so difficult. The fact that we train on Wednesday night and our volunteers/committee all assist with coaching and training make it near impossible.
Unfortunately, I believe that, at times, Subbies has not moved forward and is stuck in the old ways of thinking. I am incredibly appreciative of the work that Tim and Angus put into the competition, however, I feel like it needs to look at new ideas to engage and support clubs.
 

HogansHeros

Syd Malcolm (24)
Geographically, Division 1 split by the harbour
Pool A: Colleagues, Waverley, St Pats, Drummoyne, Petersham
Pool B: Blue Mountains, Lindfield, Hunters Hill, Forest, Mosman

Division 2 much more of a shitfight
Pool A: Hills, Epping, Briars, Harlequins, UNSW
Pool B: Valley, Beecroft, Barker, Knox, Newport

Division 3
Pool A: Renegades, Redfield, Northern Saints, Wakehurst/Brothers, Manly Savers
Pool B: Merrylands, Rockdale, Sydney Harbour, Sydney Irish, Old Iggies
I know which pool I'd prefer to play in here.....
A Div 2 Pool of Hills, Epping, Beecroft, Barker and Knox would be alright. Just a mess for the rest.
 
Top