Subbies 2023!

[Pfitzy]

Not just players but volunteers (which you know well pfitzy). Those graphs about club, team and player number attrition are horrid, I'd expect a similar trend in support staff numbers as coaches, managers and general do-ers walk away.

Yup. Would be interesting if we had Volunteer numbers registered and reported on. I suspect they'd be historically low, based on discussions I've had - even those with First Division clubs - but it would struggle to have a heartbeat in terms of ratio to players.

Particularly as we're seeing players shift from what I'd refer to as "committed" versus "casual" e.g. those who play in more than 70% of rounds (not games) per season, versus those who attend less than 30% of rounds.

 

[21mm]

I'd hate to see what a full strength Newport will do in 2024 after winning Colts, the Joy Johnson Cup and were Barraclough grand finalists with a severely depleted travel roster in 2023. I'd suggest 2024 will be more like 2022 where the club dominated the hybrid DIv2/3 comp.

Id hate to see what Manly savers will do when Superman suits up for them.

This statement and yours are the same - Hypothetical.

 

[sterlingmortlocksgloves]

I'd hate to see what a full strength Newport will do in 2024 after winning Colts, the Joy Johnson Cup and were Barraclough grand finalists with a severely depleted travel roster in 2023. I'd suggest 2024 will be more like 2022 where the club dominated the hybrid DIv2/3 comp.

Ahh yes, that was the same year Newport only won 1 premiership. Was it the travel exodus or the rumour that Newport declined going up Divisions that caused the downfall?

 

[GD_Maccabi]

2023 POWER RANKINGS. How strong does your club look going into 2024?

1. Colleagues - Just fell short in 1sts, but every other grade went deep, including a great colts side. Finish the year in the best position IMO.
2. Drummoyne - Finals in all 6 grades. They are back.
3. Waverley - Finals in 5 Grades & won 3 premierships. Watch this space next year. They will fix their colts very quickly.
4. Hunters Hill - They are top grade heavy but getting better every year..
5. Mountains - Healthy numbers and a Kentwell premiership. But they still don't have the depth others do below them, which is why they are down the power rankings. Colts is a concern for long term strength and a few retirements away from falling hard.
6. Lindfield - 4 Premierships in Division 2 moves them right up. An unknown in 2024.
7. St Pats - The colts graduates will strengthen the mid grades (2s/3s) , but recruitment is needed heavily in 1st grade.
8. Forest - As above.
9. Mosman - 2023 was poor. Will improve quickly in 2024.
10.UNSW - The next contender for Division 1 and an improving colts program.

11. Petersham - Will enjoy the change to Division 2. Great numbers and will be back in Division 1 quickly.
12. Newport - How do you judge this crew?
13. Hills - Everything is pointing in the right direction.There lower grades and colts are strong, though a few more players needed at the right end.
14. Beecroft - Strong high grades and colts has them sitting pretty for 2024. The best rated of Division 3.
15. Epping - Handled the step up from Division 4 better than expected. Numbers are good, but colts is a concern for long term strength.
16. Briars - Here on numbers, but severe quality issues.
17. Knox - They are still a year away from Division 2, but the rebuild is on. They are better than a few Div2 clubs.
18. Valley - Ageing club and rumours of a 1st grade exodus for next year. Concern.
19. Sydney Harlequins - Good numbers and solid club. No colts will always stop progression.
20. Barker - Getting worse every year. Serious concern.

21. Sydney Irish - Premiership in 1s Div 4. Robbed of a grand final in 2s. Will need colts or a 3rds to push higher.
22. Burraneer - The big movers. Div 5 winners and they look solid for 2 grades. On the way up.
23. Merrylands - Two strong grades. Needs to look for expansion somehow.
24. Iggies - There grades won't contend in Div 4. Colts are getting weaker. Serious concern.
25. Wakehurst - Colts coming through, but forfeits late in the year are a concern. A long way from progression.
26. Redfield - Continue to slide as a club. Concern.
27. Raptors - Not convinced anything is improving long term.
28. Harbour - Yeah they won Division 3. But is this club looking to survive long term?
29. Renegades - They always show up but I am not convinced.
30. Manly Savers - Noone wanted to play this year when it was tough. I think they will compete next year on back of belief players will return if the division is lower. Concern.

31. Kings - Have stabilised with two teams. Moving up (slowly).
32. Saints - Continue to slide. Serious concern.
33. Chatswood - No colts and grade sides getting weaker. Concern.
34. Oatley - 1 team club.
35. North Cronulla - 1 team club.
36. Georges River - 1 team club.
37. Mac Uni - Regressed heavily. Would not compete in Division 5. Serious concern.
38. Blacktown - Regressed again. Concern.
39. Balmain - Continue to slide down. Have a stable 1s group.
40. Dukes - Heavy concern. Would be shocked to see them around in 2024.

The disrespect is real!
Could we please get Maccabi somewhere in here in the high 30s? Poor numbers and horrible performances early in the year but we stabilized for the last couple of rounds and early word on next season is promising. I think we’ll be better next year (at least until the next wave of unexpected retirements and emigration hits us and we’re once again scrambling for 15 every Saturday).

 

[Pfitzy]

The disrespect is real!
Could we please get Maccabi somewhere in here in the high 30s? Poor numbers and horrible performances early in the year but we stabilized for the last couple of rounds and early word on next season is promising. I think we’ll be better next year (at least until the next wave of unexpected retirements and emigration hits us and we’re once again scrambling for 15 every Saturday).

Pay no attention mate - the dogs bark, but the caravan moves on

 

[WoodyWoodsman]

Congratulations to both teams on a ripper of a Kentwell Cup final.
Well done to Blueys on their maiden Kentwell Cup. Solid recruitment drive with players 1, 2, 6, 7, 9, 10, 12, 16, 19 having had recent Shute Shield experience, as well as players 8, 13, 15 playing semi professional rugby league.
Good for rugby in the west if they can gather the momentum.
It will be interesting to see if the dual registered players with BM and Southern Districts continue to travel up the M4 for training every week.

 

[Eastcoast]

Ahh yes, that was the same year Newport only won 1 premiership. Was it the travel exodus or the rumour that Newport declined going up Divisions that caused the downfall?

Interesting to hear this chirp from Lindfield. Havent heard a thing from Oldsoldier when wins have been lean. Hopefully keep this energy up next year when their First Grade are struggling against the big boys.

 

[Pfitzy]

It will be interesting to see if the dual registered players with BM and Southern Districts continue to travel up the M4 for training every week.

Given the fact that Dual-Registered players can only play for the lowest Grade at either club, I don't think training will be a concern.

 

[Oldsoldier]

Interesting to hear this chirp from Lindfield. Havent heard a thing from Oldsoldier when wins have been lean. Hopefully keep this energy up next year when their First Grade are struggling against the big boys.

Hey I’ve stayed in my lane

 

[Pfitzy]

Already some clubs out posting for coaches on socials I notice. Fair enough too - we're about to start lobbing hand grenades to get Colts going

 

[Denistone_Dennis]

Already some clubs out posting for coaches on socials I notice. Fair enough too - we're about to start lobbing hand grenades to get Colts going

Big turnover in coaches in premier rugby this off-season, could be the same in subbies...

 

[Prodigy]

Given the fact that Dual-Registered players can only play for the lowest Grade at either club, I don't think training will be a concern.

That makes no sense, given Luke Smart and Waldo Wessels played fourth grade at Southern Districts and first grade at Blue Mountains.

 

[Pfitzy]

That makes no sense, given Luke Smart and Waldo Wessels played fourth grade at Southern Districts and first grade at Blue Mountains.

Most irregular. Whole season?

 

[thetraitor]

Most irregular. Whole season?

Looking at Fusesport, definitely not all season, but it seems whenever Kentwell had Wet Weather weekends or Blue Mountains had Byes they were both on the bench for Southern Districts 4s. I think some weekends they played for both teams e.g. Smart on June 3rd.

While looking at this I also happened to notice that James Sheppard is a prop for Souths 4s and a reserve prop Drummoyne 1s, although not as often as Wessels and Smart.

Anyway whatever. I'm not sure how common this is because I'm too lazy to investigate further, and I actually don't care because I think it's great these dudes are playing Subbies. I reckon more dudes should do it if they have the time and the energy!

 

[The Wombat]

Looking at Fusesport, definitely not all season, but it seems whenever Kentwell had Wet Weather weekends or Blue Mountains had Byes they were both on the bench for Southern Districts 4s. I think some weekends they played for both teams e.g. Smart on June 3rd.

While looking at this I also happened to notice that James Sheppard is a prop for Souths 4s and a reserve prop Drummoyne 1s, although not as often as Wessels and Smart.

Anyway whatever. I'm not sure how common this is because I'm too lazy to investigate further, and I actually don't care because I think it's great these dudes are playing Subbies. I reckon more dudes should do it if they have the time and the energy!

I agree, I don’t think there’s an issue if theyre just playing lower grades for the prem teams.

 

[LongTimeListener]

Throwing a big idea out here.


Green and Gold Rugby Forum to sponsor a NSW Community Cup for Subbies Clubs from Sydney, Newcastle and Central Coast to compete in a pre-season or mid season FA Cup Style Competition. Sponsors to put together a prize money and clubs get rewards for how deep they go into the competiton. From this competition, we pick rep teams to compete in a post season round robin to go up against QLD teams..

NSW Community Cup Knockout

* Clubs from all subbies to be included. Overtime introduce teams from Southern Highlands upwards.
* Have thrown in Newcastle and CC teams based on nothing, seeding would have to be thought through
* Gives clubs incentives in lower division to qualify for "The Cup"
* Brings new sponsors and potential income for clubs competing.
* Cup organisers to be open and honest about ALL income, acting as a true Non for Profit and sharing all proceeds back to clubs to cover the cost of season
* Organisers to be club members only with a small leadership team to drive participation, draws etc. from NSW Rugby
* Build systematic qualification within all divisions eg. All Subbies 1,2,3 clubs qualify however maybe top 4 from other competition etc.
* Clubs don't have squad restrictions so Div 1 teams might blood 2nd graders or colts in earlier stages to build depth in squads
* Players must have signed up for remainder of season to be eligible to play Cup fixtures

 

[HogansHeros]

Throwing a big idea out here.


Green and Gold Rugby Forum to sponsor a NSW Community Cup for Subbies Clubs from Sydney, Newcastle and Central Coast to compete in a pre-season or mid season FA Cup Style Competition. Sponsors to put together a prize money and clubs get rewards for how deep they go into the competiton. From this competition, we pick rep teams to compete in a post season round robin to go up against QLD teams..

NSW Community Cup Knockout

* Clubs from all subbies to be included. Overtime introduce teams from Southern Highlands upwards.
* Have thrown in Newcastle and CC teams based on nothing, seeding would have to be thought through
* Gives clubs incentives in lower division to qualify for "The Cup"
* Brings new sponsors and potential income for clubs competing.
* Cup organisers to be open and honest about ALL income, acting as a true Non for Profit and sharing all proceeds back to clubs to cover the cost of season
* Organisers to be club members only with a small leadership team to drive participation, draws etc. from NSW Rugby
* Build systematic qualification within all divisions eg. All Subbies 1,2,3 clubs qualify however maybe top 4 from other competition etc.
* Clubs don't have squad restrictions so Div 1 teams might blood 2nd graders or colts in earlier stages to build depth in squads
* Players must have signed up for remainder of season to be eligible to play Cup fixtures


View attachment 17432

Sounds like a great hyperthetical.

 

[LongTimeListener]

Sounds like a great hyperthetical.

What would need to happen do you think to make it realistic?

Concerns around having Div 1 vs Div 4 teams is obvious. But do they trial against each other anyway? Could there be some restrictions around 1st Grades being unable to compete in 2nd round?

 

[HogansHeros]

What would need to happen do you think to make it realistic?

Concerns around having Div 1 vs Div 4 teams is obvious. But do they trial against each other anyway? Could there be some restrictions around 1st Grades being unable to compete in 2nd round?

No issues with Div1 v Div 4, if you opt in to play this comp then you would have to expect that.

My issues would mainly be administrative. Not sure how you would squeeze it in mid season.

Say you have it pre season, there is a small window between summer sports and winter, so you have issues around ground availability.

As spoken about earlier in the thread, volunteer shortages are a real issue, so extending the season/creating more work for volunteers at clubs probably rules out a lot of smaller clubs.

Similar issue with player numbers, by extending the season by adding an extra competition you are going to struggle more with keeping players commited every week. Then add on the extra travel that would be involved, esspecially for tradies working a saturday morning. Sure a Div 1 or 2 club will be able to throw a team together of keen blokes, but after that you might start struggling.

I like the idea of localised cross divisional 7s comps in pre season. Basically mini gala days on a week night or something in Jan - March.
Run similarly to how the touch footy comps are run. Low travel commitment and less players required. If you really have lots of players keen and are a bigger club, you can run 2 teams.
Maybe then at the end you could have a weekend event with clubs from all over nsw who have won their local comp play a champions of champions.

 

[LongTimeListener]

Good points. I think it would need to be in windows.

Maybe;

Round 1 + 2 Pre-Season (Lower Div Teams usually have 1 grade and play trials)
Round 3 Wet Weather Round
Semi Finals and GF Post Season?