Sydney Colts - 2014

[The Butts]

I am led to believe Gordon today declared no thirds.

That's right baz - Gordon weren't helped by having 8 forwards and 4 backs unavailable for varying reasons. It was a very willing four halves, with a total of 4 yellow cards issued. Two of Easts cards were for repeated infingements when Gordon were battering the line.

But, Easts were a step above in class and aggression. Having to pick two teams on the morning of the match didn't help proceedings for the Gordon coaches.

 

[Blackers13]

Parra and Manly had a solid hitout on Saturday with plenty of players in all 3 grades. Both sides had players out and mixed and matched their squads and the results were pretty even. A good season ahead for both clubs in Colts.

 

[Dave Beat]

Parra and Manly had a solid hitout on Saturday with plenty of players in all 3 grades. Both sides had players out and mixed and matched their squads and the results were pretty even. A good season ahead for both clubs in Colts.

And hoping there was no injuries to either club???

 

[Hugh Jarse]

2014 guidelines. Minimal Changes from 2013 (as they relate to colts)

Categories
A (20 Points)
A player who has played a 15 a side test for a Tier 1 international Union

B (16 points)
A player who has at least five Super rugby or Heineken Cup caps
A player who has played 15 a side for a tier two Pacific Island international Union (e.g. Fiji, Samoa, Tonga)

C (10 Points)
A player who holds a current Super Rugby contract
A player who has played (i.e. taken the field) in 50 or more 1st grade games in NSW Premiership competition (in total across any clubs)
A Player who was an Australian age representative (U20) in 2013 or 2012
A player who has at least five SANZAR Union 1st division provincial championship (e.g. ITM Cup or Currie Cup) caps from the 2011 or 2012 season, Aviva (formerly Guinness) Premiership, RaboDirectPro12 (formerly Magners League), French top 14, Amlin Challenge (formerly European Challenge) Cup or LV (formerly Anglo Welsh) Cup in 2012 or 2013.

D (6 points)
A player who was an Australian schoolboy representative in 2012 or 2011
A player who has played between 35 and 49 1st grade games in the Premiership competition (in total across any Clubs)
A player who played more than 50% of the 1st grade Colts games at a different Premiership Club in 2013


E (4 points)
A player who is not an Australian Citizen, AND was not a resident in Australia during both 2013 AND 2012
A player who has played more than 50% of the 1st grade Colts games in 2013
A player who has played Division 1 at the Australian Schoolboys championships in 2013
A player who was an Australian schoolboy representative in 2011

F (2 points)
All other players


Discounts available
Family
Up to 5 points for new players to the club (in their first year only) for siblings of existing players that played the previous season with the club or sons of past players.

Local
One point per year discount (up to a maximum of four points) for players who have previously played with the club or previously played with a local junior club between U10 - Open

Long Service
50% discount for eight years or more service with the club for Category A, B, C or D
one years service is deemed to be 8 games (or rep games)

Experience
Discount for Category A, B or C players (up to a maximum of five points) of one point per year each year they have been out of international union or Super competition representation


Guidelines
1. The points system applies to 1st & 2nd grade, and 1st & 2nd grade colts.

2. Cap applies to starting players and fresh reserves in each grade.

3. Players are categorised at the highest level at which they have played.

4. Points are not cumulative throughout a season – each player is only indexed at one level as of 1st January.

5. Discounts are not cumulative – only one type of discount may apply to a player. Where a player may be eligible for different types of discounts, Clubs should apply the highest discount available to the player.

6. Discounts cannot index players into a negative score.

1st Grade Cap = 100 points
2nd Grade Cap = 60 points
1st Grade Colts = 40 points
2nd Grade Colts = 30 points

HJ Comments:
1, Local Discount. 1 point per year. It may still be possible to sign up a boy from GPS School in Year 11, who is no longer playing for their previous junior village club, play them for a trial game outside the School season, and then they arrive in Colts after they finish school with a 2 point discount, and into Grade with the maximum 4 point discount as a 20 year old.

2. Schoolboys reps carry their 6 points for 2 years instead of dropping to 4 points in their second year out of School - Meh

3. Max of 50% discount and applicable only after 8 years or > 8 games with the club (or assume 8 games with their Rep team (assume Soup Franchise). It will be interesting how this pans out. This could potentially introduce some serious challenges into the annual "branch stacking" we see at finals time when the 5 years service veterans used to return from their professional duties at at 0 points.

That is a big change that will impact on Grade. No impact to all intents and purposes for Colts.

4. I feel sorry for a fellow who does a Shoulder in round 6 and is out for the season with Team Rehab. That season they will be deemed to have not counted as being a long serving member of that club.

5. It will become harder but not impossible to warehouse an Australian Schoolboy in 2nds Colts (and possibly run him on as a 0 points "tired" reserve in 1st Grade).

6. Fresh Reserve discount = 100%. Perhaps the fresh reserve must have had to have played for > 3/4 of the lower grade game time to qualify as a 0 point player. 50% discount to their score if the non-fresh reserve has played a full half of lower grade rugby, and they are classified as a fresh reserve if they played less than a full half of lower grade footy.

7. A player who played more than 50% of the 1st grade Colts games in 2013 = 4 points. This will probably give clubs like Gordon, Penrith and Parramatta who are rebuilding and don't have a big turnover of players from Colts 1 to Grade from season to season some grief.
10 returning players at 4 points - 2 points for 2 local years (1 in junior and 2013 in colts 1) = 20 points.
2 kids non local who played NSW II at National Champs 2013 = 8 points (total - 28 so far)
12 points left for 3 players to make the 40 point cap.
8. Non local Aust Schoolboys may become Colts points cap pariahs and as unintended consequences they may be fast tracked to 3rd Grade where they attract no points, or 2nd grade where there is more scope to warehouse a 6 pointer while their points value starts to drop for loyalty.

Team Managers have to fill out an individual points assessment declaration for each player.

 

[Bruce Ross]

Well done, Huge. It is very helpful when someone takes the time to analyse and summarise this sort of complex information.
.

 

[I like to watch]

10 points = Currently contracted Soup player,or someone 50 1st grade games.
Not really quite the same is it?

 

[Blackers13]

2014 guidelines. Minimal Changes from 2013 (as they relate to colts)

7. A player who played more than 50% of the 1st grade Colts games in 2013 = 4 points. This will probably give clubs like Gordon, Penrith and Parramatta who are rebuilding and don't have a big turnover of players from Colts 1 to Grade from season to season some grief.
10 returning players at 4 points - 2 points for 2 local years (1 in junior and 2013 in colts 1) = 20 points.
2 kids non local who played NSW II at National Champs 2013 = 8 points (total - 28 so far)
12 points left for 3 players to make the 40 point cap.

Exactly my point earlier. The Parramatta firsts team that played against Manly in a trial last weekend was largely the team that played in the semis last year. Based on the new system, that team was worth 44 points. The changes, designed to stop the strong getting stronger, have actually penalised the developing clubs from developing. I'm told that the SRU asked 4 experienced GM's their opinion of the system and they pointed out the flaws. They were told 'too bad, it's too late now' by SRU so we're stuck with it. Expect to see plenty of 'sons of former players' and 3rd grade Colts 'benchies' getting runs in higher grades as a result.[/quote]

 

[stonecutter]

Having just read the NSW Colt's squad announced for a tournament in Canberra this week I truly fear for the longevity of the game. Does anyone truly think that it is healthy to have 22 of 30 players from only 3 clubs in this elite category?

How is this allowed to happen? Many of the players named started their careers in areas different to where they play now. Why? because the game has become a play toy of a small group of people who hold far too much power in determining the playing opportunities for junior rugby and a lack of will from more senior officials to stop it.

Nepotism is entrenched in the game and young kids understand that unless you follow a prescribed pathway and attach yourself to these guru's then you are highly unlikely to rise above club level. In fact, even if you turn out to be a long term mediocre talent opportunities will still be afforded to you that others won't get.

Parlay this into the absolute disgrace that is the changes to the points system designed for Colts this year, where clubs trying to encourage junior participation are penalised, as opposed to the clubs who encourage talent from other clubs to theirs and the ABC will shortly have a 4/5 team competition to telecast each Saturday afternoon.

How are these 3 clubs going to fit these players into a single team? Play some in grade? that's ok when you have experienced grade players next to them and the success continues. But what of the developing clubs who would prefer to let their colts develop where they should? Penalise them by giving them point ratings equivalent to schoolboy starlets. Seriously, who was the moron that devised this angle?

A previous post alerted to simply allowing clubs to only register a number of representative players per season and I agree. Why? because it takes away the ability of the clubs (who are smarter than the administrators) to work the loopholes. I'm already looking forward to see how each club is going to navigate their way around the new rule so we can have the same premiers for the 10th year running.

As a side note (and probably for another forum), if the Waratahs were seen to actually represent NSW rugby (despite the media spin) and not the interests of only a few (perception is reality) then their crowd drawing capacity may increase accordingly. It concerns me as someone with an attachment of many years to the game that many acquaintances have shown indifference to attending, not because of the brand of rugby played, but because they no longer feel connected through club affiliation. I know of one past supporter who no longer attends simply because of the Folau to Uni debacle and he is a north shore supporter. He saw it as evidence of contempt for grass root supporters and voted with his feet.

 

[Baggy Jersey]

Having just read the NSW Colt's squad announced for a tournament in Canberra this week I truly fear for the longevity of the game. Does anyone truly think that it is healthy to have 22 of 30 players from only 3 clubs in this elite category?

How is this allowed to happen? Many of the players named started their careers in areas different to where they play now. Why? because the game has become a play toy of a small group of people who hold far too much power in determining the playing opportunities for junior rugby and a lack of will from more senior officials to stop it.

Nepotism is entrenched in the game and young kids understand that unless you follow a prescribed pathway and attach yourself to these guru's then you are highly unlikely to rise above club level. In fact, even if you turn out to be a long term mediocre talent opportunities will still be afforded to you that others won't get.

Parlay this into the absolute disgrace that is the changes to the points system designed for Colts this year, where clubs trying to encourage junior participation are penalised, as opposed to the clubs who encourage talent from other clubs to theirs and the ABC will shortly have a 4/5 team competition to telecast each Saturday afternoon.

How are these 3 clubs going to fit these players into a single team? Play some in grade? that's ok when you have experienced grade players next to them and the success continues. But what of the developing clubs who would prefer to let their colts develop where they should? Penalise them by giving them point ratings equivalent to schoolboy starlets. Seriously, who was the moron that devised this angle?

A previous post alerted to simply allowing clubs to only register a number of representative players per season and I agree. Why? because it takes away the ability of the clubs (who are smarter than the administrators) to work the loopholes. I'm already looking forward to see how each club is going to navigate their way around the new rule so we can have the same premiers for the 10th year running.

As a side note (and probably for another forum), if the Waratahs were seen to actually represent NSW rugby (despite the media spin) and not the interests of only a few (perception is reality) then their crowd drawing capacity may increase accordingly. It concerns me as someone with an attachment of many years to the game that many acquaintances have shown indifference to attending, not because of the brand of rugby played, but because they no longer feel connected through club affiliation. I know of one past supporter who no longer attends simply because of the Folau to Uni debacle and he is a north shore supporter. He saw it as evidence of contempt for grass root supporters and voted with his feet.

Spot on!!!

 

[Dave Beat]

Having just read the NSW Colt's squad announced for a tournament in Canberra this week I truly fear for the longevity of the game. Does anyone truly think that it is healthy to have 22 of 30 players from only 3 clubs in this elite category?

How is this allowed to happen? Many of the players named started their careers in areas different to where they play now. Why? because the game has become a play toy of a small group of people who hold far too much power in determining the playing opportunities for junior rugby and a lack of will from more senior officials to stop it.

Nepotism is entrenched in the game and young kids understand that unless you follow a prescribed pathway and attach yourself to these guru's then you are highly unlikely to rise above club level. In fact, even if you turn out to be a long term mediocre talent opportunities will still be afforded to you that others won't get.

Parlay this into the absolute disgrace that is the changes to the points system designed for Colts this year, where clubs trying to encourage junior participation are penalised, as opposed to the clubs who encourage talent from other clubs to theirs and the ABC will shortly have a 4/5 team competition to telecast each Saturday afternoon.

How are these 3 clubs going to fit these players into a single team? Play some in grade? that's ok when you have experienced grade players next to them and the success continues. But what of the developing clubs who would prefer to let their colts develop where they should? Penalise them by giving them point ratings equivalent to schoolboy starlets. Seriously, who was the moron that devised this angle?

A previous post alerted to simply allowing clubs to only register a number of representative players per season and I agree. Why? because it takes away the ability of the clubs (who are smarter than the administrators) to work the loopholes. I'm already looking forward to see how each club is going to navigate their way around the new rule so we can have the same premiers for the 10th year running.

As a side note (and probably for another forum), if the Waratahs were seen to actually represent NSW rugby (despite the media spin) and not the interests of only a few (perception is reality) then their crowd drawing capacity may increase accordingly. It concerns me as someone with an attachment of many years to the game that many acquaintances have shown indifference to attending, not because of the brand of rugby played, but because they no longer feel connected through club affiliation. I know of one past supporter who no longer attends simply because of the Folau to Uni debacle and he is a north shore supporter. He saw it as evidence of contempt for grass root supporters and voted with his feet.

With the current state of Junior Rugby - ref the decline in Junior Rugby thread. If a club gets out there and puts in the effort to lift the game in its geographic area and that results in a strong colts team in 5 years time - why shouldn't they be able to keep there players together?

After all - i think all clubs have the ability to get out there and do that development and there should be an incentive that hard work in lifting the the game is rewarded.

I'm guess Manly would be one of the 3 teams you referred to - Could local juniors Reece Hodge (injured), and Lala Foketi (rebels EPS) have also been on the list.

Solution - concentrate on inclining junior rugby and that will provide growth.

 

[the baz]

Norths v warringah trial.
Norths won all 3 colts convincingly, with 9-2 in threes, 7-2 in twos and 10 or 11 to nil in ones. Warringah were solid starters in all 3 but wilted after about 15 minutes. Norths backs were too slick. Once they got in the groove. Uncontested scrums was an issue as norths had no front rowers, and warringah had plenty. Warringsh were solid in lineouts and had some great tall timber. A solid hit out fir both teams and give them an indication as to what both teams need to work through for round one.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I've been told that Norths have recruited well out of the Central Coast U18 and U17 team from last year.

There were some good players in the Coasties, and it would be good if they had been lured into Junior Shute Shield. The Northies may surprise some this year because the Coasties weren't mugs.

 

[the baz]

I've been told that Norths have recruited well out of the Central Coast U18 and U17 team from last year.

There were some good players in the Coasties, and it would be good if they had been lured into Junior Shute Shield. The Northies may surprise some this year because the Coasties weren't mugs.

Only 3 former coasts players played, a flanker, a hooker( thirds) and a centre (seconds).

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Snout was ill informed, and their credability rating will be downgraded forthwith.

Original point stands however. There is talent on the Coast.

 

[the baz]

Snout was ill informed, and their credability rating will be downgraded forthwith.

Original point stands however. There is talent on the Coast.

Agreed. Gordon has picked up about 7 former coast players I believe.

 

[forwards4ever]

Went down to watch Easts v Souths 3rd colts today! The thing that pleased me the most was the number of boys back playing for Easts that had played Juniors with them (many not since U13s). The most pleasing aspect the fact that they weren't 1st XV stars, but rather 2nds, 3rds 4ths players coming back to play the game through which they found enjoyment. None of them looking for a career or selection at a higher level.
I sometimes wonder with the amount of time spent on these forums talking about "pathways", ""politics of selection" etc whether there are any young ones coming through after school.
Glad to see there are guys out there just playing because they love it. Hope they go on to become the clubmen who keep the game going.

 

[Baggy Jersey]

With only 3 clubs with money it wont produce any growth but just fodder for the dominant clubs. Growing the pie will not happen while those 3 maintain an appetite for dominance. How long before the other clubs think its not worth investing in juniors because they will move with the money. How about a 3 team colts comp!

 

[Dave Beat]

With only 3 clubs with money it wont produce any growth but just fodder for the dominant clubs. Growing the pie will not happen while those 3 maintain an appetite for dominance. How long before the other clubs think its not worth investing in juniors because they will move with the money. How about a 3 team colts comp!

I think you may be missing the point, I said if a club spends time with minis and juniors there is a higher chance they'll end up with good colts. Manly won 3 state titles last year I recall 11 12 and 17 why shouldn't those players flow through over the years.

Seriously focus and hard work is required on juniors, all clubs are free to do the same.

 

[Baggy Jersey]

Not missing the point, just making one. With 22 players out of 30 from 3 clubs wonder what club minis and juniors they came from!

 

[Tah and feathered]

Souths colts played Easts in very hot conditions
In all 3 games players were being rotated as some were struggling with the heat
Souths won 3rds 5 tries to 2 with both sides having a number of reserves
Souths won 2nds 8 tries to 3 in a good open game
Souths won 1sts 7 tries to 4 in a hard fought match
Easts have some sheer pace on the wings and a good back line and a solid pack of forwards
Souths were there own worse enemies in pushing passes and giving piggy back penalties away but a good performance and picking the 3 teams to play Manly will be tough.
Good to see trials are finished and now the games for sheep stations begin