Sydney Colts - 2015

[AussieDominance]

Regarding the whole player points thing I think there should be some kind of limit on out of area sydney players playing for the club's teams. In terms of the country players this is where a club should be rewarded for it's commitment to network and raise necessary expenditure to support it's players.

Some determination has to be given to clubs to produce and support rugby in their own area through monetary and coaching support at least.

I can't imagine club's like Norths, Randwick, Uni & Easts would be looked upon to favourably in this area but that is the reason why they have historically attracted regional players.

 

[I like to watch]

huh?
The richer clubs who have been able to fund subsidies/payments to country players,should be rewarded for being richer than the clubs that can't afford to?
That's not going to even up the spread of the talent pool.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Your suggestion has merit worth developing further @Stonecutter.

First thoughts are that the various School association and State and National Schoolboys selectors frequently get things wrong, and not all School Association Teams are of equal value. ISA sometimes have bumper crops as do CAS but generally the ISA II standard is usually at GPS Blue (3rd or 4th XV- there's not much between them standard) with CAS II slightly higher, and CHS II slightly lower.

Need to consider the bolter from the country, or a lad who missed on National, State or even association XV selection due to injury.

Interstate (quite a few former ACT players running around in Sydney Colts, not many Qld, Vic or WA) and overseas players (the very small exception rather then the rule) need some consideration.

It isn't about school leavers. Now that we have a mostly transparent and open selection process for State and National Under 20's players, which may include some late bloomers that the Koala Club overlooked or who were not flavour of the month with their school association, there should be some additional loading of points for those folk. It seems a bit of an anomaly that a lad selected to National or State U20's does not attract any points penalty until the year after they play, despite spending most of the summer and preseason in a quasi professional high level development programme.

Perhaps the Koala Club and Junior Gold Cup squad members should also receive a player points ranking, but most of the Koala Club attract points from selection at National Schoolboys.

Further to the point about Schoolboy selectors getting things wrong, there are occasions where a lad would otherwise be in Aust or State Schoolboys, but fails to be selected due a Loig player (with no intention of ever playing Colts Rugby) being a road block to their selection. Aust Schoolboys are not currently a formal development arm of the ARU and until they do become such, players intending to follow a Loig career after school (maybe only for the $ in the Carmakers Cup and for a Club to pay for their degree) then they should be eligible for Aust Schoolboys. I am sure that there were some damn fine Centres around who missed out on higher representative honours due to Tepai and Taane from Newington being selected ahead of them for State and National honours.

I think you need to look at it from both top down but also bottom up before you can start allocating x points for y skill level. How many player points do we have being generated by the "pathway" each year to be spread into 12 x 15 (plus fresh reserves) Colts 1 positions, and 12 x 15 Colts 2 positions (possibly into Colts 3 & Under 18s as well) - Top Down. Then look at the maths of assembling 12 teams that have the right balance of x Schoolboys, y State Reps, z Koala club/Junior Gold players, p School association 1st XV polayers etc to establish the demand for players and player points - Bottom Up.

To force kids to commute some distance to attend training with a distant club may require the peak body to pay them some form of compensation, or the kid may just decide to give the game up, and take the easy $ available from Loig in the Carmakers Cup, or just play socially for the local subbies club. I can imagine a kid staying in student Accommodation close to UNSW, USyd or Mac Uni being a little peeved to have to travel to Rat Park, Nepean Park, or Foreshaw Park when they could conveniently walk or cycle to St Andrews Oval, Latham Park, or TG Millner from their student digs. With the NSWRU and ARU on the bones of their backside, and most clubs operating on much less, who is going to pay for all the travel to keep these kids in the game? Many Colts 1 teams train 3 or more times a week.

Is there something we can take from the Eastwood model? They don't seem to have a particularly strong Colts programme, although it is competitive yet they seem to manage to roll out an impressive First Grade Shute Shield team annually. How does that happen?

Maybe rugby needs to borrow someone from the Horse racing with experience in working their handicapping system, or even the Bookmaking or acturiaral industry to come up with a fair and equitable system.

 

[I like to watch]

Occam's razor,Big Arse.
Don't allow rockstars to go en masse to one or two clubs.
it really is that simple.
All the complexities that you love so much,just disappear if this one thing is addressed.

 

[AussieDominance]

huh?
The richer clubs who have been able to fund subsidies/payments to country players,should be rewarded for being richer than the clubs that can't afford to?
That's not going to even up the spread of the talent pool.

Clubs should be rewarded for developing local players. Clubs that develop significant funding streams/networks should be rewarded by being able to support development of country players yes.

A player shouldn't be made to go play for Penrith or Parramatta just because the club doesn't have good administration to develop income streams (not implying these clubs have poor administration by the way).

 

[AussieDominance]

All clubs should be actively encouraged to bring in players from out of the Sydney area to strengthen the competition.

The Waratahs should be actively involved in helping these clubs attract these players by including them in academy type programs in the interest of making the Shute Shield and Sydney Colts competition stronger.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Occam's razor,Big Arse.
Don't allow rockstars to go on masse to one or two clubs.
it really is that simple.
All the complexities that you love so much,just disappear if this one thing is addressed.

so you you define a rockstar and attribute so many points to him that no team can have more than 2 or 3 but subject to the person being able to produce proof of residency relevant to the particular club - maybe you need to put colts and grade on different points systems.
Beware the anomalies, however.

 

[BellyTwoBlues]

I have just heard Penrith 1st colts are now out of the comp and all clubs who have played them will have there win comp points deleted and the for and sgainst ( mostly for) and 1st colts games will now be a bye.
Clubs playing Penrith will have there 2nd colts teams closely monitored so that teams are not stacking there 2nd and 3rd colts teams with 1st colts players to ensure a victory.
I was also told that next year teams who finish top 4 ( could be top 6) are not allowed to recruit players from the clubs outside the top 4 or 6 unless they pay a transfer fee to the club that the player leaves and that players points will be increased and the team points will drop from 40 to 30.
If they do this drop then local players have to be zero points, in my opinion.
I got this from a good source but it is 3rd or 4th hand

My mail is that this is not accurate at this stage, particularly the highlighted comment. From what I've been told they have been asked to show cause rather than having been turfed out.

As the GM of one of the clubs that still gets put in the basket case category by the ill informed Mosman faithful, and still fighting the fight to change the perception of everybody else, I can empathise with Penrith's plight.

As a resident of the Penrith region on and off for 25 years, I can also see first hand exactly what the community out here want in regards to their weekend sport. And to be brutally honest, Rugby is a long way down that list. My personal thoughts will remain just that but like so many things in rugby that need fixing, (my club's results this year being one of them), we need to first look within at the reasons why they're struggling and how are they (we) going to fix it?

We then need to think outside the square to increase the foothold of the game out here.

Until that happens and the vultures of Sydney rugby stop their carnivorous behaviour towards each other nothing will ever change.

There is a million people who live between Parramatta and Penrith. What I want to know is, why aren't the ARU asking why does 5% of Australia's enitre population not give 2 hoots about the game?

 

[the baz]

Regarding the whole player points thing I think there should be some kind of limit on out of area sydney players playing for the club's teams. In terms of the country players this is where a club should be rewarded for it's commitment to network and raise necessary expenditure to support it's players.

Some determination has to be given to clubs to produce and support rugby in their own area through monetary and coaching support at least.

I can't imagine club's like Norths, Randwick, Uni & Easts would be looked upon to favourably in this area but that is the reason why they have historically attracted regional players.

Aussie why those 4 clubs in particular?

 

[AussieDominance]

Why do they attract country players and not have that many juniors?

It's more to do with the location of those clubs it's very expensive to live around the city for young family's. This has it's advantage though as it's where out of towners want to live and it also allows for the people who actually are playing there to be of high socio economic status usually which should really help with sponsorship and other things.

I don't think it would be that hard for Sydney Uni to attract corporate support (jobs & cash) with a whole heap of ex players with university degrees.

 

[Brian Westlake]

At what stage does he become a Local from The Shire with no links to Coogee Oval or The Country Cockatoos?

Everyone knows you have to be born in the Shire to be a true local. Everyone else is just an outsider.[/quote]
Does the birth certificate come with the southern cross tattoo for the boys and the "Tramp Stamp" Butterfly for the girls?

 

[Brian Westlake]

If, as an 18 year old, I have some doddery old bloke from SRU saying to me that I can't play at Club A and must go to Club D due to some reasoning that I can't fathom. I would tell him to get fucked, pure and simple. If I am at Johns at USyd and am told to go to Eastwood. No. I am from the Central Coast and am going to play with a couple of guys I knew from Country carnivals at (insert club) and some bellend says I have to play for Gordon?
Altruistically fine. But I am going to play with my mates at SU or Manly or Randwick. You will never force a young man to another club against his will. You may force him to another code though, and wouldn't that be just wonderful.
Rather than bleat as to why the local juniors have left, look to options to make your club the most enticing

 

[Brian Westlake]

Why do they attract country players and not have that many juniors?

It's more to do with the location of those clubs it's very expensive to live around the city for young family's. This has it's advantage though as it's where out of towners want to live and it also allows for the people who actually are playing there to be of high socio economic status usually which should really help with sponsorship and other things.

I don't think it would be that hard for Sydney Uni to attract corporate support (jobs & cash) with a whole heap of ex players with university degrees.

Why do they atrract players?
Why does the bright light attract a moth?
I could think nothing better in leaving my home in Yeoval or Molong
or Wellington to come to the city and live in..... An outer western suburb when my education is in Kensington/Macquarie Park/Chippendale?

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Randwick Teams are up for the Emus game.

Any Match reports from last weekend?

 

[the baz]

so would that not hurt Gordon with their partnership with central coast then? I know souths have a number of boys from the country as well.

 

[I like to watch]

Everyone knows you have to be born in the Shire to be a true local. Everyone else is just an outsider.

Does the birth certificate come with the southern cross tattoo for the boys and the "Tramp Stamp" Butterfly for the girls?[/quote]
Nah,the tatts come when they get a passport, so the other bogans in Bali know they are Shire boys!

 

[I like to watch]

If, as an 18 year old, I have some doddery old bloke from SRU saying to me that I can't play at Club A and must go to Club D due to some reasoning that I can't fathom. I would tell him to get fucked, pure and simple. If I am at Johns at USyd and am told to go to Eastwood. No. I am from the Central Coast and am going to play with a couple of guys I knew from Country carnivals at (insert club) and some bellend says I have to play for Gordon?
Altruistically fine. But I am going to play with my mates at SU or Manly or Randwick. You will never force a young man to another club against his will. You may force him to another code though, and wouldn't that be just wonderful.
Rather than bleat as to why the local juniors have left, look to options to make your club the most enticing

.
No one is suggesting that.
The suggestion is that Randwick( or whoever)is not permitted too register 5 or 6 Oz Schoolboys from one year.
Big difference.

 

[Brian Westlake]

.
No one is suggesting that.
The suggestion is that Randwick( or whoever)is not permitted too register 5 or 6 Oz Schoolboys from one year.
Big difference.

So if Aus Schoolboy Rockstar from say,Walgett, says I am going to play with my school mates at Easts, and three NSW players that went to the same school say "So are we!"
What happens then?
Do you send Rockstar away?
Do you send the three NSW players away?
Potential to lose players rather than spread the wealth is more the worry. I Am open to all options that may be for the betterment of the game

 

[Hugie]

The reason none of these suggestions, about points and forcing players to move etc., doesn't make any sense is that it is ignoring the route cause of the problem (shuffling the deck chairs whilst SS Australian Rugby sinks). The problem is that NSWRU has completely failed to develop the game in Sydney's west and south west. Football, NRL, and AFL all understand how important development in these areas is.
The Penrith colts 1st problem is a symptom not a cause. Points systems, shuffling players will simply cover up the problem rather than expose it (as it was 2 weeks ago).
The boys in Sydney' west are not genetically inferior to their cousins in the East, hence there should be no problems getting a competitive team together in Penrith with proper development and promotion of the game in a big growth area. This would also get more eye balls on the screens and bums on seats i.e. the financial future of the game.

 

[BellyTwoBlues]

The reason none of these suggestions, about points and forcing players to move etc., doesn't make any sense is that it is ignoring the route cause of the problem (shuffling the deck chairs whilst SS Australian Rugby sinks). The problem is that NSWRU has completely failed to develop the game in Sydney's west and south west. Football, NRL, and AFL all understand how important development in these areas is.
The Penrith colts 1st problem is a symptom not a cause. Points systems, shuffling players will simply cover up the problem rather than expose it (as it was 2 weeks ago).
The boys in Sydney' west are not genetically inferior to their cousins in the East, hence there should be no problems getting a competitive team together in Penrith with proper development and promotion of the game in a big growth area. This would also get more eye balls on the screens and bums on seats i.e. the financial future of the game.

But it'll never happen because they sycophants on governing body boards know the shift of power will soon follow and they'll lose access to free jackets and Bledisloe Cup Corporate boxes.

My tag line is now more on the money than ever