• Welcome to the forums of Green & Gold Rugby.
    We have recently made some changes to the amount of discussions boards on the forum.
    Over the coming months we will continue to make more changes to make the forum more user friendly for all to use.
    Thanks, Admin.

Sydney Colts - 2015

Status
Not open for further replies.

AussieDominance

Trevor Allan (34)
In our experience, to turn things around you must first look within. As Hugh Jarse says above, why are kids not staying local?

Rather than go around with the poor me victim mentality, look at what you are doing and ask how you can improve it. Then get a visible weekly presence in local schools.

There's also no point in crying over what happened in the past. Juniors/Colts and Grade players left, for their own reasons, and you can't change that. Just make sure what you have now and where you want to get to is what your focusing on.

though I do laugh when Gordon people tell me the refs are against them! 11 other clubs would say differently.


Yes I am of the same opinion it's not worth worrying about players who have left in the past if the program shows it can be beneficial to a player progressing to higher levels then you will find some will start coming back anyway.
 

Rugby Addict

Herbert Moran (7)
I'm told Penrith have asked permission to play 21 and 22 year old lads in the Colts this season.
SRU are seriously considering the proposal but don't intend on putting it to the other Clubs.

On a similar note Gordon wish to play 20 year olds in the under 18 competition this season. They have lobbied their close friends on the SJRU Executive and the SJRU appear set to approve it despite strong opposition from other Clubs.

Gordon have asked for dispensation based on weight for some U19 players (no U20 players) to play alongside their U18 players. This helps get another team in the U18 comp to play before 3rd grade.
 

Dingasden

Ward Prentice (10)
Gordon have asked for dispensation based on weight for some U19 players (no U20 players) to play alongside their U18 players. This helps get another team in the U18 comp to play before 3rd grade.
As long as this is done in the spirit of maximising rugby participation across the board rather than stacking teams with big players or superstars in order to win comps, I see this as a positive thing.
 

Garza

Stan Wickham (3)
Age vs weight has always been an issue - schools resist change even though they must be negligent to play a tiny boy against a man size boy of the same age in a game of physicality if not violence.

But at club rugby level the issue is different - does the unevenness of teams help rugby ? Do blowout scores eg Syd UNI smashing Penrith foster the game?

Can that existing system be legitimately defended (as the teams like Sydney Uni and now Randwick in the colts competition try to) because they are winners in such an arrangement ? Recruitment and training and offering assisted education are frankly irrelevant. Sydney University and Randwick are good at one thing. Raiding the State & Australian schoolboy teams for players (and more recently for coaching staff).

What schoolboy with genuine Waratah or Wallaby aspirations, likely in such teams, would not want to join a club with boys of similar skills and ambitions) poached from schoolboy rep teams in the past ?

Syd Uni and its mates on the NSWRU including Farr Jones are unlikely to want to change the current situation. After all does not the $1 million plus foundation Syd Uni can draw on show they are wanting to foster rugby. Randwick can argue the same by its use the scholarships to entice players. But what do other clubs have to offer ?

The schoolboy rep player has no real choice - he wants to follow the money and the winning clubs. The system perpetuates itself.

NSWRU must step in. THE CURRENT POINTS HANDICAP IS INADEQUATE FOR THIS PURPOSE . Fix it or kill rugby .
 

The Butts

Herbert Moran (7)
I can prove that Jackson is not Tongan, but a fair dinkum player of Indigenous "stock". This photo was taken in 2013 when Jacko, and Bennie played for NSW in the Lloyd McDermott Australian Indigenous Championships.

Lloyd McDermott (centre) was the first every Indigenous Wallaby, and won a lot of respect when he refused to have anything to do with the Springboks because of their racial 'problems'.

Don't worry about the red headed Bennie on the other side, I know his father quite well and he is of Irish Stock (with VERY strong genes) :) :)
 

Attachments

  • LloydMcDermott.jpg
    LloydMcDermott.jpg
    67.9 KB · Views: 293

Jaghond

Ted Fahey (11)
To refer back to @Gibbo’s grenade at #250….and subsequent commentary.

In my personal experience, there have been elements of a number of the comments made thus far that seem a reasonable and plausible response to such a grenade.

The one thing that I will question until the cows come home – is that ANY District Club can lay claim to “owning/possessing” ANY junior player at all.

All Juniors participating in the SJRU Competition are members of a Village Club. It is at these Village Clubs that they first learn to enjoy this wonderful game of Rugby. And it is at these Clubs where countless hours of volunteer work is undertaken by unpaid parents etc – in teaching the kids how to catch & pass – and run in the right direction !

The District Clubs become involved when Rep Rugby kicks in – and which runs for approximately 5 -6 weeks. However – again based on my own personal experiences – and reasonable anecdotal commentary – it seems that most of the District Clubs add little or no input – other then perhaps covering some of the hard costs – jerseys etc – which in and of itself is laudable – given the funding problems just about every club faces these days.

And I am very sorry Gibbo – but in my time involved in your District, I can’t recall EVER seeing a Gordon player come out to our Club to help coach – or even just to show up & help. Further – from my very limited involvement in Reps, albeit many years ago now – again, there was absolutely NO involvement from any players at the Senior Club that I was aware of– other than perhaps to present trophies or whatever at the post long weekend celebrations ( usually catered for by the Seniors, to be fair).

What usually happened was that a group of manic, over involved but usually well-meaning parent types ( myself included) – and whose passion generally far outweighed their playing or coaching ability - gave up huge amounts of time to coach, manage or run water during these Rep periods.

And I am sorry to pin your District to the mast head – but it was one of 2 that I had I had experience with ( and the other district didn’t even want to know us as a Club !!) – but I would suggest it was a pretty familiar experience at many village clubs/ rep teams. And further, it is not meant to be a public denigration of your District – more an historic personal observation. It may have been quite different with other teams within that District – and indeed may be quite different now.

And lets be realistic - Reps deals with perhpas only 1% of the total number of kids playing junior club rugby at any one time ( and let's not bring in private school rugby to muddy the waters !)

However – I take exception to any notion that your – or ANY District’s - Club “owns” a player’s loyalty. To paraphrase a previous contributor to these pages - Loyalty has to be earned – not expected or demanded.

If anything, given the countless hours put in at the Village Club level – if anybody/group has done something to earn the loyalty of their players – it is these guys. So please don’t “lob” in with how disappointed you are that someone who might have played Rep rugby in the U.11’s ( or whatever team for that matter) for your District – and is now at another District's Senior Club.

Using my own son as an example – he actually went back to play with a Subbies Club for a time, with a whole group of his mates – and they had a blast ! Was he good enough to play Grade – I don’t know – but some suggest that he may have been – but we will never know now - as his then wrok commitmen st basically eliminated any chance of \seeking top play grade at any level.

It is this sort of camaraderie that seems to have disappeared (in the never ending hunt for a quick buck by many young players today). And dare I say it – some of these blokes were from the school he attended – (and yes it was a private school) – but just as many weren’t – but they had ALL become mates playing rugby ( no matter where it was learned & played).

And this was what was the driving factor – wanting to have a bit of fun & enjoy the game – and have a few laughs & beers afterwards.

Make no mistake – they played as hard as they could – and gave as good as they got - and I have the Xrays & surgeons bills to prove it !

Lastly – can I also add that I don’t believe that in this day and age parents of junior players at Village Club level should be getting ticked off that someone from the District First Grade team hasn’t shown up to help train their children.

As a past employer of a bloke playing senior Grade - I am brutally aware of the hours & hours of commitment that are not only expected – but demanded – to be put in to play senior rugby. And lets not even start on the demands of those few individuals lucky enough to be paid employees of NSW Waratahs !

In my most humble of personal opinions - It doesn’t matter where they “learned” their rugby – as young adults, they will naturally drift to somewhere where they feel wanted, appreciated – and where they can enjoy the company of their mates.

If any Club can facilitate that - and also help them further their education or work-related studies/training – that is also a huge bonus that seems to becoming more important to many.

The Hound

 

Brett Kenna

Frank Row (1)
To refer back to @Gibbo’s grenade at #250….and subsequent commentary.

In my personal experience, there have been elements of a number of the comments made thus far that seem a reasonable and plausible response to such a grenade.

The one thing that I will question until the cows come home – is that ANY District Club can lay claim to “owning/possessing” ANY junior player at all.

All Juniors participating in the SJRU Competition are members of a Village Club. It is at these Village Clubs that they first learn to enjoy this wonderful game of Rugby. And it is at these Clubs where countless hours of volunteer work is undertaken by unpaid parents etc – in teaching the kids how to catch & pass – and run in the right direction !

The District Clubs become involved when Rep Rugby kicks in – and which runs for approximately 5 -6 weeks. However – again based on my own personal experiences – and reasonable anecdotal commentary – it seems that most of the District Clubs add little or no input – other then perhaps covering some of the hard costs – jerseys etc – which in and of itself is laudable – given the funding problems just about every club faces these days.

And I am very sorry Gibbo – but in my time involved in your District, I can’t recall EVER seeing a Gordon player come out to our Club to help coach – or even just to show up & help. Further – from my very limited involvement in Reps, albeit many years ago now – again, there was absolutely NO involvement from any players at the Senior Club that I was aware of– other than perhaps to present trophies or whatever at the post long weekend celebrations ( usually catered for by the Seniors, to be fair).

What usually happened was that a group of manic, over involved but usually well-meaning parent types ( myself included) – and whose passion generally far outweighed their playing or coaching ability - gave up huge amounts of time to coach, manage or run water during these Rep periods.

And I am sorry to pin your District to the mast head – but it was one of 2 that I had I had experience with ( and the other district didn’t even want to know us as a Club !!) – but I would suggest it was a pretty familiar experience at many village clubs/ rep teams. And further, it is not meant to be a public denigration of your District – more an historic personal observation. It may have been quite different with other teams within that District – and indeed may be quite different now.

And lets be realistic - Reps deals with perhpas only 1% of the total number of kids playing junior club rugby at any one time ( and let's not bring in private school rugby to muddy the waters !)

However – I take exception to any notion that your – or ANY District’s - Club “owns” a player’s loyalty. To paraphrase a previous contributor to these pages - Loyalty has to be earned – not expected or demanded.

If anything, given the countless hours put in at the Village Club level – if anybody/group has done something to earn the loyalty of their players – it is these guys. So please don’t “lob” in with how disappointed you are that someone who might have played Rep rugby in the U.11’s ( or whatever team for that matter) for your District – and is now at another District's Senior Club.

Using my own son as an example – he actually went back to play with a Subbies Club for a time, with a whole group of his mates – and they had a blast ! Was he good enough to play Grade – I don’t know – but some suggest that he may have been – but we will never know now - as his then wrok commitmen st basically eliminated any chance of \seeking top play grade at any level.

It is this sort of camaraderie that seems to have disappeared (in the never ending hunt for a quick buck by many young players today). And dare I say it – some of these blokes were from the school he attended – (and yes it was a private school) – but just as many weren’t – but they had ALL become mates playing rugby ( no matter where it was learned & played).

And this was what was the driving factor – wanting to have a bit of fun & enjoy the game – and have a few laughs & beers afterwards.

Make no mistake – they played as hard as they could – and gave as good as they got - and I have the Xrays & surgeons bills to prove it !

Lastly – can I also add that I don’t believe that in this day and age parents of junior players at Village Club level should be getting ticked off that someone from the District First Grade team hasn’t shown up to help train their children.

As a past employer of a bloke playing senior Grade - I am brutally aware of the hours & hours of commitment that are not only expected – but demanded – to be put in to play senior rugby. And lets not even start on the demands of those few individuals lucky enough to be paid employees of NSW Waratahs !

In my most humble of personal opinions - It doesn’t matter where they “learned” their rugby – as young adults, they will naturally drift to somewhere where they feel wanted, appreciated – and where they can enjoy the company of their mates.

If any Club can facilitate that - and also help them further their education or work-related studies/training – that is also a huge bonus that seems to becoming more important to many.

The Hound
Thanks Hound - Having been involved for many years at the Hawkesbury District Junior Rugby Club in a variety of positions it's nice to see some credit given to the village clubs and the input and influence they have had over the years developing the basics of their players to go on to rep footy and district teams. At the moment 17 of the 23 boys who played and won the 17's Sunday Div 1 competition in 2012 are now at Parramatta. At least 7 of them play regular 1st grade Colts and the others are in seconds and often are on the bench. Hawkesbury put a huge amount of time and dedication into these boys and it has paid off. I'm sure many other village clubs do the same and the district clubs are getting the benefits. I now enjoy taking photos of all the Parra colts games for our website and enjoy seeing the Hawkesbury boys play together each Saturday. Let me add, many of those Hawkesbury boys played in the Junior Parra rep team that won 5 state champs and were runners up in the other. The Hawkesbury club paved the way for those boys with some excellent coaching from "village" coaches who took on the coaching of those boys at Parra Rep Level. Well do to Neal Richardson (Hills) for all those years and his helpers from other village clubs.
 

Gibbo

Ron Walden (29)
I'm just going to stick to the facts. and I'll tidy up some of the misconceptions you might have about what I've written.
To refer back to @Gibbo’s grenade at #250….and subsequent commentary.

/snip
The one thing that I will question until the cows come home – is that ANY District Club can lay claim to “owning/possessing” ANY junior player at all.
/snip
However – I take exception to any notion that your – or ANY District’s - Club “owns” a player’s loyalty. To paraphrase a previous contributor to these pages - Loyalty has to be earned – not expected or demanded.

I didn't make any claim of 'ownership' in any of my posts.

/snip

So please don’t “lob” in with how disappointed you are that someone who might have played Rep rugby in the U.11’s

When did I express any emotion at all about this?


You've had a few go's at me when all I have done is state facts. I started this 'sub-thread' knowing full well where it was going (ie around in circles with no end in sight). Did I type I was dissapointed. No. Did I claim ownership of a player - No. Could you have ascertained that is what I meant by my posts, that is a distinct possibility.

Carry on...
Maurice-Moss-Eating-Popcorn-The-IT-Crowd.gif
 

Rugby Addict

Herbert Moran (7)
Hound - I largely agree with all you have to say.

The part we differ on is that if a young man plays 7 years reps for a District club then I would hope in that time he has built an bond/affiliation with that club especially if he has won State Championships with that club.

It should not matter if the senior club has been overly involved. You are playing in the jersey, developing bonds and friendships and it should matter and it does matter for many loyal young men - for others it clearly does not mean enough.

I think a clubs culture is ultimately built around the guys to whom it does matter.
 

Jaghond

Ted Fahey (11)
@Gibbo,

If your assertions above (#289) are correct, then I unreservedly apologise.

I may well have taken some of @Brian Westlake's comments at #261 on board in my comments - however, I did infer from your comment at #252 "that 7 out of 10 are Gordon Juniors" as implying some sort of responsibilty for their development - and maybe inferring "some sort of ownership" was a bridge to far.

Again, as I tried to stress on my comments - they weren't aimed at you personally in any way shape or form - they were aimed at the "perceptions" - mine anyway - that District Clubs have had any significant role in the development of many Junior players. I don't believe they have.

Given that Reps only applies to a very small majority of Village Club players (generally speaaking) - surely we should be recogniizing and developing the other 95% odd group of children who DON'T play Reps - to try and keep them involved and providing the player mass required at the base of the pyramid which is rugby for enjoyment purposes - rather than the very small % of players who are (indeed extremely) fortunate enough to be involved at a professional level ?

PS - Hope the Highlanders continue their good form into Rd 2 - and that the actions taken by the FOG's etc bring renewed depth to a very worthy Club.

Cheers
The Hound
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
What @Jaghound has described occurs at nearly all Districts. The Junior Village Clubs, and consortia of such typically run the Rep Programme for Junior State Championships with little or no input from the Senior clubs.

Successful Grade Clubs typically have strong, well resourced and integrated Colts programmes with engaged Village Clubs. The Corporations revival started that way last century, others have always had this, or have recently done such. Unsuccessful clubs that need to acquire players to bolster their First Grade roster typically have comparatively poor colts programmes and a lack of engagement with the Junior Village Clubs in their "footprint".
 

Blackers13

Syd Malcolm (24)
Any predictions for this weekend? I'll start the ball rolling:

Gordon to beat Woodies by 12+
Norths to surprise Warringah narrowly
Manly just over Penrith ;)
Randwick too strong for Pirates
Parra in the upset of the round over Southern D's
Uni by 20+ over Beasties
 

couldabeen

Alfred Walker (16)
Any predictions for this weekend? I'll start the ball rolling:

Gordon to beat Woodies by 12+
Norths to surprise Warringah narrowly
Manly just over Penrith ;)
Randwick too strong for Pirates
Parra in the upset of the round over Southern D's
Uni by 20+ over Beasties
Put the ;) beside Parra v Hobbits and I agree.
 

Hugh Jarse

Rocky Elsom (76)
Tipping time - Round 2:

More one sided scorelines while the heavyweights fine tune their combinations, structures and shapes. The not so heavyweights will get a fair chance to give their defence and kick offs a good work out.

Gordon v Eastwood. Not the best results from trials or Round 1 from Woodies. Gordon have recruited well and retained plenty from last year. Gordon by > 15

Northern Suburbs v Warringah. Norths strong like last year, bolstered by some good recruits. Shoremen by >15.

Manly v Penrith. Even if Manly are only 1/2 as good as BuildCorp they will come away with a reasonably comfortable victory. Tipping Emus to score their first points for the season. Manly by > 30.

Randwick v West Harbour. Wicks will win very comfortably over Pirates who haven't had the best of off seasons or Round 1 performances. Wicks by > 25

Parramatta v Southern Districts. The Hobbits will come out of the blocks like the Schoolies on the Gold Coast, but like the Schoolies they will run out of puff after oranges and the Mighty 2 Blues will mount a comeback but it will be a case of too little too late. Hobbits by 15-20.

Sydney University v Eastern Suburbs. Beasties may feel that Bowral is a home game for them but they struggled against a resurgent Gordon last week, and they will be roadkill for the Corporation. Buildcorp by > 30.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top