I work with someone deep inside the Campbelltown setup (Let's call him Mr X). To lay some rumours to rest:
1) At the start of the year, a motion was raised to move to IDRU, and defeated.
2) They were told to run all grades or else, and they took "or else". Other clubs also took that route, but paid the fees to Subbies in order to just be listed as forfeit instead of having championship points taken off them.
3) Previously, when told to run 5th Grade or else, they picked up the disbanded Liverpool players from the year before. This gave Tim Richards the shits because Liverpool had some disciplinary issues apparently.
4) Ultimately they've had a shit year with injuries and internal politics to the point of firing multiple coaches, and now they're trying to pull it back out of the fire. Cultural change coming.
There appears to be no doubt that they'll be relegated, even with Beecroft's poor showing to date.
Mr X suggested that First Division should be for clubs who want to spend all the money on players in their little dick-swinging competition while the rest of the clubs got on with being clubs.
When I suggested promotion/relegation with Premier Rugby, Mr X said that Premier Rugby don't want any more east/north clubs, and would rather have a more competitive, properly SYDNEY-WIDE competition i.e. with more Western Sydney clubs. They don't want Drummoyne, for example, with West Harbour just up the street.
Mr X also said that there is more money floating around in Subbies than there is in Premier Rugby at the moment but unless the north shore in particular reorganised itself, clubs were going to be put under a lot of pressure.
We know that Parramatta and Penrith are perennial strugglers, but look at Gordon - they are coming apart at the seams results-wise, and they're really crowded in by other clubs.
Mr X is a big fan of the 3 Grade maximum, and uncoupling the Championship system from Colts.
Ah pfitzy, so many things to respond to.
Knowing that we have fundamental different point of view on most things that is not surprising.
Who raised the motion to go IDRU, committee, coaches, players?? and who defeated it and why.
It seems like they decided to play in Div 1 ball park, but right from the begining they knew they couldn't play by the rules, seems like a dumb move to me.
Nothing against the club or the players
From the other points your source mentioned, 5th grade, sacking coaches etc it would be fair to say they have a admin problem which results in a culture problem which results in a player problem.
No change of competition or dropping the number of grades will turn around their fortunes until they sort out the admin.
Secondly, I take offence at his/your assertion that to be a Div 1 clubs you engage in a little dick swinging competition.
All through this thread you have a chip on your shoulder about Div 1 clubs fielding 4 + grades. I don't know what club you have been involved with or what experiences you have had with Div 1 clubs but if they can field 4 or 5 grades plus colts what impact does it have the smaller clubs, wether they be from east,west or south.
I also take offence at the continual use of "class warfare" - it is always the fault of north shore and eastern suburbs clubs. Sydney is a big city with different demographics resulting in many differences.
Promo/Rel to Premier Rugby.
Whilst I think there could be an argument to reintroduce it i can see merit in the argument that adding (at different times) Drummoyne, Pats and Balmain to Premier rugby doesn't grow the competition across Sydney.
Yes, Penrith have struggled, it is a tough gig for them, made worse when NSWRU cut off support for their development officers, (but that is another story). However they have started to rebuild their colts program, realising that a grass roots approach to growth is more sustainable. It is early days but it looks like they are heading in the right direction.
I would not call Parramatta a struggler they are reaping the rewards of a rebuilding program and getting some good results in both grade and colts.
Gordon are struggling at the moment, I believe caused by poor admin over the last few years, but they have changed the board and making some progress. Again they are starting to rebuild their colts and the early signs are there.
The outtake is these clubs recognise their situation and are taking action to over come it
3 grade/uncoupling colts
Let me deal with uncoupling colts, the common theme with Penrtih, Parra and Gordon (and some subbies clubs as expressed in this thread earlier) is that to rebuild/maintain your position it is essential to have a strong colts program.
If we accept that why in the hell would any club want to "uncouple" their colts.
Having colts as part of club champo provides the incentive for clubs to focus on colts.
Restricting clubs to only having 3 grades, firstly what are you going to say to the 300 or so players currently running around in Div 1 and Div 2 4th grade teams - " sorry no game for game you next year, it is not fair on the lower division teams" - great way to grow participation.
I say again if there is a demand for 4/5 grade clubs let them play.
I havnt had much experience with the subbies admin and I am sure they have made some dumb decisions over the years but when you look a the numbers of games that are organised each week and generally happen with out much drama we have a pretty damm good competition.
Yes, again as we have discussed previously, there a number of improvements that could be made to help smaller, geographically challenged clubs but why do we need to tear down the whole thing.