Sydney Subbies 2016
- Thread starter Hugh Jarse
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Pfitzy
George Gregan (70)
Only if their current recruitment strategy holds up
SubbiesVeteran
Herbert Moran (7)
Anybody have any idea when the Hunters Hill v Forest 1st Grade will be replayed? Was due to be played last night (Tuesday) but didn't happen
That game has a big outcome on Div 2 Finals Race with 4 Teams in the Hunt for 4th Spot
That game has a big outcome on Div 2 Finals Race with 4 Teams in the Hunt for 4th Spot
Seagull Butler
Chris McKivat (8)
Latest is that we are playing on the next wet weather round instead.
SubbiesVeteran
Herbert Moran (7)
3rd Man in Any Tips for this weekend
Ive Got
Div 1- Lindfield def St Pats in the bottom of the table clash, massive impact on club champs for these 2 clubs as well, if wither team come away with a clean sweep I can see them being the club heading down to Div 2 next season
Div 2- Waverley def HH top of the table clash, Honurable mention to Forest v Newport for game of the round. Local Derby and has a massive impact on the finals chase for the Top 4
Div 3- Redfield def Epping in the battle for the Top 4, Epping have a lets say easier run home then any of the Top 4 contenders, be tough too see them beating Redfield at Home
Div 4 Mac Uni def Briars battle of the bottom 2. this will be an absolute bludger of a game
Ive Got
Div 1- Lindfield def St Pats in the bottom of the table clash, massive impact on club champs for these 2 clubs as well, if wither team come away with a clean sweep I can see them being the club heading down to Div 2 next season
Div 2- Waverley def HH top of the table clash, Honurable mention to Forest v Newport for game of the round. Local Derby and has a massive impact on the finals chase for the Top 4
Div 3- Redfield def Epping in the battle for the Top 4, Epping have a lets say easier run home then any of the Top 4 contenders, be tough too see them beating Redfield at Home
Div 4 Mac Uni def Briars battle of the bottom 2. this will be an absolute bludger of a game
Pfitzy
George Gregan (70)
Hell of a Saturday - old Pfitzy got to Waterloo to see some First Graders on the bench for Renegades Thirds, before realising half his Second Grade was either stuck in traffic or not coming.
As it was, I pulled on a spare set of boots some smartarsed halfback had with him (he's Justin Marshall size) and played a full game at prop.
3 Grades, thrown together, 3 wins away. A very sore Pfitzy the next day, but its not often you get to hear the Renegades' victory song at an away ground 3 times.
As it was, I pulled on a spare set of boots some smartarsed halfback had with him (he's Justin Marshall size) and played a full game at prop.
3 Grades, thrown together, 3 wins away. A very sore Pfitzy the next day, but its not often you get to hear the Renegades' victory song at an away ground 3 times.
Pfitzy
George Gregan (70)
Ran the flag for three grades yesterday - my co-coach was there to organise Seconds.
Irish put up a hell of a fight in the two lower grades, but we had enough size and individual talent to best them and even deny them a bonus point in 2s while picking up one ourselves.
I had to advise the ref to call uncontested for Thirds, after Irish almost did and then decided not to themselves. It was clear that the Irish THP was getting lifted up off his feet and I had nightmares of someone getting badly hurt, and the ref getting in the shit for it. Was only a couple of minutes to go and a draw was their best result. I kind of felt bad doing it but then I couldn't have that on my conscience.
We didn't make it easy for ourselves in 2s, with four bloody yellow cards, two of which could have been red (man in the air + lifting tackle) but were just borderline enough to pull it back. There was a lot of chatter in the game and I can't blame the ref for handing out a card or two for backchat and other rubbish.
First Grade was a different story, with Irish combining excellent fitness and organisation, plus the comp's largest 8th man, to roll over a very poorly disciplined Renegades team early. Another four yellow cards for us (some stupid tackling, again), and what might be further action for dissent toward the end of the game by both teams.
Our 2nd Grade will make finals at this point, and First Grade can if they play to their ability, and it would help if they both just concentrated on playing rugby. Third Grade just have to keep winning and they are in with a shot at top 4, particularly if other results go their way.
But we've got Briars this weekend, who are in the hunt for 2s and 3s finals and so that is going to be a tough one.
Blacktown the week after which is almost a washout for us at this point - they've got a pretty special roster this year and all 3 titles are theirs to lose.
Irish put up a hell of a fight in the two lower grades, but we had enough size and individual talent to best them and even deny them a bonus point in 2s while picking up one ourselves.
I had to advise the ref to call uncontested for Thirds, after Irish almost did and then decided not to themselves. It was clear that the Irish THP was getting lifted up off his feet and I had nightmares of someone getting badly hurt, and the ref getting in the shit for it. Was only a couple of minutes to go and a draw was their best result. I kind of felt bad doing it but then I couldn't have that on my conscience.
We didn't make it easy for ourselves in 2s, with four bloody yellow cards, two of which could have been red (man in the air + lifting tackle) but were just borderline enough to pull it back. There was a lot of chatter in the game and I can't blame the ref for handing out a card or two for backchat and other rubbish.
First Grade was a different story, with Irish combining excellent fitness and organisation, plus the comp's largest 8th man, to roll over a very poorly disciplined Renegades team early. Another four yellow cards for us (some stupid tackling, again), and what might be further action for dissent toward the end of the game by both teams.
Our 2nd Grade will make finals at this point, and First Grade can if they play to their ability, and it would help if they both just concentrated on playing rugby. Third Grade just have to keep winning and they are in with a shot at top 4, particularly if other results go their way.
But we've got Briars this weekend, who are in the hunt for 2s and 3s finals and so that is going to be a tough one.
Blacktown the week after which is almost a washout for us at this point - they've got a pretty special roster this year and all 3 titles are theirs to lose.
Seagull Butler
Chris McKivat (8)
Subbies need to make sure all the refs are across the rules for uncontested scrums. Newport have gone uncontested in both 3s and 2s and the second grade ref refused to make them drop the player for near on 20 minutes. After another ref finally had a word to him at half time, Newport miraculously found another prop and went back to contested scrums.
thetraitor
Chris McKivat (8)
Is the Holden Cup (rugby league) a professional competition? Rumour has it that a few 2015 players have appeared in Subbies just in time to qualify for finals. If it's not pro that's fine of course.
Cranky Penguin
Stan Wickham (3)
It's rugby league. Doesn't matter if it's professional or not. The timing of their rumoured entry is interesting though.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
thetraitor
Chris McKivat (8)
Ok good to know.
Pfitzy
George Gregan (70)
Actually I put this in the Referees' Association basket - if they're going to hold their members aloft from constructive criticism, then they also have to educate them.
Rugby Ref
Herbert Moran (7)
How about educating the players, coached, managers and sideline spectators on the code of conduct, and how to behave in a civil manner towards the match officials?
And word has quickly spread amongst all of the Subbies referees about the 5 x YC and 1 x RC in Saturdays 1st grade game between Rouse Hill vs Blacktown. And the police were called to the game as well.
And word has quickly spread amongst all of the Subbies referees about the 5 x YC and 1 x RC in Saturdays 1st grade game between Rouse Hill vs Blacktown. And the police were called to the game as well.
Pfitzy
George Gregan (70)
And its not unexpected for word to spread with such incidents. As long as its not just rumour or innuendo.
I was actually running the flag for that game, as a badged AR, backing up after coaching Rouse Hill Second Grade, and was speaking to the ref and other TJ (the Ref from 2nd Grade) after the game, once things settled down.
While Subbies still have to go through their procedures, I will say only what facts there are to say publicly:
The Police were called for an incident that occurred after the full-time whistle.
The Committee of Rouse Hill are working very closely with Subbies to ensure that they assist to the best of their ability.
There were 6 Yellow Cards (3 each way) according to our sheet - I think Blacktown are missing one, and the Red Card to Rouse Hill.
The ref was doing his best to handle what was (at times) a heated game, and took action to de-escalate tensions using cards for appropriate offences. I didn't see everything as well as he did, because naturally he's closer to everything. I didn't see anything that looked like a howler, and I'm pretty level-headed when it comes to these things
================================
As a long-time club member, former coach, Registrar, and a number of other roles at the club, I will say this from the heart: the actions that led to Police being called are in no way aligned with our club culture.
The club had families, including women, children, parents, and grandparents on the sideline. The club supports charities - its written into our constitution to give 10% of fundraising to CHW as one example (http://renegades.net.au/index.php?pageid=5)
We are inclusive and open to all new members, and encourage them to engage with us, and assist our goals: Have fun, play rugby, and support a good cause.
On the field we aim to play hard, clean rugby. We don't always get it right, and we definitely don't endorse anything like this occurring after the whistle.
We have had problem players before, and they are no longer with the club.
But note: a club cannot judge a player on a punch he hasn't thrown, or an action he hasn't taken. We can only go on good faith, and show the appropriate judgement when that faith is broken.
================================
On refs in general:
Sometimes you have a bad day with the ref. Sometimes the ball doesn't bounce your way, and you get frustrated. That's rugby.
In this case, the First Grade ref we had was also the same one as our last game against Sydney Irish, for which we received 4 Yellow Cards. I ran the flag in that game too.
That is 7 Yellow Cards and 1 Red Card in the space of 2 games, for a First Grade team that only conceded 7 Yellow Cards in the previous 9 games for the season (3 games with no cards at all), including a few games that were exceptionally close.
Was he wrong? Nope.
Some refs respond differently to others, some are more officious than others, some see things differently. No two refs, or two teams, are the same. The dynamic of the game changes depending who is playing and how the ball bounces.
Definitely we'd like to have no yellow cards - but sometimes you're going to get a tackle that goes wrong, or a repeated infringement, and that's the way it is. You educate, iterate, and try to get better.
As a coach, after any day where we've had incidents with the ref, I go to my players and tell them to forget about blaming the ref. There are no superstars in park rugby, and that we should show more respect and spend time controlling the things we actually have a say in, and making sure any rough calls don't affect the outcome.
"If you're talking to the ref, you're wasting breath to play rugby" is my instruction to all of them.
I was actually running the flag for that game, as a badged AR, backing up after coaching Rouse Hill Second Grade, and was speaking to the ref and other TJ (the Ref from 2nd Grade) after the game, once things settled down.
While Subbies still have to go through their procedures, I will say only what facts there are to say publicly:
The Police were called for an incident that occurred after the full-time whistle.
The Committee of Rouse Hill are working very closely with Subbies to ensure that they assist to the best of their ability.
There were 6 Yellow Cards (3 each way) according to our sheet - I think Blacktown are missing one, and the Red Card to Rouse Hill.
The ref was doing his best to handle what was (at times) a heated game, and took action to de-escalate tensions using cards for appropriate offences. I didn't see everything as well as he did, because naturally he's closer to everything. I didn't see anything that looked like a howler, and I'm pretty level-headed when it comes to these things
================================
As a long-time club member, former coach, Registrar, and a number of other roles at the club, I will say this from the heart: the actions that led to Police being called are in no way aligned with our club culture.
The club had families, including women, children, parents, and grandparents on the sideline. The club supports charities - its written into our constitution to give 10% of fundraising to CHW as one example (http://renegades.net.au/index.php?pageid=5)
We are inclusive and open to all new members, and encourage them to engage with us, and assist our goals: Have fun, play rugby, and support a good cause.
On the field we aim to play hard, clean rugby. We don't always get it right, and we definitely don't endorse anything like this occurring after the whistle.
We have had problem players before, and they are no longer with the club.
But note: a club cannot judge a player on a punch he hasn't thrown, or an action he hasn't taken. We can only go on good faith, and show the appropriate judgement when that faith is broken.
================================
On refs in general:
Sometimes you have a bad day with the ref. Sometimes the ball doesn't bounce your way, and you get frustrated. That's rugby.
In this case, the First Grade ref we had was also the same one as our last game against Sydney Irish, for which we received 4 Yellow Cards. I ran the flag in that game too.
That is 7 Yellow Cards and 1 Red Card in the space of 2 games, for a First Grade team that only conceded 7 Yellow Cards in the previous 9 games for the season (3 games with no cards at all), including a few games that were exceptionally close.
Was he wrong? Nope.
Some refs respond differently to others, some are more officious than others, some see things differently. No two refs, or two teams, are the same. The dynamic of the game changes depending who is playing and how the ball bounces.
Definitely we'd like to have no yellow cards - but sometimes you're going to get a tackle that goes wrong, or a repeated infringement, and that's the way it is. You educate, iterate, and try to get better.
As a coach, after any day where we've had incidents with the ref, I go to my players and tell them to forget about blaming the ref. There are no superstars in park rugby, and that we should show more respect and spend time controlling the things we actually have a say in, and making sure any rough calls don't affect the outcome.
"If you're talking to the ref, you're wasting breath to play rugby" is my instruction to all of them.
Pfitzy
George Gregan (70)
I should also add: I've seen the reports, and given the seriousness of what is in them, I wouldn't blame Subbies for booting us from the rest of the season. Certainly we'd have dodged a bullet if any grade got to keep its current points and a shot at the finals.
We'll be lucky to survive as a club at this point, I fear.
We'll be lucky to survive as a club at this point, I fear.
rugbyking2
Allen Oxlade (6)
While I do not know the whole scope of the story and actions do deserve punishment, it would be unfair to essentially render your club's season null and void.
It also pains me to hear that your club is appearing to be struggling to survive. As a referee I reffed one your Renegades third grade fixtures earlier in the year and as a young man dealing with older, more experienced players, and people. received nothing but respect in what was a fun, enjoyable game of Rugby played in a spirit many would envy. I know my word counts for nought in the grand scheme of Suburban Rugby but I sincerely hope your club pushes forward through this tough period.
The old story of a few bad eggs spoiling it for everyone else.
Pfitzy
George Gregan (70)
It is that HJ, but also I've been going through some records and the procedures aren't good enough either. Its not directly related to this event, but certainly we need to lift our game.
Thanks king Generally speaking we've had a pretty good run this year, but its all turned to muck in the space of about 5 minutes.
Maybe I'm being overly fatalistic, but at least I'm prepared for the worst that way.
Thanks king
Generally speaking we've had a pretty good run this year, but its all turned to muck in the space of about 5 minutes.Maybe I'm being overly fatalistic, but at least I'm prepared for the worst that way.
rugbyking2
Allen Oxlade (6)
It is that HJ, but also I've been going through some records and the procedures aren't good enough either. Its not directly related to this event, but certainly we need to lift our game.
Thanks king
Maybe I'm being overly fatalistic, but at least I'm prepared for the worst that way.
Hope the Rugby Gods are kind, an incident like this can more than likely turn a lot of blokes, sponsors and the community against a club.
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