Sydney Subbies 2025

[sterlingmortlocksgloves]

Hence my push to max out clubs at 3 Grades + Colts. And Premier Clubs at 3 Grades + U20 + U19.

the sorry we’re full method, that’ll work for the 35 old whose played 10 years with a club and wants to phase out into the lower grades.

 

[Pfitzy]

the sorry we’re full method, that’ll work for the 35 old whose played 10 years with a club and wants to phase out into the lower grades.

Have another comp for O35 (4th Grade) and O45 (5th Grade) if that's what clubs can suppot - like Hexagon. If they want to phase out, they're probably a social player anyway.

Or keep the bar where it is. That has worked swimmingly.

 

[sterlingmortlocksgloves]

Have another comp for O35 (4th Grade) and O45 (5th Grade) if that's what clubs can suppot - like Hexagon. If they want to phase out, they're probably a social player anyway.

Or keep the bar where it is. That has worked swimmingly.

So the suggestion would be Div 1 3 grades (most clubs field a 5s bar Drummoyne and Newport). Majority of those blokes are either social first year out of colts blokes and the weekend warriors getting away from corporate life and shipping them off where? Can’t image many blokes would be keen on the idea of being told you need to go for a 60 minute drive to the next club who can’t field 2 grades to fill in numbers.

 

[Pfitzy]

Not forcing anyone to go anywhere. Read what I wrote.

 

[pnut]

Have another comp for O35 (4th Grade) and O45 (5th Grade) if that's what clubs can suppot - like Hexagon. If they want to phase out, they're probably a social player anyway.

Or keep the bar where it is. That has worked swimmingly.

Subbies is social isn’t that the point?

 

[Odyssey_Park the 2nd]

So the suggestion would be Div 1 3 grades (most clubs field a 5s bar Drummoyne and Newport). Majority of those blokes are either social first year out of colts blokes and the weekend warriors getting away from corporate life and shipping them off where? Can’t image many blokes would be keen on the idea of being told you need to go for a 60 minute drive to the next club who can’t field 2 grades to fill in numbers.

The discussion was around what is sustainable and also allow movement between divisions. A number of clubs can field 5 grades and colts and good in them and ideally 1st Division would reflect this . But that number is getting smaller and smaller by the year. Most clubs can only field 2-3 grades regularly. How then do you allow clubs at the bottom of Division 1 transfer out with the clubs at the top of Division 2.

What happens like we are seeing in the lower Divisions when Div 1 only has 5-6 teams capable of competing? Is that competition viable long term?

Running a rugby club is cyclical, what clubs at the top forget is that it doesn’t last forever. The belief that all the clubs in Div 1 will always have 5 grades and players to compete at that level is laughable.

 

[Pfitzy]

Subbies AGM November 24th.

There's a Special General Meeting beforehand to clean up a few items in the Constution - mostly administrative to implement some best practice measures for the makeup of Board, Judiciary, and Appeals. There's some specifics about adopting neutral language and creating more representation for women on the Board, and a couple to bring things into line with the Union's status as a not-for-profit and the Associations Incorporation Act.

 

[Odyssey_Park the 2nd]

Subbies AGM November 24th.

There's a Special General Meeting beforehand to clean up a few items in the Constution - mostly administrative to implement some best practice measures for the makeup of Board, Judiciary, and Appeals. There's some specifics about adopting neutral language and creating more representation for women on the Board, and a couple to bring things into line with the Union's status as a not-for-profit and the Associations Incorporation Act.

It won’t happen but I’d love to see Subbies with a plan for Div 1 by the AGM and Div 2 by Christmas. The rest of the divisions can be outlined by end of January.
This doesn’t lock anyone into a position and clubs would have to prove by end of February they have the numbers etc to meet their grading or risk being demoted or promoted if numbers are OK.
But this doesn’t leave us sitting on our hands till mid March trying to figure out divisions and draws. This would give us something to work/plan with. We can’t leave it till March to be working things out again.

 

[Pfitzy]

We might be able to go back to a situation where First Div has a draft draw before Christmas provided everyone is happy with the makeup of First Division.

With so much uncertainty below that, February is probably where the rest sit, and I don't see that changing short of a massive uptake in numbers.

 

[footy_footy]

I'd imagine the Board would be having discussions with the clubs in the conversation for promotion/relegation between Div 1 & Div 2. Any intel as to whether Newport are willing to come back to Div 2? My understanding is both Petersham and UNSW would both happily take a spot in Div 1, if offered/available.

 

[Odyssey_Park the 2nd]

We might be able to go back to a situation where First Div has a draft draw before Christmas provided everyone is happy with the makeup of First Division.

With so much uncertainty below that, February is probably where the rest sit, and I don't see that changing short of a massive uptake in numbers.

My point is that there needs to be a base/plan to work off. Base it off last years divisions/results and what you expect the divisions to be next year. You don’t want 6 team divisions if you can avoid it so how does that look.
Last year we waited till Feb/March to start making decisions and then clubs had time to prove their numbers etc which pushes you to close to the season start. When it’s just 1 team moving it’s simple but we are looking at huge changes each year.
This doesn’t lock anyone into a spot and there should be deadlines for confirming numbers. I.e by end of Feb you need to show you have 20 Colts registered to run a Colts team.

 

[Pfitzy]

Ah I see what you mean, so basically you'd state the criteria to try and give clubs certainty, rather than let them recruit on spec.

I would very much like a system where registration is open by end of January and I can start getting some cash er... players through the door

 

[Odyssey_Park the 2nd]

Ah I see what you mean, so basically you'd state the criteria to try and give clubs certainty, rather than let them recruit on spec.

I would very much like a system where registration is open by end of January and I can start getting some cash er... players through the door

For instance Subbies would discuss with clubs who want to move up to Division 3 and then nominate the teams they expect to be in that division this year and then those clubs have till February to prove they have the requisite numbers for that division or they get replaced by someone who can.

 

[Odyssey_Park the 2nd]

So if you’re in charge next year what do the Divisions look like? Purely all speculation.

Div 1- Hunters, Blue Mountains, Waverley, Mosman, Colleagues, Drummoyne, Lindfield & Newport
Div 2- UNSW, Petersham, Briars, Forrest, St Pats, Sydney Irish & Hills
Div 3- Beecroft, Hornsby, Knox, LCOI, Kings, Redfield & Hawkesbury Valley
Div 4- Wakehurst, Balmain, Chatswood, Mac Uni, St Ives, Barker & Burraneer
Div 5- Harlequins, Renegades, Epping, Raptors, Canterbury, Blacktown, Penrith & Manly Savers
Div 6- Merrylands, Harbour, Georges River, North Cronulla, Oatley, Maccabi & Convicts

Obviously some clubs that will need to find colts and could be jumped by some of the lower clubs pending their recruitment. But based on results and numbers this year the above gets us back closer to the dream 8 team scenarios.

 

[Pfitzy]

Div 1 & 2 feel about right, pending any decisions about promotion/relegation. It was bloody tight at the bottom of Div 1 CC and fairly hotly contested at the top of Div 2.

Do any of those clubs want to change?

Hills getting promoted might not be what they want, but you can't go around stomping Div 3 with only 2 Grades and expect to have everyone roll over for you.

Div 3 becomes interesting depending on the Colts situation - Beecroft Firsts were strong but they didn't go deep in terms of quality across the club. The only guarantees here are Hornsby, Knox, and LCOI I think, and then we're looking at aspirational Div 4 or 5 clubs to get there on numbers.

Renegades are looking to jump up to Third Div with 2 Grades + Colts, but I'm sure everyone is sick of me saying that!

Div 4- Wakehurst, Balmain, Chatswood, Mac Uni, St Ives, Barker & Burraneer North Cronulla

The Burraneer Colts you saw filling in for Irish last year are more closely tied with the Sea Lice - these being the Burraneer Dolphins juniors graduates, with the Burraneer team in Div 6 being the breakaway Hammerheads outfit due to political goings-on a few years back.

I have seen Manly Savers advertising Colts as well, and so they could very well fit into Div 3 or 4 if they get there. Question marks over the St Ives/Brothers JV and you'd like to see them both get back to fielding 2 sides (Grade or Grade + Colts).

I also see on the team sheets that Wakehurst will have a lot of Colts turning 22 next year so might not be able to continue there.

Div 5- Harlequins, Renegades, Epping, Raptors, Canterbury, Blacktown, Penrith & Manly Savers

Raptors no longer exist - they're rebranding as the Chifley Chiefs which I'm sure relates to Chifley College out this way rather than the eastern suburb

Div 6- Merrylands, Harbour, Georges River, North Cronulla, Oatley, Maccabi & Convicts

Surely Merrylands are out of excuses for staying as a 1-team club? They make finals, they host finals, they win finals, and they've got a Juniors footprint now.

 

[Pfitzy]

Pure spitballing

Division	One (4 + Colts)	Two (3 + Colts)	Three (2 + Colts)	Four (1 + Colts)	Five (2)	Six (1)
Team 1	Blue Mountains	Briars	Renegades	Balmain	Sydney Harlequins	Burraneer
Team 2	Colleagues	Forest	LCOIRFC	Brothers	Canterbury	Convicts
Team 3	Drummoyne	Hills	Hornsby	Chatswood	Blacktown	Georges River
Team 4	Hunters Hill	Petersham	Beecroft	Kings	Epping	Maccabi
Team 5	Lindfield	St Pats	Knox	Mac Uni	Merrylands	Oatley
Team 6	Mosman	Sydney Irish	Penrith?	Manly Savers	Chifley Chiefs	Sydney Harbour
Team 7	Newport	UNSW		North Cronulla	Hawkesbury Valley
Team 8	Waverley			Redfield	Wakehurst
Team 9				St Ives
Team 10				Old Barker

 

[Pfitzy]

Well you can probably adjust a few things there - Petersham announce on socials that they're going up to Div 1.

Petersham Rugby Union on Instagram: "WE ARE GOING UP Petersham RUFC are delighted to announce that the club will be back playing in Division 1 for 2026. The season is set to commence on the 25th April. #1883 #WhereverYouMayBe"

The Petersham RUFC is gearing up for a thrilling new season in Division 1. With a strong team spirit and years of dedication, the club is eager to showcase its skills. Starting on April 25th, fans can catch the action and witness the team's growth. What does this promotion mean for Petersham...

www.instagram.com

 

[Footyhead67]

Petersham announce on socials that they're going up to Div 1.

Regardless of what people think, it looks like Subbies may have Div 1 finalised before 2026.

 

[Odyssey_Park the 2nd]

Well you can probably adjust a few things there - Petersham announce on socials that they're going up to Div 1.

Petersham Rugby Union on Instagram: "WE ARE GOING UP Petersham RUFC are delighted to announce that the club will be back playing in Division 1 for 2026. The season is set to commence on the 25th April. #1883 #WhereverYouMayBe"

The Petersham RUFC is gearing up for a thrilling new season in Division 1. With a strong team spirit and years of dedication, the club is eager to showcase its skills. Starting on April 25th, fans can catch the action and witness the team's growth. What does this promotion mean for Petersham...

www.instagram.com

I think Petershams pride and desire to show Subbies shouldn’t have dropped them is going to hurt them. There lower grades struggled in Div 2 last year and there depth will be rested back in Div 1.

 

[Pfitzy]

I think Petershams pride and desire to show Subbies shouldn’t have dropped them is going to hurt them. There lower grades struggled in Div 2 last year and there depth will be rested back in Div 1.

Careful what you wish for?