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The Haka

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J

Jay

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Sully said:
No he said something very important! The home union decides what happens before a test! We don't have to have anything except the national anthems!
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I think this is something people should bear in mind when complaining about the Haka.

Outside of NZ it is effectively done at the invitation of the hosting union. And, other than that one instance in Wales 2006, none of them seem to have any problem with it.
 
Y

young gun

Fred Wood (13)
Jay said:
I think this is something people should bear in mind when complaining about the Haka.

Outside of NZ it is effectively done at the invitation of the hosting union. And, other than that one instance in Wales 2006, none of them seem to have any problem with it.
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I agree with your points but there was, at least, one other "incident" against England at Old Trafford a few years back. Richard Cockrill, the English prop got right up in the AB's faces - don't get me wrong, I'm a haka supporter and think these things are good - it creates a bit of theatre and tension which adds to it all. Also, as a bit of history, up until the 80's or 90's, the haka was only performed when the AB's toured - prior to that it wasn't done at home tests.
 
mark_s

mark_s

Chilla Wilson (44)
Jay said:
I think this is something people should bear in mind when complaining about the Haka.

Outside of NZ it is effectively done at the invitation of the hosting union. And, other than that one instance in Wales 2006, none of them seem to have any problem with it.
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Can the home unions request which haka is performed (Ka Mate or Kapa O Pango)?
 
J

Jay

Guest
young gun said:
I agree with your points but there was, at least, one other "incident" against England at Old Trafford a few years back. Richard Cockrill, the English prop got right up in the AB's faces - don't get me wrong, I'm a haka supporter and think these things are good - it creates a bit of theatre and tension which adds to it all. Also, as a bit of history, up until the 80's or 90's, the haka was only performed when the AB's toured - prior to that it wasn't done at home tests.
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It also wasn't treated particularly seriously until the mid-80's when Buck Shelford basically said "If you're gonna do it, do it fucking properly". I'm sure that hokey cokey youtube video of a 70's haka has been shown round these parts many times.

But, all cultural significance aside, the reality is that it's a part of the theatre surrounding an All Blacks match and the casual fans, from NZ and outside, seem to really like it. So it's probably not going to go anywhere.

I actually think it's gotten out of hand myself and would quite like it if it were only done for special occasions (rather like the way the team obviously only performs Kapa O Pango for matches it deems as significant) though I can see this would only add fuel to the arguments that it gives the AB's an unfair advantage.
 
J

Jay

Guest
mark_s said:
Can the home unions request which haka is performed (Ka Mate or Kapa O Pango)?
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They can request it. Won't make any difference though - like in Cardiff 06, it's up to the home union as to whether they allow the AB's to perform the Haka on the AB's terms but that doesn't mean the home union gets to compel the AB's to perform it on any other terms.
 
cyclopath

cyclopath

George Smith (75)
Staff member
Jay said:
They can request it. Won't make any difference though - like in Cardiff 06, it's up to the home union as to whether they allow the AB's to perform the Haka on the AB's terms but that doesn't mean the home union gets to compel the AB's to perform it on any other terms.
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That's all quite correct, Jay. The home union can request the Haka not be done.
I can imagine the equanimity with which this would be met by the NZRU and, in particularly, fans after frothing about the Wales "Haka-in-the-sheds" debacle. The gnashing of teeth on boards was epic. Disrespect and other hyperbole thrown around. The ABs were apparently "extra motivated to belt Wales" by the slight of it, as if they actually need motivation to beat them at Cardiff. I'm paraphrasing some of the discussion at the time.
You and I know that few, if any, home unions are going down that path again.
The fact that the IRB felt compelled to "legislate" the Haka suggests it is ingrained as a rugby tradition.
Personally, I am happy to see it.
Personally, I wish more teams would do what France did and the IRB would get the fuck out of it.
 
J

Jay

Guest
cyclopath said:
That's all quite correct, Jay. The home union can request the Haka not be done.
I can imagine the equanimity with which this would be met by the NZRU and, in particularly, fans after frothing about the Wales "Haka-in-the-sheds" debacle. The gnashing of teeth on boards was epic. Disrespect and other hyperbole thrown around. The ABs were apparently "extra motivated to belt Wales" by the slight of it, as if they actually need motivation to beat them at Cardiff. I'm paraphrasing some of the discussion at the time.
You and I know that few, if any, home unions are going down that path again.
The fact that the IRB felt compelled to "legislate" the Haka suggests it is ingrained as a rugby tradition.
Personally, I am happy to see it.
Personally, I wish more teams would do what France did and the IRB would get the fuck out of it.
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Agree with pretty much all of that - though I'd add that it's not just NZ fans that would get annoyed if it were not performed. I suspect the 'casual' fans overseas enjoy it as part of the spectacle too.
 
Inside Shoulder

Inside Shoulder

Nathan Sharpe (72)
F the casual fans
F the kiwi fans
Have you seen the seats the ARU are given in NZ?
We should do nothing to accommodate them and we should make their lives as difficult as possible.....on game day
 
Swat

Swat

Chilla Wilson (44)
Why does it need to be performed at all? Do the black caps do it before a test match? If it is a cultural thing why is it only prevalent in rugby?
 
Schadenfreude

Schadenfreude

John Solomon (38)
Would anyone give a shit about the haka if we were winning?

If you want to combat the haka invest your energy getting the wallabies some extra set piece coaching.
 
nugget

nugget

Jimmy Flynn (14)
Am really gonna miss those three guys that blew their wooden horn things at the start of the games.
 
mark_s

mark_s

Chilla Wilson (44)
nugget said:
Am really gonna miss those three guys that blew their wooden horn things at the start of the games.
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Yeah and I know its not cool to steal ideas from league but the dude the Warriors had to warm up the NZ fans was also cool to see and didn't see to impact the game in anyway.
 
teach

teach

Trevor Allan (34)
Mr Doug said:
My apologies teach. I also have now emailed the IRB with my concerns regarding the Haka!
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I got an out-of -office Autoreply, so not holding out hope that they will spring into action and meet my demands that the French team's fine be canceled.
 
Dan54

Dan54

Tim Horan (67)
Inside Shoulder said:
The "we" was a reference to Australia - I never said I was in the crowd.
My objection was to his sweeping erroneous suggestion that my source was a newspaper (noting that the press in NZ is owned by us - i.e. "we" - Australia - not me personally). The IRB banned the singing of Waltzing Matilda - pure and simple.

The haka is, now, wired up so it can be heard: it is nothing more than the performance of a ritual - just as the singing of a national song is
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By the way IS, sorry mate if I gave the indication that I thought you got info from papers, but that was inference I got as I never heard of IRB banning singing of Waltzing matilda outside of WC, or the singing of it by the crowd at WC, but had read about it in papers. If this is true please accept my apologies, and by all means let me know where I can get correct info so I don't stuff it up again.
 
Dan54

Dan54

Tim Horan (67)
Inside Shoulder said:
Kickoff didn't commence until after the song...
There was then a period when the song was performed while the game proceeded
Eventually this was scrapped....as the Haka should have been

But if I am wrong so be it - i no longer care
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Actually you are correct IS, but the ARU scrapped it.
 
matty_k

matty_k

Peter Johnson (47)
Staff member
I thought it was French

edit

Sorry you're right. English.
Someone took the time to create a wikipedia page for it.
 
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