The Haka

[Swat]

Following criticism after it was first performed the guy who wrote it is supposed to have said that the throat slit represented the cutting edge of sport. That is what was reported in the papers. They seemed to tone that bit down for a while but now seem to have gone back to it.

It would be great if you could get that quote. I don't so much mind the diagonal thumb across the body and I've seen that done on a couple of occasions but what Nonu did (and the throat slitting gesture in general) I don't think should have any role in professional sport. It goes beyond what it is supposed to represent as a part of the haka to what it does represent in modern day society, a threat to kill someone or in the least inflict physical pain on them. I know rugby is a contact sport but I don't want little kids seeing this and thinking that their aim is to go out there and hurt or even kill someone and I'm afraid that is what some will take away from it.

 

[Bon]

As a Haka I quite like it. It is unique to the AB's being specially written for them. The words are relative to the game and make more sense than Kamate. But yes if they kept the cutting edge below or across the chest it perhaps wouldn't look so threatening. My high school had it's own haka as did all the others I played against [1950.s] Performing a haka while the opposing team responded was heaps better than performing to a team just standing there. Bit of an empty gesture really.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

As a Haka I quite like it. It is unique to the AB's being specially written for them. The words are relative to the game and make more sense than Kamate. But yes if they kept the cutting edge below or across the chest it perhaps wouldn't look so threatening. My high school had it's own haka as did all the others I played against [1950.s] Performing a haka while the opposing team responded was heaps better than performing to a team just standing there. Bit of an empty gesture really.

Which is perhaps why its offensive - at least Kamate has a metaphysical element to it and is not just unadulterated glorification of a violent end.

 

[Jay]

It would be great if you could get that quote. I don't so much mind the diagonal thumb across the body and I've seen that done on a couple of occasions but what Nonu did (and the throat slitting gesture in general) I don't think should have any role in professional sport. It goes beyond what it is supposed to represent as a part of the haka to what it does represent in modern day society, a threat to kill someone or in the least inflict physical pain on them. I know rugby is a contact sport but I don't want little kids seeing this and thinking that their aim is to go out there and hurt or even kill someone and I'm afraid that is what some will take away from it.

Found something - http://tvnz.co.nz/view/page/454218/779048

While the haka's final movement has regularly been described as a cut-throat gesture, the review emphasised that its meaning within Maori culture and the tradition of haka is very different.
Composer Derek Lardelli said that Kapa O Pango ends with the word 'Ha' which translates as the breath of life. "The words and motions represent drawing vital energy into the heart and lungs."
The right arm searches for the 'Ha' on the left side of the body, Lardelli explained, while the head turns to the right also symbolically seeking vital energy.

The right hand hauls that energy into the pou-whakaora (the heart, lungs and air passages), then the eyes and tongue signal that the energy has been harnessed before it is expelled with the final 'Ha.'

 

[Athilnaur]

Jay I have a bridge to sell, there's a commission in it for you if Lardelli and whatever Maori trust he is with pays up.

 

[QuadeCooperFan]

didn't someone say earlier in the thread Quade is allowed to lead a counter haka because if his Maori heritage?

if true, the Wallabies should definitely consider this...I would absolutely love to see it

 

[nugget]

here's an interesting history of the haka

http://www.nzallblacks.net/Haka_All_Black

Also interesting: The 1908/9 Wallabies, captained by Dr Herbert Moran, performed an Aboriginal war cry. Moran, a noted Australian surgeon, feeling the Aborigines had not been well treated, spoke strongly against the war cry, and hid in the back row when he was called on to perform it. It is doubtful if "Wallaby" teams persisted with it but the "New South Welshers" in New Zealand in 1921 performed a war dance before some of their games at least.

 

[waratahjesus]

As a Haka I quite like it. It is unique to the AB's being specially written for them. The words are relative to the game and make more sense than Kamate. But yes if they kept the cutting edge below or across the chest it perhaps wouldn't look so threatening. My high school had it's own haka as did all the others I played against [1950.s] Performing a haka while the opposing team responded was heaps better than performing to a team just standing there. Bit of an empty gesture really.

This has what has always angered me about it, it is made up, it isn't unique or cultural. It's Moaris singing about a game introduced by the British that they probably performed a real Haka for many years ago to tell them to f#%k off.

The throat slash has to go, it's just offensive whatever the meaning of it to the countries there playing. If it's a challenge, it should include respect.

 

[pete88]

didn't someone say earlier in the thread Quade is allowed to lead a counter haka because if his Maori heritage?

if true, the Wallabies should definitely consider this...I would absolutely love to see it

I have a mental image of Quade leading the wallabies in an advance over the half way line stepping out and starting "Ka Mate" while the ABs to "Kapa O Pango" at a packed Eden Gardens. We'd be as likely to get belted by 50 as we would be to see a great Wallaby victory, but either way it would be AWESOME theatre and drama. So long as Quade didn't miss 6 tackles in the first half or something...

PS and yeah it was Gordon Bray writing an article having talked to a Maori elder.

 

[Athilnaur]

The throat slash has to go, it's just offensive whatever the meaning of it to the countries there playing. If it's a challenge, it should include respect.

You've nailed it right there WJ.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I have a mental image of Quade leading the wallabies in an advance over the half way line stepping out and starting "Ka Mate" while the ABs to "Kapa O Pango" at a packed Eden Gardens. We'd be as likely to get belted by 50 as we would be to see a great Wallaby victory, but either way it would be AWESOME theatre and drama. So long as Quade didn't miss 6 tackles in the first half or something...

PS and yeah it was Gordon Bray writing an article having talked to a Maori elder.

i reckon elders is a culturally discriminatory term: you never hear the queen called a pommy elder

 

[Mr Doug]

My final comment on The Haka: After respectfully listening to the Kiwi National Anthem sung in two languages, (as per the Saffas), and then the having to endure the modified, up-dated, modernised, (please show respect for), Haka, I'm ready to watch a footy match. I loved Eddie Jones' answer to "gaining equal-time" at a BC match at Suncorp Stadium a few years ago...he brought out the tackle bags for another two minute 'warm up session'!!! p.s: Question: Didn't the Australian women's rugby team get fined not so long ago for "disrespecting the Haka", and advancing toward the half-way line whilst the Kiwi ladies did a "culturally acceptable" (i.e female) version of The Haka?!....Please explain?

 

[Gagger]

This is one of the Bullshit threads I referred to

 

[waratahjesus]

This is one of the Bullshit threads I referred to

.?????

It's a thread on the Internet, it's the same as every thread on here, are you saying you have come to hat the thing you helped build?

 

[Gagger]

.?????

It's a thread on the Internet, it's the same as every thread on here, are you saying you have come to hat the thing you helped build?

I've recently come close to it!!

How many Haka threads does the world need?

 

[waratahjesus]

I've recently come close to it!!

How many Haka threads does the world need?

Always one more I would have thought, just like the Haka itself.

Think every NZ thread is ending up in this, maybe a NZ sub forum might be the go.

 

[Jnor]

That's called the Silver Fern

 

[Mr Doug]

This is one of the Bullshit threads I referred to

That's hardly a complement to those of us who try and create some balance here......would you rather this become BAWR...(Black and White Rugby)?

 

[Gagger]

That's hardly a complement to those of us who try and create some balance here......would you rather this become BAWR...(Black and White Rugby)?

Whenever a Haka thread starts up, it always ends up in the same death spiral.

To be fair though, I realise not everyone's been a keyboard warrior as long so they should have the chance to get stuck in to one - but eventually it just becomes monotonous.

 

[cyclopath]

Whenever a Haka thread starts up, it always ends up in the same death spiral.

To be fair though, I realise not everyone's been a keyboard warrior as long so they should have the chance to get stuck in to one - but eventually it just becomes monotonous.

Indeed. Any Haka thread just needs a reference to Hitler, and Internet nirvana would be achieved.
Oops.
A higher plane has been reached!