The Israel Folau saga

[sidelineview]

Not so sure about this QH. Whatever he decides to do, it will be because he believes that is his god's plan. Can be used to justify any course of action, including not going to court.

I think that's true.
He could just as easily walk away.

 

[Pfitzy]

Added another. But only if you're very cynical

And I am!

 

[sidelineview]

It's a pretty crazy mentality. 'God told me to do it' really means either a) he thinks he literally heard God speak to him or b) someone who claims to know what God wants for him told him what to do.

Either way something pretty dark is up.

It's not dark at all.
It's a simple show of faith that people are complicating and mocking.

He knows God wants him to follow the word of God. It's not rocket science or mysterious.

He believes he has the right to follow and express his beliefs, and he has the support of many people in society.

If he removed the infamous post and showed "remorse" it would be the easiest way out but he's chosen the truest way for him and the hard way. It's not the way of the world but through the ''narrow gate'' as expressed in the Bible (New Testament)

But he's got nothing to be remorseful about in his mind and in the mind of others.

What are the chances of him giving a full blown interview at a later stage. I hope so.

 

[Braveheart81]

It's not dark at all.
It's a simple show of faith that people are complicating and mocking.

He knows God wants him to follow the word of God. It's not rocket science or mysterious.

Have you actually looked at the posts and how they have changed over the last few years?

 

[sidelineview]

Yep, that's the thing. Hard to argue with somebody who has these beliefs. As I have said earlier, he would have a lot more credibility if he was living out his faith in actions that help people in need, rather than using words to attack others (as they see it).

How do you know what he does with his money exactly, or how his church uses money to help others?
His tithing to his church would be substantial.

It's better people reserve their judgements of him until they know more than shit about these details.

Unfortunately, its been open season on Christianity since the SSM issue cropped up and sporting and corporate bodies endorsed the rainbow mob.

There were plenty of people who voted NO for good reason but were seen to be preventing progress, homophobes or bigots etc.

The weight of public sentiment coupled with political correctness and popular ideas has gone against Christianity.
I can see public sentiment turning to support Folau now so we'll see what happens.

It's easy to see that bigotry is alive and well on this thread as it has been in society.

 

[Braveheart81]

It's amazing that religious people see the gradual loss of dominance and power in society as attacks on Christianity.

 

[Derpus]

Supposedly he's fallen in with this bloke:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brian_Tamaki

"Destiny New Zealand was promoted by a nationwide tour and DVD labelled "A Nation Under Siege". Tamaki features in the DVD and accompanied the tour. The DVD shows Tamaki decrying what he sees as four problems with New Zealand society: "a Government gone evil, a radical homosexual agenda, the media: a modern day witchcraft" and "the retreat of religion in New Zealand".
In 2004, Tamaki predicted the Destiny Church would be "ruling the nation" before its tenth anniversary in 2008.[10]"

"In a Close-Up TV interview[25] on the subject Tamaki denied that his church is a cult claiming that "if we are a cult then the Catholics, the Presbyterians, the Methodists, the Baptists, and the Pentecostals are all cults as well. Because we believe – we have the same actual orthodox tenets of belief."

But i don't really know how much truth there is in it.

 

[wamberal]

Sidelineview, I was not talking about his money, I was talking about his public stance when it comes to living out his faith.


As for bigotry, please explain whether people who are same sex attracted are born that way, or do they just wake up one Saturday morning and decide to be gay?


If people are born that way, is that God's will? If it is God's will, how they can stop being "homosexuals" so that they can avoid consignment to Hell?

How does threatening a young kid who is struggling with questions about sexuality help him or her?

 

[sidelineview]

Have you actually looked at the posts and how they have changed over the last few years?

Have you noticed how the SSM issue has changed our society?

Did you notice last year when he got into strife that he simply answered a question about gays on social media?
And answered honestly according to his faith and explained later it wasnt through hate.
It wasnt the politically correct, socially acceptable answer that some, or a lot of people wanted to hear.
RA didnt like his reply.
Qantas didnt like it.

Why was Folau or anyone else for that matter expected to jump onto the rainbow bandwagon just because the ARU and sponsor had done so?

Who was responsible for getting RA onto the pro-rainbow float and taking sides in politics?
Was it Folau?

What percentage of fans and players voted NO but were excluded as being relevant to the issue at the time?

Is Christianity out of step with our progressive society ? Yes it is.
Is Christianity allowed to be out of step with our modern changing society? Yes it is, but No it isnt according to political correctness and domineering popular ideas and sentiment.

Is Folau a bigoted bully or are RA and Qantas bigoted bullies who dont genuinely follow their own inclusive policies?

There are a lot of important questions that can be asked.

 

[Slim 293]

Have you noticed how the SSM issue has changed our society?

For the better?

Who was responsible for getting RA onto the pro-rainbow float and taking sides in politics?

Don't forget the FFA, CA, NRL, AFL and every other major Australian sporting body.........

or are RA and Qanats bigoted bullies who dont genuinely follow their own inclusive policies?

No, there's no evidence they've done that.

 

[Derpus]

^^^^
SLV, i really feel like you are missing the point for the most part.

 

[Tex]

Have you noticed how the SSM issue has changed our society?

Did you notice last year when he got into strife that he simply answered a question about gays on social media?
And answered honestly according to his faith and explained later it wasnt through hate.
It wasnt the politically correct, socially acceptable answer that some, or a lot of people wanted to hear.
RA didnt like his reply.
Qantas didnt like it.

Why was Folau or anyone else for that matter expected to jump onto the rainbow bandwagon just the ARU and sponsor had done so?

Who was responsible for getting RA onto the pro-rainbow float and taking sides in politics?
Was it Folau?

What percentage of fans and players voted NO but were excluded as being relevant to the issue at the time?

Is Christianity out of step with our progressive society and is our changing society? Yes it is.
Is Christianity allowed to be out of step with our modern changing society? Yes it is, but No it isnt according to political correctness and domineering popular ideas and sentiment.

Is Folau a bigoted bully or are RA and Qanats bigoted bullies who dont genuinely follow their own inclusive policies?

There are a lot of important questions that can be asked.

 

[formerflanker]

It's a pretty crazy mentality. 'God told me to do it' really means either a) he thinks he literally heard God speak to him or b) someone who claims to know what God wants for him told him what to do.

Either way something pretty dark is up.

or c) izzy read the Bible and is expressing exactly what it says.

FFS the number of comments about cults, dark places, brainwashing, dumb as dog shit, disturbed, mental illness, happy clappers, and delusional grandeur (just to quote some recent examples) are bordering on hysterical.

Izzy comes across as a deeply committed Christian who believes God's word as expressed in the Bible. He wants others to see the same grace and divert from sin.
Pretty standard thoughts of the general Australian community not so long ago.

 

[Derpus]

 

[Derpus]

Izzy comes across as a deeply committed Christian who believes God's word as expressed in the Bible. He wants others to see the same grace and divert from sin.
Pretty standard thoughts of the general Australian community not so long ago.

Yeah, but, if you actually read the bible and take it at face value it's pretty safe to assume you are kind of stupid. There's all sorts of shit in there that is just insane in a modern context.

Almost no one does this, from the Pope down.

 

[sidelineview]

Sidelineview, I was not talking about his money, I was talking about his public stance when it comes to living out his faith.


As for bigotry, please explain whether people who are same sex attracted are born that way, or do they just wake up one Saturday morning and decide to be gay?


If people are born that way, is that God's will? If it is God's will, how they can stop being "homosexuals" so that they can avoid consignment to Hell?

How does threatening a young kid who is struggling with questions about sexuality help him or her?

I cant answer those questions properly.
I know that Christians i have known accept homosexuals but not homosexual acts.
Doesnt make much sense does it? but thats what they believe.
Personally it doesnt bother me and I'd advise homosexuals not to let it bother them either.
I'd explain that Paul's letter in 1 Corinthians pertained to a general debauched lifestyle that those people had fallen into.
If a same sex couple were happy and not being promiscuous and otherwise living their lives in a good way, then be content.

But thats just me. however I voted NO because I didnt agree with marriage being redefined and could see that a leftist political agenda was pushing it, I could see the worrying social changes that had happened in other countries that had redefined marriage. I supported the idea of same sex couple having equal legal rights as far as inheritance etc was concerned.
I wasnt alone and there was no malice, homophobia or bigotry attached.

Do you really think that in this day and age young gay people dont have avenues for support and counselling.
What would you say to a young gay person in the light of Folau's comments?
Would you say not everyone in society will condone your sexuality but ....

Diversity either works for all or no one as long as genuine hatred and threats of violence are not involved.
Remembering that Folau never promoted hatred or harm to homosexuals.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, in other parts of the world gay people are persecuted and given the death sentence.

But not in Australia and not at the request of Folau and his fellow Christians. So do we really have it that bad here and is Folau's beliefs such a threat?
How are other countries in the world changing for the worse?

Do you really think everyone in a democratic society should think the same and should be forced, through whatever means to think the same?

i call BS on a lot of this but thats my opinion.

 

[Slim 293]

Pretty standard thoughts of the general Australian community not so long ago.

I wouldn't say his brand of Christianity has been the standard thoughts of mainstream Australia in generations.........

And then we're on a slippery slope as to what was accepted in Australia in those times.

 

[wamberal]

I wouldn't say his brand of Christianity has been the standard thoughts of mainstream Australia in generations...

And then we're on a slippery slope as to what was accepted in Australia in those times.

Illegal abortions, sly grog, SP bookmaking, 6 O'Clock closing, adultery as the only feasible way to get cause for a divorce. Oh, and homosexuality was also illegal. Anybody who looked like a p******** could be bashed on sight. And thrown over a cliff, if one was near.

 

[Bandar]

^^^ Aboriginals we not counted as Australians - IF would not have been welcome here (unless he was taken against his will to work for free on a sugar farm)

 

[sidelineview]

^^^^
SLV, i really feel like you are missing the point for the most part.

I'll respect your opinion.
I have a broad view of this; not a narrow rugby/employment/contractual view.

In a way I hope Folau walks away but in another way I hope this imminent decision is challenged in court and it goes all the way.

I also think it's BS that he would be incompatible with his team mates in the unlikely event he should return to the rugby fold.

The media as usual has milked this for all its worth. Were Genia's opinions the result of a reaction at the time or will he maintain his stance?

I'd guess they'd shake hands, agree to disagree and get on with doing what they love and play footy.
I doubt it'd be handbags at 10 paces and no talkies, but thats what journalists do. Thats their job; to sell stories.

It's just like two blokes on the field having a stink. Calling each other every name under the sun and trying to rip each other's heads off. The media would jump on it and make up all sorts of stories.
The two blokes in question, on the other hand, would probably shake hands after the game and have a beer with each other.
That's the Australian way.

As i said, there's a lot of bullshit attached to this.