The ranting at Deans/ARU/O'Neill/Players thread

[Inside Shoulder]

I was a huge supporter of Deans for coach.
I was a huge critic of his performance and I thought that it was completely wrong for the ARU to renew him before the RWC. In my view his fate should have awaited the Wobblies performance in the RWC. They got to a semi and lost to the eventual winners. They came 3rd.
To my way of thinking those results are line ball: to decide what they mean you would actually need to look at the way they were achieved. I dont think it can be said the rugby we played at RWC 2011 was particularly good and there were some curious selections and use of the bench. It might be described as something of a rabble I guess.
But last night I came to the view that very little of the Wallabies problems are to be laid at the feet of the head coach of the Wallabies: I think our problems run a lot deeper.
i am not sure that we have the options available for him to select: i dont think our 10, 12, 13 is very convincing but having said that whats the alternative and how would you have the alternative play and would it make a difference?
I think our work rate at 4, 5 and 8 as a combined force is too low - but what is the alternative and is it so clearly better that no coach in his right mind would have picked the 4, 5 and 8 Deans has picked?
So what would a head coach do differently that would change the outcome?

 

[Roundawhile]

Inspire.

 

[Roundawhile]

Seems to me like the wobs are playing like a group that doesn't believe in :-
a the coach
b the game plan
c themselves
d their chances of winning
e their teammates

pick any, or all, and that is the way they came across last night.

They just didn't believe

 

[Schadenfreude]

Can't see mckenzie or anyone doing a Harry Potter and magically turning this around in 7 days.
McKenzie has shown weaknesses under pressure on game day of late.

Would be a huge mistake to change coaches now.

I don't see how changing the coach could make us worse.

 

[whatty]

You change a coach when the culture and motivation of the team is under performing. Blaming the coach when the game plan was not carried out due to the strength of the opposition and the lack of your own relative skills is a little tough.

Is there descent within the team, I have not heard any mentioned on these forums.

 

[Slim 293]

Game plan?

 

[FiveStarStu]

Game plan?

We could get one.

 

[It is what it is]

You change a coach when the culture and motivation of the team is under performing. Blaming the coach when the game plan was not carried out due to the strength of the opposition and the lack of your own relative skills is a little tough.

Is there descent within the team, I have not heard any mentioned on these forums.

While important, I don't think Deans' KPI's would have Culture, Motivation and Lack of dissent at the top of the page.
It's more likely to be about WINNING Test Matches %, Winning or finalist in RWC, Winning Bledisloe Cup, Tri Nations, etc.
If you disagree, how much longer should he have in the role?

 

[Gnostic]

Just saw Deans on the 7 News talking about the Wallabies executing fairly well but some "players need some personal accountability".

How about a manager taking some responsibility for not preparing the test side (with the longest preparation time any RC or any Test coach for that matter is ever likely to get) properly, selecting players which were shown to be poorly conditioned and performed in Super Rugby. What a total abrogation of his role in the debacle. This isn't the first time he has done this and shows the true nature of this man. SACK HIM now so Australian Rugby can improve.

 

[Schadenfreude]

This is why I hate KPIs.

Dean's is probably "don't get thrashed too badly" so he picks defensive teams and meets his objectives.

 

[Iluvmyfooty]

I love the way we shout get rid of the coach when the actuallity of it all is that no matter who is coach the result will be the same with this bunch of players. We are so far behinb the AB's in playing talent. The basic skills and abilities of this playing group is very low. They find it very hard to execute even the most basic game plan.

 

[nugget]

as well as all that, sack him cause he is so unbefkneivably bad at doing media interviews and pressers. His inability to 'tell his story' is nauseating. Just wanna smack the tv when he comes on.

 

[Schadenfreude]

I love the way we shout get rid of the coach when the actuallity of it all is that no matter who is coach the result will be the same with this bunch of players. We are so far behinb the AB's in playing talent. The basic skills and abilities of this playing group is very low. They find it very hard to execute even the most basic game plan.

You know, I don't think any of this is true. Or do you mean Deans picked such a shit side we shouldn't blame him for losing with them?

 

[Gnostic]

I love the way we shout get rid of the coach when the actuallity of it all is that no matter who is coach the result will be the same with this bunch of players. We are so far behinb the AB's in playing talent. The basic skills and abilities of this playing group is very low. They find it very hard to execute even the most basic game plan.

So who is responsible for raising their skill levels? Who is responsible for selecting players which don't have the skills? Who is repsonsible for selecting the players who actually get the top up contracts from the ARU?

Oh nobody?

You are a defeatist parading as an optimist.

Time to get the balls out of the wife's handbag and stand up for the management to take some responsibility for not providing a very talented group of players with the environment and tools with which to compete. The Wallabies were never in the game, indeed most tipped against them on this very site and more only tipped them due to heart over head loyalty which they stated in the associated posts under the poll.

I do not apologize for believing that the Australian players could at least compete effectively with the ABs, I make make no claims to them winning.

 

[Bardon]

The problem is that the players are just not as good as the All Black ones. If the team loses to SA and ARG then perhaps it might be worth talking about sacking him, but that is for after The Rugby Championship now.

Nail, head. But the problem is that Deans is an additional handicap, not an asset.

Dam0 you're absolutely right Deans should be judged on his record after the Rugby Championship.

As a fan of the another Tier 1 nation expected to lose to the ABs maybe I can put the sentiments of the Aus supporters on here into context. Of course many may think I'm talking out of my backside but I'll give it a go.

1. There are 3 major factors in who wins test matches. The players, the coach and the tactics. I agree the ABs consistently have the better players, this makes the other 2 factors more important for those nations trying to close the gap.

2. Even though teams are expected to lose against the ABs the performance is still important. You should feel like you made them work for the win. I'd liken it to Usain Bolt in the 100m. The other sprinters know that more than likely Bolt is going to win. But they want to push him all the way so that if he is going to beat them he'll need to get close to the WR (World Rugby) rather than slowing in the last 10m to pose for the camera. The ABs weren't at their best yesterday but were never really under any real threat despite the scoreline. That has to be disappointing to Wallabies fans. It's about putting in a performance good enough to win if the favourite isn't quite in top form.

3. Australia as the No. 2 team in the world should have the aim of getting closer to the ABs. Due to this their performance against the ABs takes on more importance as it's the yardstick they measure themselves against.

4. Against the ABs there's always an element of the performance of the ABs negating some of what you're trying to do. But Australia's tactics of standing deep and receiving the ball standing still wasn't going to trouble anyone or create any go forward ball for them.

5. I can't remember the last time I saw an Aus backline move where I thought, "wow! that was a clever set move" against anyone let alone the ABs. I've seen plenty of moments when I've thought "wow! that was a great step/pass/run/offload" that resulted in a try for Aus but that's individual off the cuff stuff.

6. When your team is not performing well but somehow is still in the game on the scoreboard you use your bench. Not going to the bench would have felt to some like giving up and accepting the result rather than changing things up.

With all respect to the Aus team there weren't many playing yesterday that even on top form are way ahead of the next in line. Deans feeling that the guys on the bench couldn't produce better than the rubbish some of the Aus players were producing yesterday sends the message that he doesn't trust his bench players. When your team are clearly unfit and performing badly that's not a good place to be.

NZs performance yesterday wasn't that good and it's reasonable to expect the No. 2 ranked team in the world to produce a performance good enough to beat a team that performed as the ABs did yesterday. No doubt the ABs are capable of much better but Aus never pushed them at all.

I think most Aus fans on here would accept that Aus have inferior players to the ABs making it an uphill battle. But having inferior tactics and to many an inferior coach makes what is a very difficult task impossible. That small gap between very difficult and impossible is where hope resides. Take away hope and you get the mass disillusion you see in this thread.

Yes the decision on Deans' future should be made at the end of the Rugby Championship. However just because the team showed no passion yesterday doesn't preclude the fans from doing so. There are many reason for Aus fans to feel disappointed about yesterdays performance and some, not all, of the reason can be laid at Deans' door.

Deepest apologies if I've misrepresented the feeling of the majority of the Aus fans on the board.

 

[emuarse]

Seems to me like the wobs are playing like a group that doesn't believe in :-
a the coach
b the game plan
c themselves
d their chances of winning
e their teammates

pick any, or all, and that is the way they came across last night.

They just didn't believe

Sounds like the Waratahs

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Deans has had this team in camp for ages. We played a series against Wales. That level of poor execution is inexcusable. What was the game plan by the way? It seemed to start off with lets run everything. That was quickly exposed.

except that Barnes put up a "tahs chip kick" (tm) very early in side his own 1/4 which tends to suggest no plan and that the running from inside their own in goal was just as random as the chip kick.
Are we sure there was any plan? Is no plan the new plan?



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

[It is what it is]

Dam0 you're absolutely right Deans should be judged on his record after the Rugby Championship.

As a fan of the another Tier 1 nation expected to lose to the ABs maybe I can put the sentiments of the Aus supporters on here into context. Of course many may think I'm talking out of my backside but I'll give it a go.

1. There are 3 major factors in who wins test matches. The players, the coach and the tactics. I agree the ABs consistently have the better players, this makes the other 2 factors more important for those nations trying to close the gap.

2. Even though teams are expected to lose against the ABs the performance is still important. You should feel like you made them work for the win. I'd liken it to Usain Bolt in the 100m. The other sprinters know that more than likely Bolt is going to win. But they want to push him all the way so that if he is going to beat them he'll need to get close to the WR (World Rugby) rather than slowing in the last 10m to pose for the camera. The ABs weren't at their best yesterday but were never really under any real threat despite the scoreline. That has to be disappointing to Wallabies fans. It's about putting in a performance good enough to win if the favourite isn't quite in top form.

3. Australia as the No. 2 team in the world should have the aim of getting closer to the ABs. Due to this their performance against the ABs takes on more importance as it's the yardstick they measure themselves against.

4. Against the ABs there's always an element of the performance of the ABs negating some of what you're trying to do. But Australia's tactics of standing deep and receiving the ball standing still wasn't going to trouble anyone or create any go forward ball for them.

5. I can't remember the last time I saw an Aus backline move where I thought, "wow! that was a clever set move" against anyone let alone the ABs. I've seen plenty of moments when I've thought "wow! that was a great step/pass/run/offload" that resulted in a try for Aus but that's individual off the cuff stuff.

6. When your team is not performing well but somehow is still in the game on the scoreboard you use your bench. Not going to the bench would have felt to some like giving up and accepting the result rather than changing things up.

With all respect to the Aus team there weren't many playing yesterday that even on top form are way ahead of the next in line. Deans feeling that the guys on the bench couldn't produce better than the rubbish some of the Aus players were producing yesterday sends the message that he doesn't trust his bench players. When your team are clearly unfit and performing badly that's not a good place to be.

NZs performance yesterday wasn't that good and it's reasonable to expect the No. 2 ranked team in the world to produce a performance good enough to beat a team that performed as the ABs did yesterday. No doubt the ABs are capable of much better but Aus never pushed them at all.

I think most Aus fans on here would accept that Aus have inferior players to the ABs making it an uphill battle. But having inferior tactics and to many an inferior coach makes what is a very difficult task impossible. That small gap between very difficult and impossible is where hope resides. Take away hope and you get the mass disillusion you see in this thread.

Yes the decision on Deans' future should be made at the end of the Rugby Championship. However just because the team showed no passion yesterday doesn't preclude the fans from doing so. There are many reason for Aus fans to feel disappointed about yesterdays performance and some, not all, of the reason can be laid at Deans' door.

Deepest apologies if I've misrepresented the feeling of the majority of the Aus fans on the board.

I think what makes most of us frustrated and at times angry is the seeming lack of 'having a go'.
It's an Australian thing that as underdogs we do whatever we can, and at times more, to knock over a favourite.
Currently we just seem to be going through the motions, and not trying anything daring or different - almost accepting defeat in the old school british way of "well played, too good old chap".
We're not into your Point 3 attitude about trying to get closer to the All Blacks.....It's un Australian to enter any contest not thinking and believing you can win.
Anna Meares plotted the downfall of GB Olympic favourite Victoria Pendleton months out from the games by racing her differently and backing herself. She won by tearing the other poor girl's heart of her chest because she wanted it so bad. What made it more powerful was her loss and devastation in the earlier event but she bounced back, had a plan and executed on the world's biggest stage in her competitor's backyard. (Think Wallabies last night and Eden Park next match)
Steve Waugh went for that 4 off the last ball of the day for his ton and delivered a message in mental toughness to the opposition and his team as a leader.
In 1997 Rod Macqueen took the nucleus of Greg Smith's 1996 Wallabies that were thrashed by over 60 points by South Africa and turned them into RWC Champions a few years later. Other Wallaby teams have done it over the years in NZ as underdogs.
The Usain Bolt analogy doesn't cut it either. You can't run into his lane, it's over in 10 seconds and courage, physicality, tactics and fatigue aren't major factors.
Rugby is a game of physical and mental attrition and while we would like to see the Wallabies win every match, we do understand that's not going to happen.
What we don't understand is this 'playing not to get beaten too badly BS'.
I'd rather us be beaten by 15-20 if we had a red hot go, tried something different and backed ourselves, than limp into a conservative and pathetic performance like last night.
Let's all cut the crap, the All Blacks played poorly, in 2nd gear, and should have won by 20-25 points last night.
Deans seems out of ideas so maybe someone else should be afforded the opportunity to coach them.

 

[Wallaby Supporter]

I must agree whole heartedly with all those who promote the demise of Deans.
To the remnants of Deans lovers who say that it wasn't him who dropped a ball, missed a tackle, made a poor pass or kick, failed to implement the game plan etc etc ... get a grip! Have you never heard of the concept of Managers/Coaches taking responsibility for the performance of their team who they select, prepare and lead?
Now fair enough we may not have the same quality of player across the park as the ABs but I would blame even that to some extent on Deans's nonsensical selections. But most importantly it is the coaches responsibility to have the team mentally up for and ready for all Test matches and that is where Deans fails miserably. By way of contrast have a look at Rod Macqueen ... now he was a master of the art!
Deans has been given a good crack and has proven himself unworthy of Wallaby Head Coach. His selections boggle the mind, he has no idea how to use the bench, he cannot implement a coherent game plan and he can't get his Team up to perform at their best for the big games (or even some of the little games like Samoa, Scotland etc).
I've been saying it for a good 2 years now and I honestly have no idea how he has survived this long ... Dumbo Ditherer Deans Must Go!!!

 

[Mank]

Mank,
I note the sarcasm but this just keeps happening under his leadership we need change, it may not fix anything but we need to try. We played better when we spent less time with Deans during the inbound tests & I hate the excuse that we don't have the cattle because I know we do.

It's cyclic. Australia might have a good few years coming up, it's probably due, and other teams may have a few low years coming up. At the moment, it doesn't look like Deans is an amazing coach, and it's almost certainly a good idea to get rid of him, it can't hurt. However, I don't understand the statement above regarding your players : "I know we do". How do you know? S15, is not international level, we all know that, we've all seen players fail to step up. On evidence, I'd say at the least, your statement can't be proven, and is probably incorrect.