The Wallabies Thread

[Lee Enfield]

They aren't hidden in defence, in Foley's case it's to position him for a counter attack/kick.

Regardless, no we can't select 3 suspect defenders in the front line. If Beale is 12 then Kuridrani needs to be 13. If Kerevi is 13 then Beale needs to be 15. I think the latter will happen regardless of who is 13.

Foley is hidden, pure and simple. He certainly isnt there for his counter attack or kicking, especially considering his kicking is abysmal.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Simple, put Folau on the wing, where he is better suited to.. play KB (Kurtley Beale) at fullback, so Wallabies actually have a fullback who can kick and pass.

Meakes and Kuridrani in the centres, two blokes who can actually defend, and defend pretty well.

I like the idea of Meakes and Kuridrani in the centres, but I much prefer DHP at full back with a real winger (Speight or Naivalu) on the end of the backline if Folau moves to one of the wing spots.

 

[TOCC]

I like the idea of Meakes and Kuridrani in the centres, but I much prefer DHP at full back with a real winger (Speight or Naivalu) on the end of the backline if Folau moves to one of the wing spots.

So do I, Beale at fullback is more a case of appeasing the contingent who think it's incomprehensible that Beale isn't included in the starting XV. I personally don't like the idea of Beale at 12, it offers up defensive frailties and I don't think that 10-12 combo gets the best out of KB (Kurtley Beale) or Foley. Beale is either super-sub or fullback IMO.

Naiavalu out injured is a big shame, best specialist winger in Australia.

 

[Mr Doug]

Seriously?

Personally, while I hope for the best for the Wallabies I can't find any optimism at all. The coaching team at best is suspect, the selections are the usual hodge podge that we have learned from this group. The captaincy is ho-hum.

We build from the worst Soup record ever. With an inadequate selection.

I suspect I might just be rooting for the babahs.

I'll watch the Wallaby games but wont put much importance is doing this live. Recordings viewed the next day are fine.

And that is as close to losing a rusted on supporter as the ARU can get.

Rugby in Aus has entered the stage of Lazarus undergoing the triple bypass.

btw "Loyalty" is just as transferable as the credence that the organisation gives it. None.

I know where you're coming from, Dru, however, now more than ever, the players need our support.
'Dubious' coaching practices, coupled with a governing body which destroys public confidence in our game, by its inability to show leadership, affects the players as much as it does those of us who follow the game! As they say, support should be given "through thick and thin", and sadly, we just happen to be in a very 'thin' period in 2017!

 

[Jagman]

So do I, Beale at fullback is more a case of appeasing the contingent who think it's incomprehensible that Beale isn't included in the starting XV. I personally don't like the idea of Beale at 12, it offers up defensive frailties and I don't think that 10-12 combo it gets the best out of him or Foley. Beale is either super-sub or fullback IMO.

Naiavalu out injured is a big shame, best specialist winger in Australia.

I don't think Beale ever defended at 12 for Chiekas Waratahs and I would be very surprised if he started doing that at test level. Beale needs a winger to swap with in defence ala Rob Horne. Curtis Rona would be the most fitting as he plays both wing and centre.

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[KOB1987]

Foley is hidden, pure and simple. He certainly isnt there for his counter attack or kicking, especially considering his kicking is abysmal.

Yeah, nah.

It's to position him to be opportunistic. Regardless of what you think of his kicking ability he's got better vision from within our own half to take advantage of a miscued kick etc than does say Henry Speight or Rob Horne.

There's a defensive element to it of course, it's to put someone who's an attacking player in a better position to attack and someone who's a better defender in his place in the front line. But it's not as simple as 'oh fuck, we can't have Bernard defending in the front line, we need to reconfig the whole backline to remove him from bodies running at him'. For that argument to stack up you'd need to produce evidence that he's actually a worse defender than the other 10s running around.

Just some random figures from this year's soup:
Foley: Missed 14 of 74 = 19%
Barrett: 20/98 = 20%
Cruden: 33/149 = 22%
Hawera: 36/168 = 21%

 

[KOB1987]

Simple, put Folau on the wing, where he is better suited to.. play KB (Kurtley Beale) at fullback, so Wallabies actually have a fullback who can kick and pass.

Meakes and Kuridrani in the centres, two blokes who can actually defend, and defend pretty well.

This is exactly what I was suggesting. Although just as happy if Hodge is at 12 too.

 

[Highlander35]

Just some random figures from this year's soup: Attempted tackles
Foley: 74
Barrett: 98
Cruden: 149
Hawera: 168

Hidden on Defence.


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[fatprop]

Christ mate.. based on the efforts in June he should be looking elsewhere for the whole team

Do you agree that Carter has been in far superior form to Douglas and Simmons in 2017?

Yes

but if we are looking at "efforts" in 2017 as the criteria for selection, why no derision on Timani's selection in June or McMahon now?

They were selected on past reputation as well

 

[KOB1987]

Hidden on Defence.


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If you think so, but produce evidence that he needs to be hidden.

 

[fatprop]

Foley misses tackles usually by being run over or just stepped, but it isn't for lack of effort, he is a leg tackler who doesn't shirk or hide; he just gets beaten

 

[TOCC]

Yes

but if we are looking at "efforts" in 2017 as the criteria for selection, why no derision on Timani's selection in June or McMahon now?

They were selected on past reputation as well

Wasn't McMahon injured during the June series?
Not sure what the relevance is, but il engage....Which in-form backfrowers were McMahon and Timani selected ahead of? Dempsey, Hanigan, Higgers, Hardwick? That's the difference..

Bit of a difference scenario to locks, where there are in-form locks who weren't selected, and out of form locks were.

 

[fatprop]

Wasn't McMahon injured during the June series?
Not sure what the relevance is, but il engage..Which in-form backfrowers were McMahon and Timani selected ahead of? Dempsey, Hanigan, Higgers, Hardwick? That's the difference..

McMahon has been injured for most of the season, I don't disagree with his (or Timani's selection)

Bit of a difference scenario to locks, where there are in-form locks who weren't selected, and out of form locks were.

yep, it appears Cheika wasn't satisfied with the in-form locks, they had their chance, they have been in the training camps, others are now getting their chance

I just find it interesting to see that it is "justifiable" for the backrow selection but not for the locks.

 

[Brumbieman]

Sio
TPN
Allaalatoa
Arnold
Coleman
Hanigan
Hooper
Timani
Phipps
Foley
DHP
Meakes
Kuridrani
Folau
Beale

Robertson
Moore
Kepu
Douglas
McMahon
Powell
Perese
Speight

Ideally, Fardy and Smith in at 6 and 8.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I don't think Beale ever defended at 12 for Chiekas Waratahs and I would be very surprised if he started doing that at test level. Beale needs a winger to swap with in defence ala Rob Horne. Curtis Rona would be the most fitting as he plays both wing and centre.

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But Curtis would be a very busy man covering for Foley at 10, Beale at 12 and Kerevi at 13 all at the same time.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Hidden on Defence.


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And probably explains why Hooper is commonly the highest defender in the side.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Sio
TPN
Allaalatoa
Arnold
Coleman
Hanigan
Hooper
Timani
Phipps
Foley
DHP
Meakes
Kuridrani
Folau
Beale

Robertson
Moore
Kepu
Douglas
McMahon
Powell
Perese
Speight

Ideally, Fardy and Smith in at 6 and 8.

B'man, I don't think any national team in the world at the moment plays three full backs in the run on side. Two seems to be the go. So, I think one of the back three would have to drop out in favour of a specialist winger like Speight or Naivalu (when fit). I just don't want to see the replaced player being DHP in that group.

 

[Scrubber2050]

I think anyone supporting the Babas against the Wallabies are really just not supporting Cheika and his coaching mates.

 

[Rebels3]

I just want to pick our best team available. Not worried with combinations or people's strengths complimenting others weaknesses.

Sio - clearly better than the others
TPN - best of an ordinary bunch
AAT - close call with Kepu, but form this year been worth it
Coleman - obvious
Arnold- obvious
Hanigan - would rather Fardy but gets a lot of unfair shit from some, best of an ordinary bunch
Hooper - obvious
McMahon - runs hard, tackles hard
Genia - obvious despite some of the crap thrown at him from a 3 game sample size
Foley - obvious
Folau - could be worlds best winger but won't be worlds best fullback
Beale - obvious
Kerevi - kurindrani is a great player but if you gave the opposition the choice of kerevi or Kurindrani, 9/10 of them would rather face kurindrani
Speight - best winger in Super Rugby all year from aus perspective
DHP - better fullback than Folau, Folau a better winger

Uelese - Moore is running around like a geriatric
Faulkner
Kepu
Rodda
Timani - would rather Hardwick but no idea what happened there
Powell
Hodge - versatility
Rona - versatility

 

[Gnostic]

Gnostic, I agree with your observation about Cheika's selections, but you've lost me with your follow up comments.



If Hooper gets injured, I really can't see George Smith being an option to replace him, and even less so Ben McCalman. George is in the twilight of his career, and has said he wouldn't want to keep a younger player out; Ben is not a No 7 - he has rarely shone at test level in his preferred No 8 spot. Assuming McMahon won't be selected because he is departing, then Hardwick, who is in the squad, looms as the most likely replacement.



Robertson has admittedly been out of form, but he is a really young man and has years ahead of him. He probably will continue to be selected from time to time but one YC is hardly going to trigger his retirement.

The comments were not a direct selection suggestion, just a segue of comparison between the eras.