Wallabies 2023

[stillmissit]

Have they ever been of a high enough standard? relatively few players come from club rugby. Most Super Rugby talent is identified long before that.

I think that is a problem. The guys have few basic skills learnt from failure in club rugby and have never had to play 80 mins.

 

[stillmissit]

Agree, depth is part of it. I think if you tracked the minutes of profession or semi-professional games many of the NZ squad members have played it would be higher at higher levels of competition. There is also more money floating around NZRU for players which impacts this.

I personally still feel it's more to do with execution and game management. When your structures break down. Mistakes are made. You make the tactically poor decision. You increase the work and effort that is involved. Is fitness a factor, maybe, but I feel like it's more.

I am a fan of Okkams' razor so let's fix the fitness issue first and then look for other things. The Rebels were a classic example, both teams played with the same intensity in the first half and in the second the Rebels dropped their rush D and started to avoid the breakdown. Normal signs of lack of fitness forcing the players to look for a break where one does not exist.

I did wonder if that was a problem in Rennies time, he tried to up the level of fitness and the guys broke down. These breakdowns could have been poor S&C. but that would suggest the Wallabies couldn't handle tougher training when compared to Super Rugby. Happy to be proven wrong as long as it comes from 'someone in the know'.

 

[stillmissit]

Molman, I agee with this "if you tracked the minutes of profession or semi-professional games many of the NZ squad members have played it would be higher at higher levels of competition." Our guys are not playing enough rugby as an example the tahs have 37 players 15 start and 8 finishers. That leaves 11 players who could potentially play club and on game day 15 play 3/4s of a game and 8 play 1/4 of a game. There are 22 games so starters could get 16.5 games and finishers get 2 games. This is only an example and not the real world but you get the idea.

The NZ provincial series involves 14 teams playing 10 games, so that is an extra 10 games a year.

 

[Highlander35]

Shocking that 14 "high performance" games isn't enough to ensure that the 100 to 150 professionally signed players outside the core wallabies group are developing the physical and mental traits required to succeed beyond gym & field work.

I wonder if anyone has ever made that point over the last 25 years and tried to arrest it with opportunities for this group to play with the best of those outside the professional game in the August to October period between the end of Super Rugby and the EOYTs.

 

[Marce]

I wonder if anyone has ever made that point over the last 25 years and tried to arrest it with opportunities for this group to play with the best of those outside the professional game in the August to October period between the end of Super Rugby and the EOYTs.

Australia A games?

 

[mst]

Agree, depth is part of it. I think if you tracked the minutes of profession or semi-professional games many of the NZ squad members have played it would be higher at higher levels of competition. There is also more money floating around NZRU for players which impacts this.

There is money around, but like Shute for example (and Hospital) its being used to pay club level players so the old boy can keep there hsistory alive.

Unfortunately for the game, it needs more players at a higher standard than Shute and Hospital, more games for casual (non-club rugby) supporters, and competions people would grow to watch and thats where the money should be going.

 

[Wallaby Man]

I agree with the lack of games argument. It’s not specifically the 10-12 guys in each Super Rugby team that consistently play 60+ mins in the season it’s the remaining 25 guys in the squad that play the equivalent of 3 whole games in a season or less.

Australia A games?

Australia A is a small answer but it basically only provides a further opportunity for another 20 odd guys. Between that and the wallabies squad there is still 100 guys that are playing around 200mins of pro rugby or less and then 10-15 games at amateur level.

I’d say every player in a kiwi Super Rugby squad is getting close to 1000mins of pro rugby a year depending on injuries or not.

 

[Wallaby Man]

The SRAU idea at seasons end is the best in my mind as it retains its professional outlook. One of the failings for NRC was it was run on the smell of an oily rag. Squads getting together at the last minute, players involved juggling work commitments during the season. It was more an old school rep set up than professional set up but I guess the finances available was the reality.

 

[stillmissit]

The SRAU idea at seasons end is the best in my mind as it retains its professional outlook. One of the failings for NRC was it was run on the smell of an oily rag. Squads getting together at the last minute, players involved juggling work commitments during the season. It was more an old school rep set up than professional set up but I guess the finances available was the reality.

Finances and lack of history and therfore supporters brought it down. It was hoped enough people would watch the games to make it semi self supporting but it drained whatever cash was allocated to it.

Anybody got any $$$ sensible ideas to increase the amount of games our pro players are playing?

 

[stillmissit]

Shute Shield is only 18 games long and most UK National 2 club rugby is around 25 games.
Does anyone know if all Super Rugby players not required on game day are playing club rugby? Understand these are last minute decisions often but it does seem a waste to me....

 

[Derpus]

I think that is a problem. The guys have few basic skills learnt from failure in club rugby and have never had to play 80 mins.

Yeah hence NRC.

 

[Drew]

Does anyone know if all Super Rugby players not required on game day are playing club rugby? Understand these are last minute decisions often but it does seem a waste to me....

In seasons past I remember the Tahs putting on up social media who was playing where in Shute. Haven’t seen it this year.

 

[qwerty51]

In seasons past I remember the Tahs putting on up social media who was playing where in Shute. Haven’t seen it this year.

It's been there every week.

Players Available for Shute Shield Archer Holz (Eastern Suburbs) Ben Dowling (Randwick) Harrison Goddard (Gordon) Sateki Latu (Warringah) Zane Marolt (Eastern Suburbs)

 

[Drew]

It's been there every week.

Players Available for Shute Shield Archer Holz (Eastern Suburbs) Ben Dowling (Randwick) Harrison Goddard (Gordon) Sateki Latu (Warringah) Zane Marolt (Eastern Suburbs)

must’ve stopped coming up on my feed for some reason. Thanks.

 

[dru]

Finances and lack of history and therfore supporters brought it down. It was hoped enough people would watch the games to make it semi self supporting but it drained whatever cash was allocated to it.

Anybody got any $$$ sensible ideas to increase the amount of games our pro players are playing?

Only in NSW, SMI. So less about a lack of history (in NRC) and a lot about arrogance of expectation around history in SS. I do have to admit though, it's an issue that will need resolution for any 3rd tier put forward or NSW will again destroy it.

 

[PhilClinton]

The SRAU idea at seasons end is the best in my mind as it retains its professional outlook. One of the failings for NRC was it was run on the smell of an oily rag. Squads getting together at the last minute, players involved juggling work commitments during the season. It was more an old school rep set up than professional set up but I guess the finances available was the reality.

Not disagreeing with the lack of funds, but the QLD teams at least were quite well run and controlled by the QRU. I know a heap of blokes who enjoyed playing in the competition.

It sounds like most of the disorder moaning was from the NSW teams.

 

[Adam84]

yeah the lack of buy-in and failed delivery in NSW really killed the NRC, had NSW got on board with it and delivered teams as QLD did i'd argue the competition could have been successful.

 

[Derpus]

yeah the lack of buy-in and failed delivery in NSW really killed the NRC, had NSW got on board with it and delivered teams as QLD did i'd argue the competition could have been successful.

NSW club rugby - the way it's structured and the vested interets - terrible for the game in Australia.

 

[qwerty51]

I don't want to bring up the NRC debates again but it should be noted NSWRU wouldn't just kill something for no reason, supporters are much more attached to the clubs than the made-up teams, you can understand why they wanted a more club-aligned model.

The fans are as much to "blame" as NSWRU but it's hard going against 100 years of history vs. nothing.

 

[molman]

Shocking that 14 "high performance" games isn't enough to ensure that the 100 to 150 professionally signed players outside the core wallabies group are developing the physical and mental traits required to succeed beyond gym & field work.

I wonder if anyone has ever made that point over the last 25 years and tried to arrest it with opportunities for this group to play with the best of those outside the professional game in the August to October period between the end of Super Rugby and the EOYTs.

I get the tongue in cheek comment , but even that aside, it's compounded by the fact that a number of these players are also not clocking up significant minutes even across these 14 games unless they are the starter (anyone remember poor Mack Mason). But really, the concern isn't just those first 23, it's the 3rd, 4th player that may need to slot in if there is an injury, players who in the NZ teams are often pushing for a start and in some cases would be in the 23 for one of our franchises.

I really do miss the NRC, so many of the current squads are littered with those players now, but I also get the reality of it not working. I'm not sure how we create our NPC/Currie Cup equivalent. A SuperRugby A's series run in concert with the SuperRugby AU team games could be a possibility (and has been done scattershot in the past with the Brumbie Runners, Waratah A's, Reds A's etc..) with a SuperRugbyAU style feel which some people would probably really like, but even that wouldn't likely be enough games, nor am I sure how it would work flowing into the Aug-Oct Period. I also feel like the Womens game has rightly taken some of that space in terms of a double header situation. Propositions like the club comp champions style tournament have the issue of leaving a lot of quality players not accessing this level unless they play for one of the successful clubs which then results in more consolidation of talent and distortions as players may shift to clubs they feel will help them achieve accessing this level.