Wallabies v All Blacks Saturday 26th August at Forsyth Barr Stadium, Dunedin

[TOCC]

I dont think Folau to wing is ever going to happen, hey.

There's certainly merit to the concept, given the shuffling Cheika does elsewhere in the team I can't understand why he wouldn't consider shifting players to positions, which IMO they are better suited to.

Any lineup which allows the team to attack and defend from the same position, is going to help team cohesion and confidence in one another, right now, it seems like they're trying to overthink it. Last Saturday, they had a different defensive allignment for almost every set piece. It's really not surprising they leaked so many points.

 

[Joe Blow]

Is Timani carrying a niggle?
Why no TPN?
Same back row that was destroyed in the first half last week and gave the ABs the ball on a platter to attack?

 

[Lorenzo]

Is Timani carrying a niggle?
Why no TPN?
Same back row that was destroyed in the first half last week and gave the ABs the ball on a platter to attack?

it wasn't a poor performance, they just need time in the system

 

[ACT Crusader]

I dont think Folau to wing is ever going to happen, hey.

Yeah only a man with supreme foresight and nous like Robbie Deans would make such a move

 

[Joe Blow]

I think the back row and hooker were a big part of not containing the ABs attack. We did not have time to re-align and they were able to expose our many frailties easily. TPN made a big difference, as did Timani as both made a high percentage of dominant tackles and both carried the ball through traffic and over the advantage line.

 

[dru]

I dont think Folau to wing is ever going to happen, hey.

Open side wing is where he plays in D.

 

[Ulrich]

Where were all the tries scored on the weekend?
Doesnt matter how good your forwards are if your backs can't tackle and your midfield leaks like a seive.
I've said before there is little to discuss regarding the forwards - very little point of difference and most of the selections are pretty clear cut. You can only discuss x2 7s vs a 7 and an 8 so many times before you want to stab yourself in the eye with a pencil rather than read another post.
The backs are a different matter. More controversy, more opinions and more options.

Yet I can hardly name one of your back-row today being a bigger rugby fan than I ever used to be in the days of Waugh & Smith for example.

Your pigs may be OK, but they are not setting the world alight. Compare what you have to the following:

Creevy; Coles; Bismarck; Marx; Crockett; Whitelock; Retallick; PSdT; Etzebeth; Lood; Mostert (abundantly blessed we are in 4-5); Itoje; Read; Vermeulen; M. Coetzee; Pablo Matera; A. Savea; Jaco Kriel; J Kaino & the Franks.

That's all from the Southern Hemisphere alone bar Itoje. There are still the Grey brothers and a bunch of other NH forwards I.E Faletau, Vunipola, Warburton etc.

I only know Hooper to be a good name. I know the name Simmons and I know Moore because he's been there for ages and the TPN guy.

Can you honestly say they are not responsible for your backline being effective and can you say most defensive duties are the backline's responsibility? I doubt it. Over and over again its predominantly the loosies that make the most tackles.

 

[KOB1987]

Backrow.. woefully unbalanced

All in all, this is a regression on last week

I'm not advocating the makeup of the entire team, like everyone else I would have Timani at 8, TPN at 2 and Moore in the stands.

But I think you are wrong with that statement:
Kuridrani > Kerevi
DHP > Rona
Simmons = Arnold (I'm saying this because although I'd have Arnold in my starting lineup there really isn't that much difference between the two and they are going to play 50/30 instead of 30/50)

So in all it's a modest improvement on last week but still not good enough to beat the AB's

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I'm not advocating the makeup of the entire team, like everyone else I would have Timani at 8, TPN at 2 and Moore in the stands.

But I think you are wrong with that statement:
Kuridrani > Kerevi
DHP > Rona
Simmons = Arnold (I'm saying this because although I'd have Arnold in my starting lineup there really isn't that much difference between the two and they are going to play 50/30 instead of 30/50)

So in all it's a modest improvement on last week but still not good enough to beat the AB's

And we need way more than a modest improvement to beat the all blacks.

All blacks by 20.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[old fella2]

Cheika doesn't understand why there is anger? Did Bled 1 not happen?

So this conduct is justified? FFS this is sport. The moaning and whining by desk jockeys about the wallabies brings no credit to anyone. Here's a weird idea: get behind them and wish them good luck. Last time I looked, that is what fans did.

 

[Scrubber2050]

^^^^^^
Yep agree.

I won't be surprised at that margin but I think we will see better defence from both sides.

The worrying thing for me is that I reckon The AB's would have received a rocket from Hanson for taking their foot off the pedal and letting Australia score some 30 points in the second half. That won't happen again.

 

[tragic]

24 points has been the average margin across the last 6 ABs vs Wobblies games.
So last weekend was above average.
Not sure what everyone's complaining about.
Clearly we're building in the right direction.

 

[Scrubber2050]

So this conduct is justified? FFS this is sport. The moaning and whining by desk jockeys about the wallabies brings no credit to anyone. Here's a weird idea: get behind them and wish them good luck. Last time I looked, that is what fans did.

Fuck me, of course the fans are allowed to moan, groan and whinge with a performance like that. The HC has copped a heap of flak and fairly given (Although the hate mail thing is a strong term maybe used by the receiver to gain some sympathy - fucked if I know). He is the one that chooses his selection favourites time and time again, chooses the strategy and game plan, chooses his Assistants, is primarily responsible for the "culture" of the group as well as the attitude. He is validly wide open to hard criticism (not fucking death threats etc - that is just rubbish to me - it is sport afterall) for all the above.

You don't change things when they are working well, but you do when the fucking thing is broken. And broke it is....

 

[TSR]

I'm sorry - but hate mail and personal attacks are never justified.

The micro scrutiny of Cheika's performance as a coach by the general public is part and parcel of the gig.

But the level of viciousness and personal attacks is a truly sad and troublesome development in modern society. Hopefully Cheika realises it says more about the attacker than it does about him.

 

[Gnostic]

The dark side of social media rises again. So people have somehow obtained a private email and phone number and have used it inappropriately to send "hate" messages to Chieka. Its so easy to make the anonymous abusive messages and for what purpose? Anger is the starting point and there is a long post I could make about the complex reasons that lead to the sending of such messages (including individual feelings of power), but ultimately such things skirt very close to illegality for a very good reason. Is it OK to go and bash on Cheika's door and hurl abuse face to face? No of course not, not withstanding the fact that 90% of people wouldn't have the cojones to do it as they would rightly fear being sat on their arse. And whoever disclosed said emails and phone numbers has breached trust massively, even if contact was for supportive reasons.

Anyway even though I am firmly on the record as deriding multiple facets of the Wallabies play, coaching and systems integrity (my favourite hobby horse) I do truly hope that they can use this as genuine motivation and achieve something this weekend.

Finally I also hope that nobody remotely associated with GAGR is idiot enough to be the individual to be the one to be sending such inappropriate messages, even without knowing the content it is not right.

 

[Ruggo]

I don't support hate mail or even playing the man. His performance in the role is very questionable and on that level people should attack away.

At the end of the day, the punters are pissed off with a whole union that has no bloody concept or regard for accountability.

A few idiots go to unacceptable extreme levels and now the apologists will role out the Teflon shields in defense of him.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Are there any of Chek's so called "hate" mail in the public forum.

For all I know it might just be "critical" mail - which I don't have a problem with.

As said before, genuine hate mail is just just fucking a weak stab by some anonymous grub.

 

[sidelineview]

The anger should be directed at the whole Australian rugby system and neglect of grassroots. Building from the top down was always a stupid plan, if you can call it a plan.
When it's obvious that rugby has been napping for so many years while AFL has stolen its lunch, its a bit misguided to direct anger at the HC of the Wallabies, even though the anger and frustration is understandable.
When rugby has slowly disappeared from competitive school sport and numbers have dwindled while the powerful AFL marketing machine from south of the border has made successful inroads into junior and school sport, its a bit misguided to launch a witch hunt on the HC.
When the Wallabies skills coach admits that the players cant catch and pass properly and need time to learn, its a bit misguided to pin it onto the HC.
The HC and coaching staff are accountable of course, and they deserve all the criticism thats warranted, but the fault goes waaaaaay back.
It doesnt make watching the ABs demolish the Wallabies any easier but as many have mentioned its time for a new battle plan, but first the right personnel need to be in charge. How much money has been wasted that could have been channeled into grassroots development? That's my main point of frustration.
Attempts are being made with the restructuring of the U19s & 20s set ups, but there's a long road ahead.
It all starts in the Head Office and it starts at the bottom.

 

[Derpus]

So this conduct is justified? FFS this is sport. The moaning and whining by desk jockeys about the wallabies brings no credit to anyone. Here's a weird idea: get behind them and wish them good luck. Last time I looked, that is what fans did.

The problem, i suspect, is the fans perceived lack of effort and professionalism. If we were going above and beyond, playing as hard as we could etc. then perhaps discontent wouldn't be so bad, even if we still got belted.

The bad management, the loss of the Force, the poor super rugby performances, the strange selections, etc. It all adds up to a fair bit of dissatisfaction. Then throw on the worst Wallaby performance a lot of us have ever witnessed.

You are either going to stop diverting money and time into the sport, or be irritated whilst you do it.

Edit: I in no way condone giving Cheika shit. If you feel the need to do something like that you need some fucking perspective in your life.

 

[Ruggo]

TSR, I never accused you of being a Cheika apologist. Before getting sanctimonious with me, check out the mental health thread and you will know exactly where I come from on matters of mental health. He isn't the first Wallaby coach to have a blow torch applied to him.

Link before him had his personal life dragged right through the fucking mud if I remember right. One of the biggest Cnuts in that episode is wearing the Wallaby 12 jersey.

Deans had the blow torch applied to him quite savagely during his tenure remember.

I work in politics and see every day the level of shit that gets thrown at them everyday and the pressure that they come under as a result of constant personal attack.

Attack is a bit extreme on my part and I apologize for that language but he should be very heavily scrutinized for his performance in the role.