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Wallabies v France, Paris, Sun 6th Nov 7am AEDT

dru

John Eales (66)
Stats are what the compiler wants them to be. Campbell definitely had one turnover against him after being pinged for holding the ball in the ruck. And perhaps you'd better have another look at Ikitau's completion rate. On the figures for tackles made and missed tackles, his completion rate is 75%, not 25%.

I wish we could all get away from stats. They are simply in the eye of the beholder. Our own personal judgement of a player's performance over the course of a game says a whoi,le lot more than a basket full of stats.

In the personal opinion of many here Campbell had a better than "solid" game. Personal opinion to the contrary at least in part was without substantiation. Stats do not tell the whole story but no they are not "simply in the eye of the beholder".

I wasn't intentionally misrepresenting Ikitau - I had him as an HM behind White otherwise would put him in the three for PotM.

Another result through digging into the stats - I am starting to notice Wright more. His D wasn't up to muster, not just on the Campbell miss but generally. OTOH his attack (and support play) was impressive.
 

RugbyReg

Rocky Elsom (76)
Staff member
It was the one blight from what was another strong performance from him...

He must have been having flashbacks to his try against the 'canes.

But it was dumb - the team just looked rudderless in those final stages.

he got pinged for a high tackle too didn't he? As a few of us noted in the match thread he was generally too high all match. Was lucky not to get pinged more to be honest. There were other line/ball tackles. He was also high in the maul too which impacted our effectiveness. His workrate and line running is excellent though.
 

LeCheese

Vay Wilson (31)
he got pinged for a high tackle too didn't he? As a few of us noted in the match thread he was generally too high all match. Was lucky not to get pinged more to be honest. There were other line/ball tackles. He was also high in the maul too which impacted our effectiveness. His workrate and line running is excellent though.
I think commentary said it was Valetini that got pinged, but I believe Jaco clarified with TMO and said it was Neville
 

Derpus

David Wilson (68)
he got pinged for a high tackle too didn't he? As a few of us noted in the match thread he was generally too high all match. Was lucky not to get pinged more to be honest. There were other line/ball tackles. He was also high in the maul too which impacted our effectiveness. His workrate and line running is excellent though.
Dont think Jaco checked a single thing all night.

Im kind of okay with it. No one wants extended TMO reviews.
 

PhilClinton

Jim Lenehan (48)
Am I on crazy pills or was there a fairly obviously swinging arm cleanout on Fainga'a in the ruck leading up to the final French try? Looked like the reserve French prop or hooker. I haven't had time to go back and watch again but seeing it live I was nearly certain it would be called back.
 

Braveheart81

James Horwill (77)
Staff member
Incoming:

1. A post by @Braveheart81 critiquing Campbell's one misstep as if it encompasses his whole match. Then suggesting we need to work in more experience in the fullback position ("oh, I dunno........... Maybe Kurtley Beale, with Marky Mark (Nawaqanitawase) (Nawaqanitawase) on the wing and Campbell to suck some eggs in the training squad"). The final paragraph being a statement of opinion as if it's an established fact.

Campbell was good.

He should continue to be selected.
 

LeCheese

Vay Wilson (31)
Am I on crazy pills or was there a fairly obviously swinging arm cleanout on Fainga'a in the ruck leading up to the final French try? Looked like the reserve French prop or hooker. I haven't had time to go back and watch again but seeing it live I was nearly certain it would be called back.
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3:32 in below:

Can understand why it wasn't called, but would also understand if it was called back. Not sure it'd be for a swinging arm, but initial contact - which is either chest-to-shoulder or bicep-to-head depending on how you look at it. Play on imo
 

Namerican

Chris McKivat (8)
Am I on crazy pills or was there a fairly obviously swinging arm cleanout on Fainga'a in the ruck leading up to the final French try? Looked like the reserve French prop or hooker. I haven't had time to go back and watch again but seeing it live I was nearly certain it would be called back.
Yes there was. A clear and obvious red card. The replay is on Reddit. It was 100% missed by Peyper and the TMO.
 

whitefalcon

Alfred Walker (16)
That offload to get the Foketi try was a prime example of Foley’s game - panic play that sometimes pays off, and sometimes doesn’t. The offload was juggled and so nearly put down (by Ikitau?), which would’ve been either a French try or 5m scrum.
I agree, whilst it resulted in a fantasic try, it also could have been a shocker resulting in a french try
 

Braveheart81

James Horwill (77)
Staff member
Composure is still a massive issue.

Right before half time there's the Foley pass to no one and then when we're scrambling to pick it up, Kellaway should have picked it up and immediately kicked it dead and it would have been halftime.

Then the bungled Valetini kick in the second half.

We lack sound decision making under pressure on a regular basis.
 

PhilClinton

Jim Lenehan (48)
Can understand why it wasn't called, but would also understand if it was called back. Not sure it'd be for a swinging arm, but initial contact - which is either chest-to-shoulder or bicep-to-head depending on how you look at it. Play on imo

Thanks for the footage. I've seen plays like that called back a lot during Super Rugby and the Rugby Championships, at least for a review and discussion with the ref.

FF (Folau Fainga'a) definitely a bit slower to his feet afterwards, he felt the impact. I think it's one of those situations where if he'd stayed down, they'd have had a look, carded the French bloke and overturned the try. Probably not what's best for the game in general though.

I know if the shoe was on the other foot I'd be happy the play wasn't stopped for that particular infringement.
 

Derpus

David Wilson (68)
Thanks for the footage. I've seen plays like that called back a lot during Super Rugby and the Rugby Championships, at least for a review and discussion with the ref.

FF (Folau Fainga'a) (Folau Fainga'a) definitely a bit slower to his feet afterwards, he felt the impact. I think it's one of those situations where if he'd stayed down, they'd have had a look, carded the French bloke and overturned the try. Probably not what's best for the game in general though.

I know if the shoe was on the other foot I'd be happy the play wasn't stopped for that particular infringement.
It is what's best for the game.

Football went through a similar metamorphosis. Sure, it's stupid seeing footballers roll around clutching their ankle like it's been blown off. But they also aren't suffering career ending leg breakers on a regular basis anymore.

Brain trauma will end the sport. You cop a high hit - stay the fuck down.
 

PhilClinton

Jim Lenehan (48)
It is what's best for the game.

Football went through a similar metamorphosis. Sure, it's stupid seeing footballers roll around clutching their ankle like it's been blown off. But they also aren't suffering career ending leg breakers on a regular basis anymore.

Brain trauma will end the sport. You cop a high hit - stay the fuck down.

My 'Probably not what's best for the game' wasn't referencing the fact players need to stay down more.

I'm talking about the way the game is officiated and having the play called back, when the French scored a good try. We all moan on about how play sometimes runs for several phases before the ref goes back to check some foul play that occurred off the ball and had no impact on what ended up happening afterwards. That stop start nature of rugby isn't great for the game.

By all means, if FF (Folau Fainga'a) was caught high, he should have stayed down, and the French player dealt with accordingly. I think that incident was missed by the video review.

But that particular play didn't really impact the particular aspects of the try being scored, yet it would have been taken off them. Not sure if there needs to be a threshold for where 'foul play' overrides anything that comes after it. For example, should it only be for red card offences.
 

Brumby Runner

Tim Horan (67)
In the personal opinion of many here Campbell had a better than "solid" game. Personal opinion to the contrary at least in part was without substantiation. Stats do not tell the whole story but no they are not "simply in the eye of the beholder".

I wasn't intentionally misrepresenting Ikitau - I had him as an HM behind White otherwise would put him in the three for PotM.

Another result through digging into the stats - I am starting to notice Wright more. His D wasn't up to muster, not just on the Campbell miss but generally. OTOH his attack (and support play) was impressive.
Dru, I like your work - some of the best on the site I reckon. But I will never have the reliance on stats compiled by who knows whom that you seem to be comfortable with. On Tom Wright for example, I don't think any stats were ever needed to form an opinion that he is one of our better attacking weapons and in my eyes consistently beats tacklers and makes good ground with his running game. The fact the stats say he missed most of his attempted tackles means little as all but one was covered by the team's defensive patterns in cover. Only one try was scored through him - one too many granted, but any other misses didn't have a crucial impact on the outcome of the game (same for anyone else missing a tackle where the cover cleans up). And I think we all know that Tom is liable to do some non-sensical stuff in a game without having to have stats show us.

I will continue to just use my observations of the game in deciding points for POTY rather than using stats that I have no confidence in their accuracy.
 

Pfitzy

Jason Little (69)
Call it what you like but if he keeps playing solid games he shouldn't be losing his spot to Banks or any of the wingers in the squad.

I agree - from his Reds form and the minutes he's had in gold (here and Oz A) I reckon he's worth persisting with. Certainly moreso than Banks.

What I found so impressive was that he was bankable in defence, notwithstanding our disagreement missing a straightforward cover tackle

FIFY.

Just to be clear to you, Reg, and all the Reds fans filling their pants with ecstasy ;) : the fact I'm not creaming my jeans over that performance does not indicate displeasure. I thought he was good, and as said above, worth persisting with.

This isn't Uber where anything less than 5 stars indicates failure.

More that if people reach for "blinder" based on that performance, they're likely to de-glove themselves when he plays any better than that.
 
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