Wallabies vs Ireland - 3rd test - Saturday 23rd June 2018 - Sydney Football Stadium

[Grant NZ]

So you are suggesting that once a player is lifted, they basically should not be challenged, because with the player held at leg level, ANY contact to their upper body in trying to get the ball has a high chance of them tipping. How can a jumper challenge for the ball with no contact at all with the other player? The lifter has no responsibility? I find it staggering that people cannot see that the act of lifting is an inherent part of the risk here, and is absolutely a mitigating factor.

Not to the point that the jumper ends up landing on his back or head, no. Yes, lifting creates an element of danger, so does jumping for the ball. But WR (World Rugby), in their limited wisdom have basically put the onus on the chaser (as it is almost always the chaser entering the area second) to not challenge if it's gonna lead to the other guy landing badly. It's not an ideal situation by any means, but it is what it is and Folau's card isn't in any way out of the ordinary given the way this area has been ruled and the fact he was lifted doesn't materially alter things much.

In terms of mitigation, I guess it's something to consider. But I don't think the ref would take it into account all that much. A citing panel probably would, sure.

 

[the plastic paddy]

He was part of the ruck. Coleman was the one penalized for offside. Kepu couldn't be offside and Coleman wasn't but once the penalty is awarded i don't see why it wouldn't be a penalty try. So i agree. Doesn't make a lot of sense.

These things happen though and generally, over 80 minutes, leave alone 240 minutes they balance out. The game cannot be perfectly refereed so just take the rough with the smooth. Personally I would take the three tests Australia and Ireland served up over a (tackling optional) try fest like the first SA V England test. As I said in my first post, I think Australia will run NZ a lot closer than the bookies odds indicate in the rugby championship.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Derpus]

^^^^
Cyclo is pointing out that it's dumb that all of the onus is on the chaser.

 

[Grant NZ]

^^^^
Cyclo is pointing out that it's dumb that all of the onus is on the chaser.

Yeah, it is (dumb) but - yeah, it is (on the chaser).

 

[cyclopath]

Not to the point that the jumper ends up landing on his back or head, no. Yes, lifting creates an element of danger, so does jumping for the ball. But WR (World Rugby), in their limited wisdom have basically put the onus on the chaser (as it is almost always the chaser entering the area second) to not challenge if it's gonna lead to the other guy landing badly. It's not an ideal situation by any means, but it is what it is and Folau's card isn't in any way out of the ordinary given the way this area has been ruled and the fact he was lifted doesn't materially alter things much.

In terms of mitigation, I guess it's something to consider. But I don't think the ref would take it into account all that much. A citing panel probably would, sure.

I'm not arguing Folau is an innocent party here, but I am far from accepting that this is worth a card necessarily, nor a citing.

 

[Derpus]

Man, i sure wish we won that series. At least it wasn't a white wash like the last time we hosted the 6 nations champions. What's the bet we get Wales or someone next, and they hit form and come down as the damn champions as well.

It was also interesting that we completely shelved the cross field kicks.

 

[Grant NZ]

I'm not arguing Folau is an innocent party here, but I am far from accepting that this is worth a card necessarily, nor a citing.

I agree, to some extent. The citing (if it is for that one, Dan indicated it may not be) would be weapons grade bullshit. The yellow is iffy, but a 50/50 call, I'd say. I mean, I don't think it SHOULD be a card but given the current stance on these incidents, it's not wildly inconsistent that it could be.

 

[Piglet]

You mean Nemani Nadolo? Poor old Nabuli has just never got it together.

Nabuli has never played for the Waratahs. Went from league to the Reds.

 

[Up the Guts]

How though? If Folau doesn't bang into him in the air, then compound that by holding him on the way down, he comes down fine. The lions share of putting him into harms way rests with Folau.

Ben Smith got a yellow card in the RWC final for lifting a leg when Hooper was bound onto Mitchell also and driving his front half down. But Smith was the one who lifted the leg so he takes the card.

Look at every contest in the air between two players jumping on their own accord. They almost always come into contact with each other but usually end up falling ok because they are travelling forward when they jump. If you have a guy who has been propelled into the air from a static position any slight contact is going to send him down awkwardly.

 

[Up the Guts]

Nabuli has never played for the Waratahs. Went from league to the Reds.

Wasn't suggesting he had.

 

[Istanbul]

There was another game of footy on last night at Campbelltown where a fanatical crowd watched a top line Samoan team play a top line Tongan team in a game of league. The Pacific Islands have always been union countries but short of taking the top players for the AllBlacks and Wallabies I'm not sure what union is doing to support these nations. League is giving them a voice and an opportunity to shine in their own right. I'd be very concerned if I was part of the IRB. League is posing a massive risk in the Islands at the moment and union needs to respond!

 

[Lorenzo]

I suspect this has been well covered, but it really miffs me that a chasing player who has eyes for the ball now has an obligation to leave his feet and leap into the air in order to avoid being penalised. If playing in the air is fundamentally dangerous, isn't it the player that jumps that is creating the danger if only one of them does? Surely staying on the ground is safer?

 

[Grant NZ]

Look at every contest in the air between two players jumping on their own accord. They almost always come into contact with each other but usually end up falling ok because they are travelling forward when they jump. If you have a guy who has been propelled into the air from a static position any slight contact is going to send him down awkwardly.

Equally though, a guy jumping (or being lifted) straight up and down is more likely to come off second best in a collision with a guy jumping into him. Yeah, there's some element of lever and fulcrum with the lifter, but that doesn't excuse the fact that the impetus for the jumper being tipped sideways is the guy jumping into him.

 

[Up the Guts]

Equally though, a guy jumping (or being lifted) straight up and down is more likely to come off second best in a collision with a guy jumping into him. Yeah, there's some element of lever and fulcrum with the lifter, but that doesn't excuse the fact that the impetus for the jumper being tipped sideways is the guy jumping into him.

That's my point, the contest is made dangerous because the guy is lifted and any slight contact is likely to see him land in an unsafe position. Given any contest in the air is going to involve some sort of contact between the two players if you believe it's all on the non-lifted contestant to make sure the lifted player lands safely you may as well give up on contestable kicks because every team will just give a guy a lift to avoid a contest.

 

[Dan54]

No, I don't. For starters, the lineout is based on static players, usually with 2 lifters - players go up, players go down. No lateral forces. Opposition players cannot contact them. Very clear. This situation is completely different - you have a player lifted, usually by a single lifter, and another plater coming at speed - therefore lateral force applied if there is ANY contact, be it legal or otherwise. The laws do not say two players in the air cannot contact the other, just that they cannot "play" the other, i.e. tackle them. The two scenarios are dynamically very different.

New​

​

Ok Cyclo, fair enough, I just think it fairly similar with what happened yesterday I thought Folau genuinely jumped for ball (well we all know he did), but as he missed his arm came down and dragged player down that was really too high by his legs which I think happens often in lineouts. Anyway I was probably digressing from yesterday incident anyway. I really think it needs to be cleared up, we all think it pretty unfair (even though ref is correct)with the outcome.
Though if you go to Irish site there is a lot of call for Red card, but we all know most of these things depend on your side of the fence.​

 

[TSR]

I won’t argue against the penalty against Folau - although I think it is very marginal contact.

However, I think World Rugby should move to outlaw lifting in general play. To me that is no different to moves to ban shoulder charges. The practice is inherently dangerous and has potential to contribute to major injury. It almost seems inevitable.

I don’t think a comparison with lifting in line outs is valid. The dynamics/situation are quite different.

 

[K974]

That's an awful lot of talky talky yet no mention of your t-shirt size.

Please DM @Cyclopath your preferred t-shirt size **IMMEDIATELY**



Regards,

--DP.

XL
tight on the arms , loose on the gut
We can add more to the back after the rwc , with a bit of luck we'll win a few games 3-0

 

[Gnostic]

Just to name a few:

• Coleman 'offside' when both feet clearly behind the try-line Hands were on ground in front of the offside and that is then offside
• ands Pinging Kepu for not rolling away, despite immediately rolling away He didn't roll away and obstructed quick ball (inconsistency is the real problem)
• Pinging Latu despite clearly supporting his own weight' first grab was ok, but then he put his hands on the ground past the ball and then went back onto the ball.
• The TMO taking 10 minutes to penalize Coleman for a completely legal clean-out. Fair call - TMO needs to be restricted and removed as an adjudicator
• Folau getting yellow carded because a player got dropped by his own teammate. Agree with this one. Its a bullshit call, but we need to ban lifting in general play as the single man lift is inherently unstable and I've seen people dropped without being touched, in a legal contest for the ball the risk is massive.

Could go on.




I get it, but i don't think either side were 25 penalties worth of ill-discipline. Not even close.

 

[Gnostic]

Not to the point that the jumper ends up landing on his back or head, no. Yes, lifting creates an element of danger, so does jumping for the ball. But WR (World Rugby), in their limited wisdom have basically put the onus on the chaser (as it is almost always the chaser entering the area second) to not challenge if it's gonna lead to the other guy landing badly. It's not an ideal situation by any means, but it is what it is and Folau's card isn't in any way out of the ordinary given the way this area has been ruled and the fact he was lifted doesn't materially alter things much.



In terms of mitigation, I guess it's something to consider. But I don't think the ref would take it into account all that much. A citing panel probably would, sure.

So the laws and the directives place all onus on the tackler to avoid contact with the head but Cane and Ofa don't get cited. This is exactly the same. Can't have your cake and eat it too.​

 

[K974]

haha keep dreaming.

One team on an upward trajectory and one team on a downward trajectory,
Other than when playing ireland I'm passionate about Australian rugby , if you want an outsiders opinion so many of the problems stem from thefarce that is super rugby , it's not even related to must win test rugby , how many must win games are there in a season , compare it to champions cup
They badly need to fix that Comp and get back some public interest
This along with probs at grassroot
I was also a big fan of cheicka but I think he's starting to carry on like a clown it's all well and good having passion but there is a line and he's crossed it time and time again

The upside is that the raw talent in this country is incredible , the players are here.
I just think they don't get enough exposure to game management in tight games in the super Comp
That amount of territory and possession was a game they should have closed out

As for the ref I've made the point and a heap of posters have here rugby is ruined by the constant bItching about the ref , to give you an example both sides think they were Rode in that game , ireland think they were due a penalty try . It's always the same now every team every game