Wallaby 31 players for 2015 RWC

[Slim 293]

The ability to suck in defenders, offload in the contact etc. would actually be try assist stuff.........

But as you said, you haven't watched enough games to pick the best second rowers...........

I'd like to think that I have watched enough to say that he is definitely one of our best second rowers, and his limitations in the lineout are not an issue when you have top jumpers at 5, 6 and 8.

 

[Intruder]

The Reds were definitely on top at scrum time against the Tahs, dominated but didn't wipe them off the park. The reason the Tahs have been poor in the last few weeks was the return of TPN being under done and not scrummaging for 6+ weeks.

PAE will be out for at least 4 weeks expected about 6 weeks til return but even then will look to rest before heading to France.

The 5th prop spot will be given to a THP, especially in the pool that we are in not mentioning anything further down the track. Chieka has mentioned he will take three specialist in three different positions THP and Hooker were both mentioned the other was still to be decided. So that means one out of Sio and Robinson will miss selection due to Kepu being able to play both sides in emergency situations.

There has also been a little rumour that Chieka will scrap adding players to the squad and is set to name his 35 as soon as this week to get the ball rolling for SA in three weeks time.

 

[Slim 293]

If there's only 2 looshead props it will be Slipper and Sio............

Toss up between Smith and Robinson as the third backup option, although Smith's scrummaging is superior.

 

[dru]

I'd like to think that I have watched enough to say that he [Skelton] is definitely one of our best second rowers, and his limitations in the lineout are not an issue when you have top jumpers at 5, 6 and 8.

Slim, I can't at all call Skelton "one of our best second rowers". Paradoxically I can call him one of our best "hard hitting forwards".

I think he deserves his spot, the problem is what happens next. Yes we need jumpers at 6 and 8. This kind of dictates Fardy and Higgenbotham. In turn it questions Hooper at 7. With Simmons (surely we pick our best line out caller in these circumstances) and Pocock... Do we have a pack that can play the Cheika style?

Final question, can Cheika work with a different style of forward pack to his game plan (or can he change the plan?)

Skelton brings major constraints on the look and feel of the team. I'm not at all saying it's all bad. But it is bloody confusing.

 

[Joe Blow]

He is going to have to work with a different style of forward pack and with a different style of play or else we will be caned.
He uses what he has at the Tahs to create his best pack and plays within their limitations. He will do the same at test level but he has more quality and a wider skill set to choose from. I would hope he develops several different playing styles with his squad and the personnel he has at his disposal for the Wallabies.
They will not be Waratahs MKII.

 

[topgun]

Skelton can't jump.. At 150 kg is it any wonder. The stats versus jones are staggering. A 2nd rower that cAnt jump, catch or compete in lineouts.

I actually saw Skelton take a line out late in the 2nd half and if memory serves me right it went right down his throat.

Yes he is so big that he can suck in defenders but it is not dynamic, it isn't try assist stuff.

This kind of stuff is exactly why Jones needs to have a starting spot with Skelton. It's time to throw caution to the wind and select some seriously inform young locks that complement each others abilities, rather than underachieving experienced players. Jones has the same issues that Simmons does with physicality, is seemingly a terrific linout option (2nd in SANZAR) and gets through an assload of work around the field. With Skelton more than bringing the physicality to the plate he would bring balance to the pack. The time for stepping lightly is over and if Chieka is going to coach the Wallabies anything like the Champion team he had last year Jones is a no brainer.

In the back row many national teams could do a lot worse than Hooper/ Pocock, Fardy and Higginbotham. Dennis and Schatz just doesn't have the package needed for the Wallabies and McMahon is unlucky not to fit into a side that needs balance. If only Steve Mafi was not capped for Tonga, he'd be a smokey for 6.
In the future but definitely after the World cup I think the Wallabies have the resources for the biggest, steamrollinest, bulldozingest pack in the world with Skelton, Timani at 8, and Vaea Coming off the bench

 

[Train Without a Station]

Topgun, the reason Jones has the 2nd best line out stats is because many of his competitors missed games.

On a per game basis he is up there for line out takes, but players who have played less games have amassed more steals. He's clearly a good line out option, but nowhere near the best line out option.

 

[topgun]

I don't think you're getting the point, the linout, while important to retaining posession and having a complete game is important, it shouldn't be the main reason a player is picked. yes Jones might not be the golden boy of Australian lineouts, it's hard to argue that he's not a great lineout option. Jones' game to me is much more complete than Simmons, like I said his incredible workrate around the park more than makes up for what we may miss with Skelton, while not having a dopey, error prone and frankly out of form 'linout general' picked on naught but reputation. It's time to pick kearns from 2nd grade again...

 

[Braveheart81]

Every selection involves some level of compromise because there will always be another player in the same position who is better at a certain skill than that player.

Luke Jones has had a fantastic Super Rugby season and on the back of that I think he'll get an opportunity to show whether he can convert that form to test rugby.

Simmons is a pretty known quantity at this point. He's become a strong scrummager and he's our best lineout operator at test level in the last couple of years. He falls down in the physicality and ball running stakes.

The risk with Jones is that he isn't quite as good in the lineout so if he has to a) call it (could potentially be Fardy or Higgers otherwise) and b) be the main jumper and he doesn't do that as well as Simmons, our lineout could suffer a reasonable amount. If he can't continue to be much better around the park than Simmons then all of a sudden he doesn't really have an upside over Simmons.

Lock has been just about our weakest area in the last four years. Simmons, Carter and Horwill have been solid without being standouts. It is a tough comparison but the All Blacks and Springboks have some superb locks and it is an area we get consistently beaten in. We need more out of our locks but we need to achieve that without sacrificing our already struggling scrum and our lineout which is only just good enough.

 

[lewisr]

Conspiracy theory: satisfied with the 2014 title, Cheika deliberately lost the semi against the highlanders to give the kiwis a false sense of security and provide the wallabies with an extra week of preparation. We will now go on to win the bledisloe back and bill. Cheika = genius

A man can dream.


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[RugbyReg]

PAO out of consideration. Shoulder injury. Out of RWC consideration.

 

[Tomikin]

Playing Smith is pointless. He's a known quantity in a position with miles of depth.

If you're going to rotate your squad you want to find out things you don't know. Like if a player is up to that level.

We all know Smith is.

Given the constraints on injury replacements I think the wallabies would be better served attempting a game plan with no specialist 7 on the chance of injury in a game. That's something that we don't want to find out in a semi final or something.

Well the question is, is he still the best Openside player for Australia, or has he lost his Mojo.. Wouldn't you rather find out in the RC then the World Cup.

If we are just going on what we know, then he get's selected at 7 as he is the most all round experienced player of the lot..

 

[Joe Blow]

Yes. Luke Jones has had a fantastic Super season, but let's not forget that he did struggle with the physicality and speed of the game at test level in his single opportunity. I know that was a while ago and he has developed since then. Hopefully he will have ample opportunity in the RC to show he is now ready. By the same token Coleman is also a very good lineout option with a bit more size and aggression. He should also be given a chance in the RC to show if he is ready.
For me a second row of Skelton and Coleman would be sensational if they have the collective mental fortitude to pull it off. Surrounded by experience in front and behind with the likes of Slipper, Moore, Kepu, Fardy, Pocock and Higgers they may just be the tonic to turn our fortunes around. Fardy and Higginbotham can call lineouts and we could have Simmons or Horwill on the bench as back-up.
You know Cheika is going to need to really shake it up a bit in a couple of areas to re-energize our 2015 campaign and the back 5 would be a good starting point.

 

[Braveheart81]

I don't think Coleman will make the 35 man squad. I think he's a bit too raw. He's had standout games at Super Rugby level but also had plenty of very quiet ones.

 

[topgun]

Yes. Luke Jones has had a fantastic Super season, but let's not forget that he did struggle with the physicality and speed of the game at test level in his single opportunity. I know that was a while ago and he has developed since then. Hopefully he will have ample opportunity in the RC to show he is now ready. By the same token Coleman is also a very good lineout option with a bit more size and aggression. He should also be given a chance in the RC to show if he is ready.

You know Cheika is going to need to really shake it up a bit in a couple of areas to re-energize our 2015 campaign and the back 5 would be a good starting point.

I'll get off my soapbox soon, but I think Cheika needs to test the Jones Skelton 2nd row in the RC, I just think as far as balancing the pack goes if Jones keeps up the pace he'll be a great option. I think that Jones has the same physical issues as Simmons while having a much better workrate around the park. If you have Skelton churning up the turf, you need a thoroughbred to keep the pace and do the dirty work.

 

[mudskipper]

Really dont get Hunt making the Wallabies when we already have too many great backs... honestly where would he fit in? Rather see a younger guy get a start in tge wider squad...

 

[Joe Blow]

Coleman just needs direction, more direction than he is receiving at the Force.
We cannot do well in this RWC without changing tack a bit and taking some risks. Look at SA and NZ. They throw these big strong going guys into the deep end and see if they sink or swim.

 

[Braveheart81]

We cannot do well in this RWC without changing tack a bit and taking some risks. Look at SA and NZ. They throw these big strong going guys into the deep end and see if they sink or swim.

I really don't get this logic. We need to put our best team on the park and hope they play well and can execute the game plan they've trained for.

Who exactly have South Africa and New Zealand 'thrown in the deep end to see if they sink or swim'? They've consistently selected new players on the back of excellent form. They're not bypassing better performed players for uncapped and inexperienced players.

 

[barbarian]

We have this every year BH. It's the romantic notion of the debutant, unsullied by previous losses and with endless potential for greatness. They have never played so have never disappointed us.

Every year we fall in love with a guy like Coleman, and let ourselves believe that he can tear up the test arena like he did (occasionally) for the Force. We had it last year with Sam Carter, but like most of our debutant crushes it only lasts a test or two before we realise they just aren't as good as we had imagined.

But this time comes around each year and we convince ourselves that this year will be different, and this new player WILL dominate like we all hope he will.

I get suckered in too. I'd love to see Coleman play for the Wallabies, and I resent your attempts to bring reality into the equation.
.

 

[Braveheart81]

Yeah, I remember you posting about this in detail a few pages ago.

This strange expectation that somehow the coach owes it to fans to show us that someone new isn't ready for test rugby against the best sides because we don't trust that he can make that decision on hi own based on what he's seen in Super Rugby and on the training paddock.