Wallaby Captaincy

[cyclopath]

I would have to agree Genia has not shown "really good captain" to me, and TWAS has outlined it pretty well. If he gets back to his best form, which has been a while back, very happy to see him out there, but just playing, not skippering.

 

[Brumby Jack]

I would have to agree Genia has not shown "really good captain"

Remember after the Perth game a few years back when he got injured and took Kafer's question the wrong way?

 

[Richo]

Pocock was not a great Wallaby captain, nor was Horwill, nor was Genia. Hooper isn't either, but going back to a retread is not the answer.

If the team is going to move on from Hooper (and I'm not convinced they should, although he is looking shaky), I'd prefer Slipper.

 

[qwerty51]

What was wrong with Horwill? Slipper doesn't play 80 mins and nor should he.

 

[cyclopath]

What was wrong with Horwill? Slipper doesn't play 80 mins and nor should he.

I would agree. Horwill is / was fine, if he can get his card stamped as "certain starter" again. Would have no problem with him.

 

[Scoey]

I've never understood the criticism of Horwill's captaincy. He wasn't a 'great' but certainly did a good job! Some folk don't like those that wear their heart on their sleeve but I much prefer that to the strong silent type.


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[Train Without a Station]

Some just never liked Horwill

 

[CruzinSanta]

Hmmm - I have been sitting here going through the list and I cant think of one person who doesnt have baggage or was simply not good enough.

In a captain I want ............
Someone who can be like Sean Fitzpatrick.

I want someone who can influence the ref without sounding like he is whinging.
I want someone who is a leader of men.
Who is respected equally in public as he is within his team.
Who is a ruthless bastard, who plays just the right side of the line the whole match.
A leader who at the end of the game applauds the opposition when his team loses, and when they win is humble (ok maybe not exactly like Fitzy - he was humble in words but had that aucklander smirk most of the time)
Equally this individual most be locked in as first pick every game.

Moore fills most of these categories but is injured and you dont get a nickname like Squeak for nothing.

 

[Brumby Runner]

They're captain and vice-captain.

Whilst I think they were far too positive in their defence of Beale and they stepped into the question of whether KB (Kurtley Beale) should be sacked over it too much (they could have just maintained their support without specifically addressing that question), I'd like to think that the team made a decision that they would publicly support their teammates at all times and this is just that showing through. If the captain and vice-captain were two different people we'd still be hearing the same sort of support for the teammate.

That's a very big call. My big take on it is that if Ben Mowen was still at the helm, he wouldn't be likely to publicly say the same things that Hooper and AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) have said. Similarly, any AB captain in a similar situation would be more likely to support the team rather than an individual team member caught out in such an act.

 

[Tomikin]

True story. These days I don't think Slim wouldn't be in the top 5 most rabid Brumbies fans on the forum. Possibly not even top 10.

Yeah but that's cos he has 7 alias.

Bring back the badge.. HB FOR CAPTAIN

 

[Tomikin]

They're captain and vice-captain.

Whilst I think they were far too positive in their defence of Beale and they stepped into the question of whether KB (Kurtley Beale) should be sacked over it too much (they could have just maintained their support without specifically addressing that question), I'd like to think that the team made a decision that they would publicly support their teammates at all times and this is just that showing through. If the captain and vice-captain were two different people we'd still be hearing the same sort of support for the teammate.

What he should have said is I support everyone with in the wallabies and all involved in making us successful. Both Di and Beale. Publicly uniformed

 

[Tomikin]

Not really my point, yes Slipper was probably the only other option, but Hooper had just captained the the Tahs to the title.

I still think it was the right choice

Now next year who knows, Pocock? I doubt if he will ever get near his previous level, he hasn't played for how long?



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Hooper didn't Dennis was Captain. Hooper captained the end of the season.

He will learn and get better but youth and experience is his problem.

Dennis will be back as captain of the Tahs next year.

 

[Jagman]

What was wrong with Horwill? Slipper doesn't play 80 mins and nor should he.

I can give two reasons. His infamous complaint to the ref in the 2nd bled of 2013 about what NZ got away with in the 1st game. Yes he sounded childish.

And the fact the played the last lions test injured just because he didn't want to miss out. That actually makes me quite bitter towards him.


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[fatprop]

Hooper didn't Dennis was Captain. Hooper captained the end of the season.

He will learn and get better but youth and experience is his problem.

Dennis will be back as captain of the Tahs next year.

I thought that was my point

 

[Train Without a Station]

I can give two reasons. His infamous complaint to the ref in the 2nd bled of 2013 about what NZ got away with in the 1st game. Yes he sounded childish.

And the fact the played the last lions test injured just because he didn't want to miss out. That actually makes me quite bitter towards him.


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The infamous complaint? So infamous a lot of us don't even remember it?

You are aware coaches and players constantly bring up these sorts of things in the media to try and influence referees? How dare he try and point out the indiscretions of the other team to try and have the referee's focus on it.

As for your other comment, I'm just going to assume you are a shit human, because I'd guarantee almost anybody would do whatever they had to in order to be part of a once in a lifetime event. He's had the guts to say now it was the wrong decision.

George Smith was in no state to go back out there after his head knock and was largely ineffective, are you bitter towards him too?

 

[Scrubber2050]

The only criticisms I had of Horwill as captain was his form was poor and he just didn't seem to be able to communicate with Refs. Whilst most players didn't like Mowen I thought his captaincy was great. He played pretty well but the Refs seemed to listen to him a bit more than James.

Pocock is untested and hasn't played for 2 years. Slipper probably good choice but because he's replaced at 60 odd, makes it hard because I reckon the last 10-15 minutes is extremely impotant. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) is far too out of the action and he's fucking off anyway.

Sort of comes back to Moore, by default - if he comes back early and back to his best straight away. that will be a hard ask as well

 

[Jagman]

The infamous complaint? So infamous a lot of us don't even remember it?

You are aware coaches and players constantly bring up these sorts of things in the media to try and influence referees? How dare he try and point out the indiscretions of the other team to try and have the referee's focus on it.

As for your other comment, I'm just going to assume you are a shit human, because I'd guarantee almost anybody would do whatever they had to in order to be part of a once in a lifetime event. He's had the guts to say now it was the wrong decision.

George Smith was in no state to go back out there after his head knock and was largely ineffective, are you bitter towards him too?

Wow I'm a shit human cause I would prefer the captain to put the team before his own ambition? Everyone used to complain about Elsom continuing to captain even though he could barely run.

The George smith example was "in game," once the game starts you have to play on, there's only 23 players, horwill could have scratched himself.

Perhaps it's not as infamous as I thought but the ref made him look pretty silly after he made his complaint about the previous game on the field. "That's not this game" was something like what he said. Are you saying there's no difference between complaining about what the team gets away with at a press meeting to how one should relate to the ref on the field?


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[Scrubber2050]

Genia would not be in consideration. He has enough trouble getting his own game right and the responsibuilty of capataincy would impede the former.

Suppose QC (Quade Cooper) is an option. The 10 spot has been warmed all year for him by Beale and Foley but there is no doubt Link has been just waiting for his return. I think he has the respect of the Coach and probably the players. Might be a good choice as well

 

[Train Without a Station]

Wow I'm a shit human cause I would prefer the captain to put the team before his own ambition?

No. It's because you cannot at all relate to the person in the moment of a once in a career opportunity, and sit there speaking absolutes after the fact since you've never been in that position.

Once the game starts, you do not "have to play on". You know those 8 blokes on the bench? Like one of them, Michael Hooper. You might remember him because he replaced Smith when he first went off.

Did the referee let the All Blacks get away with the same offences? How do you know he didn't take the complaint on board and officiating accordingly? Just because you didn't like how it came across, it doesn't mean it wasn't effective.

 

[Train Without a Station]

The other factor is we have to consider who the replacements are.

There were 4 locks used at the time. Horwill, Simmons, Timani and Douglas. Douglas partnered Horwill and played some of the worst rugby of his career. Simmons was pillared for being too soft and Timani for being no use in the line out and no impact around the field.

Were people telling James, "we can't win without you?" It would have likely left a Timani, Douglas starting line out. With Palu and Smith in the back row, Mowen would have been the only decent jumper.

Guess we could have just got slaughtered in the line out instead.