Waratahs 2014

[Braveheart81]

So if you write a book, that makes you a good coach?

I am not arguing he isn't a good coach, but I do find it a little strange that people in online forums who have in all likelihood never met Topo or (more importantly) been coached by him are throwing his name around as an 'essential' appointment to the coaching staff.
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I agree that writing a book doesn't equate in any way to his coaching ability.

I think the fact that he was an excellent scrummager when he played and has then spent a huge amount of time researching the issue and interviewing many other exponents of scrummaging suggests that he at least has the technical knowledge required.

Whether he can transfer that technical knowledge to the players is an unknown.

 

[I like to watch]

And our good friend Michael Foley

What?
You never pay any attention to the stats,or the post match interviews?

 

[I like to watch]

?..........but I do find it a little strange that people in online forums who have in all likelihood never met Topo or (more importantly) been coached by him are throwing his name around as an 'essential' appointment to the coaching staff.
.

Don't get on the forums much?

 

[Rob42]

And our good friend Michael Foley

To be fair, Michael Foley demonstrates that a very good forwards coach does not automatically make a good head coach. Perhaps Link should pick him up as Wallabies forwards coach when the Force tire of him.

 

[Zander]

I'm not sure that's 100% correct, but when these guys have moved to the next level, i.e. tests, they've been found wanting.

I'm not sure that having the best scrum in Australia is that much of an achievement. It's a world game and it's a facet in which we are way below world's best practice.

What's not correct about that? Don't even know why you mentioned Test level, at Super Rugby level the Waratahs do not have an issue with their scrum. It's regularly dominant and yes even against the Crusaders.

 

[Hawko]

What's not correct about that? Don't even know why you mentioned Test level, at Super Rugby level the Waratahs do not have an issue with their scrum. It's regularly dominant and yes even against the Crusaders.

I wish that this was true, but the only time I can recall anything but parity or less was against the Crusaders reserve scrum this year. All I can say is that the Waratahs scrum is regularly dominant against the other Australian teams, but not markedly so against the Brumbies and Force. The Brumbies this year IMO were better and I don't recall the Tahs ever mullering a NZ or SA scrum like everyone's doing to the Wallabies this year.

 

[Quick Hands]

What's not correct about that? Don't even know why you mentioned Test level, at Super Rugby level the Waratahs do not have an issue with their scrum. It's regularly dominant and yes even against the Crusaders.

I don't agree that they dominate.

I mentioned test matches as that's the end game isn't it?

I would have thought, that even accepting your assertation that they have the best scrum in super rugby, (which I don't accept, but let's assume that is correct), the fact that they struggle at the next level would indicate that they have technical issues which can be corrected doesn't it? Show me a person who's content with where they are and who doesn't think they can improve, then you have a person who will never achieve their full potential.

 

[Quick Hands]

I am not arguing he isn't a good coach, but I do find it a little strange that people in online forums who have in all likelihood never met Topo or (more importantly) been coached by him are throwing his name around as an 'essential' appointment to the coaching staff.
.

But some of us have met him and been to coaching seminars that he has run. I don't claim to be an authority on front row play, but there were many in attendance who do, who were very impressed with what he said and did.

I haven't seen the word 'essential' mentioned in any post but yours. I think there's a common view that summaging in Australia needs to be improved and here we have a person who seems to have at least some of the knowledge that we need, but we don't appear to be taking any advantage of his knowledge either as an assistant coach, consultant, etc. He has the added bonus of not having aspirations of a head coaching role.

 

[Zander]

The Waratahs couldn't really give a shit what happens at Test level, their team is a Super Rugby one and their aim is to win the competition.

I think you're confusing the Waratahs as a NSW Rugby entity in a development/stepping-stone process. That's no longer the case with professionalism.

 

[Quick Hands]

The Waratahs couldn't really give a shit what happens at Test level, their team is a Super Rugby one and their aim is to win the competition.

I think you're confusing the Waratahs as a NSW Rugby entity in a development/stepping-stone process. That's no longer the case with professionalism.

If your players can dominate at test level, they'll be even more dominant at super level, which in turn gives you a better chance to win the super title.

Whilst professinalism may have decreased the nexus, there is still a significant relationship between the different levels of rugby, if in nothing else, certainly financially. i.e. ARU need to top up payments to the best players. I'd have thought they'd be far more likely to do so where a player was dominant at test level rather than just at super level.

 

[Zander]

There's also the issue that the Waratahs scrum consists of Robinson, Polota-Nau, Kepu, Ryan and those players are not being picked at international level.

 

[fatprop]

There's also the issue that the Waratahs scrum consists of Robinson, Polota-Nau, Kepu, Ryan and those players are not being picked at international level.

I don't see that as a problem at all

 

[Gnostic]

The Waratahs couldn't really give a shit what happens at Test level, their team is a Super Rugby one and their aim is to win the competition.

I think you're confusing the Waratahs as a NSW Rugby entity in a development/stepping-stone process. That's no longer the case with professionalism.

hence the need the remove the training of the scrum from their realm, or at least hold national specialist training for all forward packs at each franchise and add in their coaching staff. make it compulsory. There can be no doubt that maybe outside of Foley and perhaps Fischer (who is the Pony scrum coach?) the development of the scrum in Australia is a disgrace. I would argue that even at the Foley coached sides and the Brumbies the basic skills of key players is lacking in this regard, and has been for a long time which indicates the skills of the coaches is lacking or they simply do not regard the scrum as that important regardless of the rhetoric.

 

[Quick Hands]

hence the need the remove the training of the scrum from their realm, or at least hold national specialist training for all forward packs at each franchise and add in their coaching staff. make it compulsory. There can be no doubt that maybe outside of Foley and perhaps Fischer (who is the Pony scrum coach?) the development of the scrum in Australia is a disgrace. I would argue that even at the Foley coached sides and the Brumbies the basic skills of key players is lacking in this regard, and has been for a long time which indicates the skills of the coaches is lacking or they simply do not regard the scrum as that important regardless of the rhetoric.

The Australian experience seems to be that even when the head coach is a front rower, the other demands on his time mean that this area is neglected. Hence, the need for a specialist scrum coach. Alec Evans is the stand out in this regard, but is probably getting on a bit for a full time position. Each super side really needs someone not only to work with the squad, but at the levels below.

 

[Gnostic]

I am suggesting somebody in a role like Mike Cron. Coming into each side and correcting the basic problems that are plaguing the Wallabies. The Super sides are obviously not performing this role effectively on their own.

Agree Evans has been a long time standout, and then Foley and Pato Noriega. Given the lack of results under Blades I have to say I have no faith that he is effective. As for Topo, has he ever really coached? I would certainly say that he would seem to be suited for a consultancy role. The fact that the ARU reportedly has knocked back his offers of a National Scrum school is worrying given the continual rhetoric we hear from them regarding this aspect of play.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

<snip>
Each super side really needs someone not only to work with the squad, but at the levels below.

It could be argued that this should occur under the lead and coordination of the ARU HPU staff, and if they do not have someone on their staff with the necessary skills, then they arrange for an appropriately qualified and competent consultant to undertake this role.

It is important to have a consistent view from the top all the way down to the under 10's at village clubs.

 

[Quick Hands]

I am suggesting somebody in a role like Mike Cron. Coming into each side and correcting the basic problems that are plaguing the Wallabies. The Super sides are obviously not performing this role effectively on their own.

Agree Evans has been a long time standout, and then Foley and Pato Noriega. Given the lack of results under Blades I have to say I have no faith that he is effective. As for Topo, has he ever really coached? I would certainly say that he would seem to be suited for a consultancy role. The fact that the ARU reportedly has knocked back his offers of a National Scrum school is worrying given the continual rhetoric we hear from them regarding this aspect of play.

I recollect that Topo played a scrum coach role for Norths grade and colts - in the early 00s. He worked right through the club and I recall at the time people were impressed and results were good. I think one year they had all 4 grades in grand finals, plus 2 or 3 grades of colts. I think that the club then had some financial difficulties and had to let him go.

I think he may be a bit outside the square and a bit too non-establishment for some in Australian rugby.

 

[Quick Hands]

It could be argued that this should occur under the lead and coordination of the ARU HPU staff, and if they do not have someone on their staff with the necessary skills, then they arrange for an appropriately qualified and competent consultant to undertake this role.

It is important to have a consistent view from the top all the way down to the under 10's at village clubs.

You'd like to think Nuci would have been on to it in his time there, but apparently not.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

The Man with the Faecal Touch should have been on to a lot of things and so should have ultimate boss JO'N.

Nuci has been gone for a while. There has been a reorganisation. Whitaker has been promoted to a Direct Reporting position to the Pulveriser himself. The opportunity to keep sheeting all the blame for current woes to Nuci has long gone. The current incumbents have had sufficient time to recognise shortfalls and deficiencies and to take steps to develop or re-establish capabilities to cover those deficiencies.

 

[p.Tah]

Remember when Folau joined the Tahs Ricky Stewart was filthy calling him 'dishonourable and greedy.' Surprise surprise, 18 months later Stewart leaves his Parramatta contract and signs with Canberra for 'family reasons'. When asked about this apparent double standards Folau would have been forgiven if he returned serve and let rip into Stewart, but no he said:

I hold no grudges .......[Stewart has] come out and said that he's chosen to go for family reasons and I wish him all the best however long he's there at Canberra.

Not only is he an incredible talent on the field, he handles himself well off the field. Hopefully that rubs off on KB (Kurtley Beale) and perhaps he could have a chat with JOC (James O'Connor).