Waratahs vs Crusaders - 2011R03

[Spewn]

Todd gets a pilfer when he is the tackler and doesn't release - in the crusaders 22. Last year would have penalized the other way. But overall the ref wasn't too bad.

Halangahu should never play again. Fitzpatrick is not up to it. There was not a single pilfer by the tahs. Mccutcheon was never going to get one. Robinson looked the most likely. Perhaps he should be a 7.

 

[whatty]

Irespective of so called bad refs the Saders were the better team on the night.

Tahs are a differnt side (see crap) without Barnes.

 

[cyclopath]

I think the Tahs don't want to get sucked into playing how they don't want to, if you get what I mean. They have often lost the collisions against the Crusaders, and if they can show up at the breakdowns like they did last week, they will be a long way to winning this game. Trust their (good) defence. And shut down SBW and get him out of his comfort zone. Don't get suckered in to playing high risk stuff. I think their basic structures are good enough to win. The big "if" for me is whether the Crusaders play a level higher than otherwise, running on the emotion of the game and situation.

As I walked home from the pub after watching that pile of dross, I reflected on my last post...
Tahs get suckered in - check, kick away first phase possession ineffectually, throw 10% no-look passes repeatedly, run one out and get reamed at the breakdown and so on... CHECK!
Turn up at the breakdowns - NOT
Trust defence - NOT
No high risk stuff - NOT
Basic structure - NOT
And the bolded bit - lose the collisions all game - CHECK.

Not much more to say, really.
Well done Crusaders, very effective performance. Shows why they are always a benchmark team.
They turned up with something to play for, the Tahs seemed to be mainly about claiming the frequent flyer miles.

 

[Spewn]

Cyclo,

Harsh but fair. I particularly found the lack of pressure at the breakdown very poor. The Force is the only team so far to really dominate at the breakdown (not that they got the result for it). It is the selection of the backrow that counts.

 

[MrMouse]

Refereeing was truly, utterly atrocious which I think is a pity, because the Saders played us off the park and it detracts from a massive performance by them.

On our side, the forwards lost their mojo the instant TPN left the field, until then we'd been fairly much manhandling them. From that point on, Mowen was the only consistently physically dominant forward. Dennis was ok, the rest fairly shameful. The second row stopped shoving in the scrums, and Kepu played Benn back into the starting side. Douglas had far and away his worst game in a blue jersey, and Fitzpatrick's hands were coated in WD-40.

Don't even get me started on the dysfunction of the backline. Hangers, similarly, probably his worst game for the Tahs and showed in a massive way his lack of match condition and confidence. Carter-Horne looked good early, but as Fruen and SBW began to roam they were all over our defence and Cross was ordinary/invisible. Kurtley was pretty awesome on the whole, Schmoo likewise. Turner neither good nor bad. Burgo tackling better than the forwards, generally pretty solid passing not to mention a great little try.

WALK OF SHAME:
S. Kepu
D. Fitzpatrick
A. Baxter (although disagree with people above re scrummaging)
D. Mumm
K. Douglas
D. Halangahu
R. Cross

When 7/22 players are 4/10 or worse, you will not beat a team of that quality. Several others were 5-6/10 too.

The key here will be to see what the players and coaches learn from all this...

 

[barbarian]

Yeah we weren't there. Thoroughly beaten in every way. There were excuses though- we missed Barnes badly, our tight forwards had clearly not recovered from the Reds game. Mowen, Douglas, Dennis and Mumm were noticeably flat and lumbered on defence. It's all good to have great linespeed but if you can't turn around and chase if the ball goes wide then you will struggle.

I was impressed by the way we stuck with it in the last 20. The game was gone and we were outplayed, and a lesser side would have conceded 50. But we deprived the Crusaders of a crucial bonus point, and nearly got one ourselves out of nowhere. Its not a huge positive and I would much rather we won, but there are things we can take away.

 

[cyclopath]

The scrum thing intrigued me. First 20 min - couldn't split them, neither got the better of the other. 2nd 20 - I might have missed it, but did all the Tahs forwards swap positions for a bit? Really, why did the backward skates come out? Was it just TPN? Watching Baxter, I don't believe it was all him. One of those collapses was the Crusaders LHP turning in and dropping. I was pessimistic about the second half.
Then the scrums went all weird - they went back, we wheeled them, they wheeled us, we went back - I couldn't work it out.
I am going to watch the recording to see if it makes any sense.

 

[Torn Hammy]

We could have had 30 players on the field and still lost. They were terrific in both attack and particularly defence.

Their fitness level was far superior to ours and they just kept coming. Too much pressure to play our game.

The ref also allowed them to play offside all game and in the 2nd half they were penalised in 8 consecutive rucks without one card or even a stern lecture.

 

[tic]

Maybe the Tahs played above themselves against the Reds last week.

Back to reality this week.

 

[cyclopath]

Refereeing was truly, utterly atrocious which I think is a pity, because the Saders played us off the park and it detracts from a massive performance by them.

This is the key - it is a pity, because it becomes a focus, when the real problems had nothing to do with him. But I agree he was poor.
Bad miss on the forward pass for their first try. That was not even a marginal one, and the line ball ones I have no problem with.
Very odd call when one of the Tahs was pinged for coming around the side when he actually stepped straight over the only Crusaders player lying between him and the ball. I mean, he stepped OVER the gate.
A few knock ons either way seemed to be optional calls.
Turner never onside at the breakdown leading to Burgess' try.
He pinged Robinson trying to get a pilfer, when he was OK, but the culprit was the Tahs player who didn't release the tackled player - but he specifically named FatCat. End result - OK, but inaccurate.
But the Tahs were by so far the worse team, that all that was just a sideshow.

 

[MrMouse]

This is the key - it is a pity, because it becomes a focus, when the real problems had nothing to do with him. But I agree he was poor.
Bad miss on the forward pass for their first try. That was not even a marginal one, and the line ball ones I have no problem with.
Very odd call when one of the Tahs was pinged for coming around the side when he actually stepped straight over the only Crusaders player lying between him and the ball. I mean, he stepped OVER the gate.
A few knock ons either way seemed to be optional calls.
Turner never onside at the breakdown leading to Burgess' try.
He pinged Robinson trying to get a pilfer, when he was OK, but the culprit was the Tahs player who didn't release the tackled player - but he specifically named FatCat. End result - OK, but inaccurate.
But the Tahs were by so far the worse team, that all that was just a sideshow.

Pretty much could have hit 'agree' but I like to see my name up in lights.

One could go on all night about his cockups but it conveniently sidesteps the point. Sure, almost every scrum the second half they bored in but wgaf. Sure, there was an amnesty on knock ons, but wgaf. The key is that the crusaders 8 were all over our 8, and whether there's correlation or causation, their 10-15 were all over our 10-15. The end.

 

[Bowside]

This is the key - it is a pity, because it becomes a focus, when the real problems had nothing to do with him. But I agree he was poor.
Bad miss on the forward pass for their first try. That was not even a marginal one, and the line ball ones I have no problem with.
Very odd call when one of the Tahs was pinged for coming around the side when he actually stepped straight over the only Crusaders player lying between him and the ball. I mean, he stepped OVER the gate.
A few knock ons either way seemed to be optional calls.
Turner never onside at the breakdown leading to Burgess' try.
He pinged Robinson trying to get a pilfer, when he was OK, but the culprit was the Tahs player who didn't release the tackled player - but he specifically named FatCat. End result - OK, but inaccurate.
But the Tahs were by so far the worse team, that all that was just a sideshow.

If you compare last weeks game to this one, they were refereed very differently. Last week players were not asked to roll away as quickly and as such the tahs were able to effectively slow down the reds ball. This week the ref made sure both sides were getting quick ball (as the rule should be played) and as such the crusaders capitalised and were able to move the ball and find a way around the tahs defensive line, which really took the wind out of the sails of the bulky tahs forward pack. Someone made the point about the crusaders being offside, I could have said the same thing about the tahs last week, but I actually don't think either team (crusaders or last weeks tahs) was very offside at all, rather they were just getting off the line quicker than their more tired opponents.

The main thing that stood out to me is the importance of playing a fetcher, as well as fit forwards who can move the ball and still perform at the set piece. Reds should take note.

 

[Spewn]

Bowside, your last para is exactly what I was trying to say.

 

[cyclopath]

If you compare last weeks game to this one, they were refereed very differently. Last week players were not asked to roll away as quickly and as such the tahs were able to effectively slow down the reds ball. This week the ref made sure both sides were getting quick ball (as the rule should be played) and as such the crusaders capitalised and were able to find a way around the tahs defensive line, which really took the wind out of the sails of the bulk tahs forward pack. Someone made the point about the crusaders being offside, I could have said the same thing about the tahs last week, but I actually don't think either team (crusaders or last weeks tahs) was very offside at all, rather they were just getting off the line quicker than their more tired opponents.

The main thing that stood out to me is the importance of playing a fetcher, as well as fit forwards who can move the ball and still perform at the set piece. Reds should take note.

Very good post.
Waugh was a liability - too slow, too injured.
Crusaders were too fast and accurate at the breakdowns, and the Tahs never adapted. And they moved the Tahs defenders from side to side quickly, negating any grunt they might have brought (if they had actually brought any). Almost every time a Tahs runner went one out, there was at least one or two Crusader forwards ready to contest as soon as they hit the deck; hardly ever did the Tahs repay the compliment.
Plus the Tahs missed so many tackles. Muggleton will have a fit.

 

[MrMouse]

If you compare last weeks game to this one, they were refereed very differently. Last week players were not asked to roll away as quickly and as such the tahs were able to effectively slow down the reds ball. This week the ref made sure both sides were getting quick ball (as the rule should be played) and as such the crusaders capitalised and were able to move the ball and find a way around the tahs defensive line, which really took the wind out of the sails of the bulky tahs forward pack. Someone made the point about the crusaders being offside, I could have said the same thing about the tahs last week, but I actually don't think either team (crusaders or last weeks tahs) was very offside at all, rather they were just getting off the line quicker than their more tired opponents.

The main thing that stood out to me is the importance of playing a fetcher, as well as fit forwards who can move the ball and still perform at the set piece. Reds should take note.

I almost agree, except for the bolded point - I felt that the Saders were given a lot of latitude in tacklers not releasing and not rolling away. I think that the Reds did note that, as they have Robinson starting and a 5/2 split to bring Gill onto the bench - hopefully they do better, but I admit I tipped the Brumbies.

 

[Richo]

After the messy start, the Saders played inspired rugby. Well-deserved winners and could easily have hung 50 points on us. At the pub we all thought that's what would happen.

For the Tahs, I think others have pointed out what went wrong pretty well. But like Barbarian said, there were positives to take away. I thought the fight back in the last 30 minutes was impressive and showed a side with real character. It would have been easy to give up on that game but they held out some strenuous attack and fought hard for that last try. Burgo was again outstanding and I thought the Tahs best. The last 10 minutes showed that when Barnes is not available, Beale should play at 10. Turner can cover 15 and Pakalani can take 14.

Defense was actually pretty good when you consider how bad we were at the breakdown. Three tries could easily have been 5 or 6. Beale deserves massive credit for saving multiple tries -- he even almost held up the second Fruearn try.

Tahs should hold their heads up after that game, but there are clearly huge holes to fill going forward. TPN, Horne, Waugh. That could be the season, right there.

 

[Bowside]

I almost agree, except for the bolded point - I felt that the Saders were given a lot of latitude in tacklers not releasing and not rolling away. I think that the Reds did note that, as they have Robinson starting and a 5/2 split to bring Gill onto the bench - hopefully they do better, but I admit I tipped the Brumbies.

I guess that's where the suggested nz bias comes in. But then again, maybe it wasn't so much leniency but rather the tahs hesitation to push the rules in the way the crusaders did. We see this all the time with nz teams, god knows the all blacks love to do it.

 

[skullring]

Kane Douglas played like a mongoloid. Some of those abysmal tackling efforts had me tearing out carpet, what a pathetic excuse for a human being. It also kills me inside that Halangahu is the second best fly half in all of New South Wales. He's shit. Bad times man, Bad times

 

[tranquility]

Thank god the tahs are not as good as we all thought, I was beginning to get scared that I wouldn't be able to handle the bravado of continually proud NSWelshmen in here. Reds in Canberra should get the show back on the road however.

 

[Hawko]

Pollock was truly awful and some of our problems came from that. The Crusaders were allowed to play off their feet all night and we were pinged even when we were on our feet. The Crusaders threw all their lineout ball down their own line and got pinged once. Lots of forward passes missed. But that's Pollock, he always allows the home team latitude wherever he is.

The Crusaders are an awesome team. The middle 40 minutes of the game was AB standard. On tonight's performance they would have beaten all the NH test sides comprehensively except maybe England and would have put 50 points on every other Aussie Super team. That said they were fully rested physically and comprehensively blew us off the park at the breakdown. I want to see our performance after the bye to see if our physical performance lifts. However its the Cheetahs in Sydney so its not that much of a test. Its a good indication of why you have to be 1 or 2 to win the comp - the week off allows good physical recuperation for the preliminary final. (I am not talking here about emotional recuperation, but about how you can put in a better performance physically after rest.)

Matt Burke needs to do way better or pack his bags. How can all three of our kickers, two of whom are very reliable and one who is mercurial but inconsistent, be so bad over the last two weeks. It looks like no one has kicked a ball in training over the summer. It hurt us big time tonight, we would have gone in to the break one point behind if we could kick straight.

Hands up all the Tah fans who wish Palmer had been treated properly so he didn't jump ship. Your hand up too is it Chris??? We absolutely need to focus on recruiting scrummaging THP's. We had the two best in Australia and we let the up-and-comer go for some obscure reason that escaped me at the time and I'm none the wiser now. Expect the Reds and Force to get murdered when they play the Saders, the Rebels are lucky they drew the long straw this year and don't have to play them. The Brumbies scrum will probably survive next week but they'll lose the breakdown comprehensively on what I saw tonight. Right now if TPN doesn't play we can't match the Crusaders and probably not the Sharks and Bulls either. My solution would be to give Kepu throwing lessons and play him at hooker, because we saw tonight that as soon as Fitzpatrick came on we went full speed in reverse. He needs another year in the gym.

It was tough out there at 10 tonight but Hangers looked totally ill-prepared. Someone posted before the game (Topo I think) that Hangers had not had enough time on the park in the last nine months. It sure looked like it. Kurtley was better but it shows how hard it is to shine behind a beaten pack.

We will beat most teams this year as we are, but we will not beat the Crusaders, Bulls, Stormers and maybe the Sharks and Blues on that form tonight. This week the coaches need to do a whole lot of thinking and then try a few things over the next four weeks - Cheetahs, Brumbies, Chiefs and Force. Cross was better tonight than previously, but that's because he was so awful last week. I think we need to try the Turner to 13 experiment for a couple of weeks as Horne appears to be crocked again. Pakalani looked good when he came on BUT HE RAN TO THE CORNER when he knew our kickers were off-song. He would have scored if he at least ran straight and then tried to promote the ball once he was over the line.

But we lost it in the forwards. The power and pack running were not there tonight, we went back to one-out stuff and our short passing game vanished to become a "desperately throw it anywhere when in contact" sort of strategy. Douglas, Mumm, and Dennis particularly were not a shadow of their former selves.

Its back to the drawing board if we want to win the comp. I think we can make third easily, but what good is that?