Where to for Super Rugby?

[Derpus]

Yep I realise the problem is depth mate and in all seriousness you don't really think it a good idea to have 2-3 teams in a TT comp , or anyone else in here would scream blue murder as it sounds an awful lot like the Aritipu report that got everyone's nickers in a twist!!!!

You are being obtuse. If we had our own comp and TT was a few games at the end of the season, then that's fine.

No one gets cut for the kiwis.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Na mate, I can't see anyone coming up with better comp than my last proposal, so don't need to look at any others.
You know deep down I right and Aus supporters would lap up everyone wins!! Hell you could even split the Tahs and have a Western Sydnet team, just need to weaken each comp to suit the standard of the teams!

You are missing something special as it is the funniest pisstake view of how a full blown TT could work!!!

 

[KOB1987]

Error and fixed as I am agreeing with current comp of 12 weeks which still not enough to develop other players not involved in other pro comp

What happens with the 135 pro players who don't make the Wallabies currently? It's not a perfect fix that I am proposing but in an 8-10 team domestic comp 70% of the players are going to be semi pro anyway, much like a lot of the fringe players currently are. It's a more viable option than inventing another 3rd tier that no one watches.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

You are being obtuse. If we had our own comp and TT was a few games at the end of the season, then that's fine.

No one gets cut for the kiwis.

And actually aiming to expand and non contract our way to greatness from long term perspective which 3 teams in (nzru) centric competition only does not give us.

 

[Dan54]

You are being obtuse. If we had our own comp and TT was a few games at the end of the season, then that's fine.

No one gets cut for the kiwis.

But what you don't realise is that if you had a comp with rep teams at end of season there no room for it. If you formed 2-3 rep teams at end of season they would need a month together to be competitive as NZ teams would fo just finished a whole comp. Regardless you are agreeing that only 2-3 teams should be in it, so perhaps you had input into Aritipu report and didn't tell us.
There is never any reason why Aus rugby can't have this comp one level down and did with NRC!

 

[Rugbynutter39]

What happens with the 135 pro players who don't make the Wallabies currently? It's not a perfect fix that I am proposing but in an 8-10 team domestic comp 70% of the players are going to be semi pro anyway, much like a lot of the fringe players currently are. It's a more viable option than inventing another 3rd tier that no one watches.

Missing the point... I agree with aim for 8-10 week domestic comp but short term can’t see how you are going to get the investment to start with that..and from risk management perspective better to start with 5 or 6 and build up to that. Your 8-10 team competition I see as 5 to 10 year plan.

 

[Dan54]

What happens with the 135 pro players who don't make the Wallabies currently? It's not a perfect fix that I am proposing but in an 8-10 team domestic comp 70% of the players are going to be semi pro anyway, much like a lot of the fringe players currently are. It's a more viable option than inventing another 3rd tier that no one watches.

Wasn't that what NRC was?? A semi pro comp for the players not in Wallabies?

 

[Dan54]

You are missing something special as it is the funniest pisstake view of how a full blown TT could work!!!

You are right too, if you think of it, would be a bloody good way to work it!! So you would have say Reds and maybe Brumbies (just throwing out names for now) would be playing in upper level and ie Cane smad: I hate saying it) and clan in second level, teams can move between the comps each year depending on standards, a lot like NZ ITM cup works now, you could still play cross level matches for derbies!!
I am a f***ing genius!. We need to work on thsi RN!!!

 

[Derpus]

But what you don't realise is that if you had a comp with rep teams at end of season there no room for it. If you formed 2-3 rep teams at end of season they would need a month together to be competitive as NZ teams would fo just finished a whole comp. Regardless you are agreeing that only 2-3 teams should be in it, so perhaps you had input into Aritipu report and didn't tell us.
There is never any reason why Aus rugby can't have this comp one level down and did with NRC!

I guess you are right. Just no time for TT. Shame.

Ah well, moving on.

 

[KOB1987]

Wasn't that what NRC was?? A semi pro comp for the players not in Wallabies?

Yes but it was at the wrong time. A proper domestic comp with teams that supporters can relate to is what's required, and in this instance the Wallabies will be playing in it. Shute Shield and QPR then become semi pro comps and the three rep teams are just that, rep teams with Wallabies selection on the line. Those 3 teams aren't going to need a month together to be competitive with the Kiwis, your comp will probably end up doing something similar anyway because a 6 team comp isn't sustainable.

 

[KOB1987]

Missing the point. I agree with aim for 8-10 week domestic comp but short term can’t see how you are going to get the investment to start with that..and from risk management perspective better to start with 5 or 6 and build up to that. Your 8-10 team competition I see as 5 to 10 year plan.

That's what I'm saying.

 

[kiap]

[three] rep teams with Wallabies selection on the line. Those 3 teams aren't going to need a month together to be competitive with the Kiwis

They aren't going to need a month, you're right.

It'd be more like 12 months.

 

[KOB1987]

They aren't going to need a month, you're right.

It'd be more like 12 months.

If you make the assumption that we're forming 3 rep teams from 8-10 teams, and are playing 5 NZ teams that are playing in a comp all season then yes ours will need a bit of time. However, if you make that first assumption then 2 things will happen - firstly NZ will need to adapt to an 8-10 team comp as well as the 5-6 team one isn't sustainable, and secondly over time you'd find that the Aus players will migrate towards the teams in their own rep states, meaning that many combinations will be pre-existing.

 

[Dan54]

but more than anything else this still leaves Aus with 3 teams in TT comp, however you look at it ,still shrinking the number. Who would be the 3 rep teams? Qld ,NSW and WA? So cut Brumbies and Rebels?

I understand your idea and is good up to point, but where the tems are coming from is problem and like it or not you still cutting teams!

 

[Rebels3]

There is no intention to reduce to 3 teams or have defacto rep sides.

Clubs are looking to upskill by playing more games (hopefully they will be able to commercial this) and also look to bring in a few calculated imports.

Everything else is almost zero chance of happening

 

[KOB1987]

There is no intention to reduce to 3 teams or have defacto rep sides.

Clubs are looking to upskill by playing more games (hopefully they will be able to commercial this) and also look to bring in a few calculated imports.

Everything else is almost zero chance of happening

I get all that, but how are they going to play more games unless they have someone to play them against?

 

[kiap]

if you make that first assumption then 2 things will happen - firstly NZ will need to adapt to an 8-10 team comp as well as the 5-6 team one isn't sustainable

The 5-6 NZ teams is sustainable - that's their prefered Aratipu number within an 8+ team comp that includes outside teams (of which they've already announced 2).

Too many NZ teams (moving much beyond 5 in the top tier) is counter-productive for the ABs, which is their major priority.

 

[Rebels3]

I get all that, but how are they going to play more games unless they have someone to play them against?

That’s what they are trying to sort out.

At the moment a few teams intend on touring until it’s sorted. GRR has raised its head again but isn’t possible in the current environment, then there is Japan or an reinvented NRC. As I said earlier clubs are almost universal in belief that players aren’t playing enough games in a professional environment (just have to watch the lack of game management and rugby nous in the first 3 rounds of TT. Some guys are making park footy mistakes against seasoned pros).

 

[KOB1987]

but more than anything else this still leaves Aus with 3 teams in TT comp, however you look at it ,still shrinking the number. Who would be the 3 rep teams? Qld ,NSW and WA? So cut Brumbies and Rebels?

I understand your idea and is good up to point, but where the tems are coming from is problem and like it or not you still cutting teams!

Rebels3 is right, it's not likely to happen. But the hypothetical concept here is that these are rep teams formed from the best players of the domestic comp. To answer your question the teams would be NSW origin, Qld origin and 'best of the rest'. No teams are being cut, the current 5 franchises still exist only that Tahs and Reds would become Sydney and Brisbane, and you'd add two more NSW teams and one more Qld team to form an 8 team comp. Or something like that.

 

[dru]

Rebels3 is right, it's not likely to happen. But the hypothetical concept here is that these are rep teams formed from the best players of the domestic comp. To answer your question the teams would be NSW origin, Qld origin and 'best of the rest'. No teams are being cut, the current 5 franchises still exist only that Tahs and Reds would become Sydney and Brisbane, and you'd add two more NSW teams and one more Qld team to form an 8 team comp. Or something like that.

I like it. Replace the third NSW team with Drua. But there would be plenty of questions.

• funding is a problem with 5 let alone 8 - in the longer term I think it works, but funding is needed to get it rolling
• NSW and Qld clubs would not be competitive against Brumbies and probably not Rebels and Force. Something would be needed to level things.
• What happens during TT for the non rep players? A revamped NRC? More money.
• Are NZ happy with an extended domestic comp of 5 teams? Unlikely.

I really like it though, KOB. would be great if we can get it up.

But, perhaps NZ and Aus club comps are simply incompatible.