Where to for Super Rugby?

[moa999]

Well done the Rebel

 

[Killer]

Hasn't every franchise needed bailing out at some time?
As we all know both the Rebels & Force were bailed out in recent years.
The Brumbies would have also needed bailing out if they didn't haveover $10M to burn through.
The Reds have also been bleeding money.
The Tahs were pretty much saved by regenerating interest when they won the comp.

That suggests to me, that to be competitive and solvent, all the planets must align.
One little thing goes wrong, and things fall apart quickly.
That just confirms the funding is insufficient.

According to Sinderberry the Tah's have been bailed out twice and the Reds once. The Force once too in 2016.
As you say the Brumbies have almost burnt through their 11mil from property sale? and haven't had a profit since 2003 according to the SMH.
I have also seen comment that the Reds are carrying a 7mil debt?
and the total Rebels losses must be huge comparatively.
It's no wonder that the WF can claim they will be the strongest club financially if they can raise the relatively small amount of 5-10mil.
It is clear that just breaking even is a tremendous achievement

 

[amirite]

A, I realise that you think everyone who is not you is a philistine. It's not true though.

If this was a comment against either the Force or the Rebels it was actually offensive. After that it depends on the intent.

But dive in brother, all yours in your infinite wisdom

Touchy. Read your comment, it seemed like you were asking what it meant.

I'd never judge somewhat that wasn't familiar with a quote from a book most people study in secondary school.

 

[Lindommer]

Their "best" ain't such a step up from what they're fielding now. That is, when the actual Japanese players can even get a start for the Sunwolves.....ahead of some ring-in foreigner who was.....unwanted by his Super Rugby team. Why the fuck are the Sunwolves even there then? It ain't for the expansion of the game aspect for Japanese players and it sure ain't for the "Asian TV money". No man-in-the-street even knows they exist. Games are only on cable TV that barely any prick even bothers with in Japan.

This. If SANZAAR/ARU are concerned about the quality of rugby by the remaining franchises surely the Sunwolves' participation must be called into question. WTF were they ever included in the first place?

Forgive me for harping on about this but I fail to see why the Sunwolves have been ring-fenced in this tragedy. For Pulver to throw one of the Oz franchises to the wolves (excuse the pun) for the sake of quality/numbers/conference setup while retaining the Sunwolves requires some explanation. There SHOULD be a higher-level comp in east Asia, but it's not our remit to set it up. There's no J in SANZAAR.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

^^^^^its a gilt edged bad joke.
Are they scared for the 2019 RWC.?
You'd generate more interest in rugby by that being held than by fielding a semi-Japanese super team in Singapore.
It's worth noting that when S15 was better it didn't have a Japanese team in it - so if we're returning to the good old days how has this historical inaccuracy survived?
ARU will say they'd not save any money if the Sunwolves went.

 

[sidelineview]

Unfortunately BLR, having objective criteria doesn't seem to fit with the ARU way of doing things.

I'd have thought that seeing they have said that they have been "looking for an excuse" to drop from 5 teams to 4 for some time, that they would have a set of objective criteria ready to go. It seems that this would be too much to expect from the great strategic thinkers on the ARU board.

EDIT: For example
1. Cash reserves
2. Sponsorship
3. Debt
4. On field results
5. Elite development structure
6. Number of clubs/juniors/schools playing in season long competitions

Weight them how you like, but at least have some measurable data on which to make decisions. But if we've learnt anything, it's that the ARU aren't big fans of measurable data when making decisions.

Reminiscent of the Super League war.

I remember during the RL Super League war, the powers-to-be held up criteria that the clubs had to meet in order to ''make the cut'' and be included in the comp.

It was largely a load of crap. While attendance to games was listed as a priority, subscribers to Foxtel for those who couldn't attend games due to geographical reasons were ignored.

News Corp and co basically did what they wanted to do in following their overall strategy for the future of "their" game.

They risked the threat of legal action and the rest is history.
It ended up costing Uncle Rupert a lot of lost revenue through people unsubscribing to Foxtel in protest, and an estimated $500 mill +.

You can buy a lot of copies of the Telecrap for that.

 

[sidelineview]

As a matter of curiousity, does anyone know the cost of running a Super Rugby team on a weekly or annual basis?

This would include player and Club personnel payments, administration costs and travel expenses.

I realise it would vary from Club to Club but does anyone have a ballpark figure?

 

[Rugbynutter39]

This. If SANZAAR/ARU are concerned about the quality of rugby by the remaining franchises surely the Sunwolves participation must be called into question. WTF were they ever included in the first place?

Forgive me for harping on about this but I fail to see why the Sunwolves have been ring-fenced in this tragedy. For Pulver to throw one of the Oz franchises to the wolves for the sake of quality/numbers/conference setup while retaining the Sunwolves requires some explanation. There SHOULD be a higher-level comp in east Asia, but it's not our remit to set it up. There's no J in SANZAAR.

With sunwolves joining oz conference they need to address making sunwolves more competitive as watching oz sides thrash sunwolves would be just the same problem of watching kiwi teams thrash oz sides. Fans want a more evenly balanced and competitive competition and why that is not hard for sanzaar to understand worries me. If you want to compete against European domestic competitions and stop the exodus of players to those competitions you have to create similar competitive dynamic those competitions create and remove the constraints. I am quite angry that sanzaar partners and designers of super rugby are failing to acknowledge this and address this seriously.



Sent from my EVA-L09 using Tapatalk

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Not deemed good enough for any Aussie franchise. But, for every Ala'alatoa there is a Volavola.
hole back 3. They have a crack and are a lot of fun to watch.

It's an Animal Farm quote - I think he basically means things are unfairly stacked for the Rebels despite this being pitched as a fair process. Clever.

Volvola has played tests - one of which I saw in the flesh. I thought the Wobblies would eat him alive but he was fine at that level.
I think he proves the opposite to what you had hoped: his failure to thrive with tahs shouldn't be held against him: few players do.

 

[Brumby Runner]

^^^^^its a gilt edged bad joke.
Are they scared for the 2019 RWC.?
You'd generate more interest in rugby by that being held than by fielding a semi-Japanese super team in Singapore.
It's worth noting that when S15 was better it didn't have a Japanese team in it - so if we're returning to the good old days how has this historical inaccuracy survived?
ARU will say they'd not save any money if the Sunwolves went.

I am also amazed by the situation that protects the Sunwolves while jettisoning one of the Aus and two of the SA sides. On the financial side though, while I expect the gates to be smaller for home games against the SWs, the SWs' home games will probably be good money spinners. In that case, does anyone know if the Aus sides would get a cut of the Japan home games gates, or is it retained entirely by the home side? Then, there is still the cost of travel to Japan to be factored in.

 

[gel]

This thread is some kind of internet singularity - it's accretion disc ever robbing other threads of much needed attention at a rate that's now almost impossible to keep track of

Specially the match threads.


Still kudos for all avoiding Godwin's law.

 

[mst]

Interesting piece of information to consider from last night:

Africa 1 (Strormers W6-L0) V Africa 2 (Lions W5-L1) conference leaders played last night (AKA the top 2 teams in SA atm) in front of.........

........reports are just over 5000 crowd!

 

[blues recovery]

As a matter of curiousity, does anyone know the cost of running a Super Rugby team on a weekly or annual basis?

This would include player and Club personnel payments, administration costs and travel expenses.



I realise it would vary from Club to Club but does anyone have a ballpark figure?

Somewhere in the vicinity of 12 to 14 million

 

[amirite]

...reports are just over 5000 crowd!

Oh wow. Any other factors? Easter? Weather? Etc.

Edit: Watching the highlights now. You sure? The bottom tier of the sides are full and the ends aren't empty either. Some long shots show people in the top tiers too. Even if I was pessimistic it looks like 15k.

 

[zer0]

This thread is some kind of internet singularity - it's accretion disc ever robbing other threads of much needed attention at a rate that's now almost impossible to keep track of

Specially the match threads.


Still kudos for all avoiding Godwin's law.

Look at this thread Nazi here. Critiquing the 'where to for super rugby' ubermensch thread for claiming its rightful, much needed, bandwidth lebensraum at the expense of the match thread untermensch.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

Interesting piece of information to consider from last night:

Africa 1 (Strormers W6-L0) V Africa 2 (Lions W5-L1) conference leaders played last night (AKA the top 2 teams in SA atm) in front of...

....reports are just over 5000 crowd!

yep, tuning in to see bright sunny awfternoon kickoffs to be played out before zero-fucks-given cavernous empty stadii really makes me wonder how much the goddamn tickets cost. They should be giving the fucken things away to kids in the street. Huge, silent, virtually completely empty stadiums and some microscopic players having a bit of an afternoon run-around somewhere out there not a cool look for broadcasting $$

 

[amirite]

yep, tuning in to see bright sunny awfternoon kickoffs to be played out before zero-fucks-given cavernous empty stadii really makes me wonder how much the goddamn tickets cost. They should be giving the fucken things away to kids in the street. Huge, silent, virtually completely empty stadiums and some microscopic players having a bit of an afternoon run-around somewhere out there not a cool look for broadcasting $$

This article says nearly 30k people were at the game and the footage seems to confirm that - http://www.supersport.com/rugby/super-rugby/news/170415/Motivated_Lions_shut_out_Stormers

 

[sidelineview]

Somewhere in the vicinity of 12 to 14 million

And from reading various posts i gather that not all teams receive the same amount of funding from the ARU ??

 

[NTT]

Im not sure how Mr Cox comes to the assertion that he was sold a dud product. Being a multi million dollar investment, surely Mr Cox would have done his due diligence before purchase. You know, check the books and financial history of what he is investing into. Surely the previous owner being on public record as losing $8 million was a pretty big red flag? The ARU only said it was financially unstainable for the ARU to operate 5 teams. Buyer beware and all that.

With the ARU stating they cannot financially sustain 5 teams but can do so with 4 and with the Rebels off the ARU books, does that not mean the ARU can financially sustain Reds, NSW, Brumbies and Force? That is 4 teams.

 

[blues recovery]

And from reading various posts i gather that not all teams receive the same amount of funding from the ARU ??

The basic distribution is exactly the same these days .
Other payments are based on Contract deals such as Rebels sale and Force bail out .