Where to for Super Rugby?

[BLR]

Also if the Force don't appear next year, I think it will be disrespectful to Force fans to stop going.

I'd be insulted as a Force fan if the Rebels fans that went before stopped going. We're playing for two teams now.

This is strange reasoning....

We don't want you playing for us, we want our own team....

Personally I would prefer no one to go to any game so the ARU go broke.

Anything else besides the ARU going under and the Force being re-instated is disrespectful IMO.

 

[TOCC]

Anything else besides the ARU going under and the Force being re-instated is disrespectful IMO.

Mate I truly understand your frustration, and want the ARU board to be cleaned out and started from scratch, but I don't want them to go bankrupt. I still love the game of rugby union, and have a few friends who work in Australian rugby as players and off-field staff. ARU goes bankrupt and they all lose their jobs.

Ultimately, i would much prefer the Force be reinstated without anyone else having to lose their jobs(besides the ARU aboard).

 

[Brumby Runner]

He's an ARU employee. You have to accept that he had to show a reasonable amount of constraint commenting on the issue as did every ARU employee.

Didn't necessarily stop the Force players speaking out, and as you reminded me above, they are ARU employees. This whole process was so wrong from the beginning that I think it would have been to the betterment of rugby in the country had a few more of the influential people spoken out about it.

 

[Braveheart81]

Personally I would prefer no one to go to any game so the ARU go broke.

I just don't see how this outcome would be good for anyone.

Sure the board would all go and all the ARU staff would lose their jobs but I think the wider reaching aspects of it would be disastrous for the game in this country.

We'd all be waiting a very long time before we had any sort of professional competition to watch involving any of our teams.

It wouldn't just be a reorganisation and resuming as normal a year or two later.

 

[Braveheart81]

Didn't necessarily stop the Force players speaking out, and as you reminded me above, they are ARU employees. This whole process was so wrong from the beginning that I think it would have been to the betterment of rugby in the country had a few more of the influential people spoken out about it.

I don't believe their situation changed though from the position of being governed by the CBA between RUPA and the ARU in terms of their conduct and their existing individual contracts.

The ARU merely continued paying their contracts. They weren't recontracted to the ARU.

The permanent staff at the Force became ARU employees which is the reason people like Mark Sinderberry were largely silent through this process.

 

[BLR]

It wouldn't just be a reorganisation and resuming as normal a year or two later.

Why wouldn't it be? Would an A League/FFA complete re-structure not be best for Australian rugby?

Completely blank slate with a restructure looking at taking all the poison that has been harming Australian rugby for years could be the only thing that will save the sport in Australia.

Business as usual obviously isn't working as a team has just been cut.

Even if the Force are reinstated the underlying issue still exists in the sport.

 

[Braveheart81]

Why wouldn't it be? Would an A League/FFA complete re-structure not be best for Australian rugby?

Completely blank slate with a restructure looking at taking all the poison that has been harming Australian rugby for years could be the only thing that will save the sport in Australia.

Business as usual obviously isn't working as a team has just been cut.

Even if the Force are reinstated the underlying issue still exists in the sport.

I think they're very different propositions. Domestic soccer is working with a very large fanbase that has never been engaged in the local game and only needing to get a modest amount of them interested to make it somewhat viable. Even then it has taken a lot of private investment who have collectively lost well over $100m trying to get it up and running. Do we have that same level of potential investment in rugby?

 

[ACT Crusader]

To be honest Super Rugby was dogshit the moment they introduced conferences into the equation. Before then it was still decent.

Ulrich, some have said that it started to go pear shape when it went from 12 to 14 teams.......

 

[BLR]

Do we have that same level of potential investment in rugby?

Well there was......

 

[Killer]

Ulrich, some have said that it started to go pear shape when it went from 12 to 14 teams...

Hi ACTC, a quick Q, due to this issue being of great public interest with even Premiers speaking out, make it more likely that the court will allow an appeal to be heard simply for transparency due to the open court?
Assuming of course the Force legal team can raise some doubt re the original decision.

 

[TOCC]

Why wouldn't it be? Would an A League/FFA complete re-structure not be best for Australian rugby?

Completely blank slate with a restructure looking at taking all the poison that has been harming Australian rugby for years could be the only thing that will save the sport in Australia.

Business as usual obviously isn't working as a team has just been cut.

Even if the Force are reinstated the underlying issue still exists in the sport.

I don't think you can really hold Australian Rugby next to Australian Football and say, what worked for them would work for us. The value In Australian Football is the sheer size of the fan base, it dwarfs rugby. The value in Australia rugby is in the players and the quality of the output, which is currently declining.

If the ARU fold, then there's a whole generation of players lost to the code because they jump ship to rival codes. It already happens, and if the ARU folded then the issue would be exacerbated further. Ulitiamtely the value in Australian rugby is lost, without the players, professeionalism is worth nothing, you can't sell broadcast rights of something where the players are sub-par and the fan base is minuscule. FFA were able to sell broadcast rugby because their fan base is huge, Australian rugby doesn't have that luxury.

More innoncent people losing their jobs isn't the solution in this case.

 

[half]

Why wouldn't it be? Would an A League/FFA complete re-structure not be best for Australian rugby?

Completely blank slate with a restructure looking at taking all the poison that has been harming Australian rugby for years could be the only thing that will save the sport in Australia.

Business as usual obviously isn't working as a team has just been cut.

Even if the Force are reinstated the underlying issue still exists in the sport.

I think they're very different propositions. Domestic soccer is working with a very large fanbase that has never been engaged in the local game and only needing to get a modest amount of them interested to make it somewhat viable. Even then it has taken a lot of private investment who have collectively lost well over $100m trying to get it up and running. Do we have that same level of potential investment in rugby?

I would add to BH's comment two things first soccer had SBS behind them and they lobbied Canberra for a helping hand and got one. Second they had Frank Lowy who at the time enjoyed near total support from the soccer community and he became a dictator he just went in and went bang .

I seriously doubt there is anybody in rugby that enjoys the support Lowy had when he took over and whether the various parts of rugby would allow anyone the power Lowy had.

As an aside today the soccer community bis fighting hard to get the power away from the Lowy family so absolute power to anyone never lasts.

So while I agree we need a total restructure it should come from within. I hope we have the sense to develop it or at least have plans in place if super rugby continues to decline. God knows I have never liked the super rugby model but tearing everything down before we have systems ready to go would be madness IMO and we may never recover from it.

 

[BLR]

So while I agree we need a total restructure it should come from within. I hope we have the sense to develop it or at least have plans in place if super rugby continues to decline. God knows I have never liked the super rugby model but tearing everything down before we have systems ready to go would be madness IMO and we may never recover from it.

That's the problem in my opinion.

There is the example of NZ in regards to the success of centralisation (that they trialed with the Force but used it to cut us) the example of AFL in regards to winning the hearts and minds (through long term juniors engagement such as Auskick and support of expansion teams) but what have the ARU actually done?

At the moment we stand at the point where we have a cut team (actually, considering the Spirit are out, a whole state) which had strong financials and high potential in the player base, two heartland teams which has seen poor results and poor crowds, a team in a town with small population which has recently run down a large amount of funds in had in the bank and is being investigated by the federal police as well as a side which has never been in the black and is now owned by an organisation that has no money. It is looking pretty bloody shitty going forward.

At what point does ARU make some changes that will actually make a different. They supposedly got an extra $30 million or so from the Sunwolves entry, where did that money go? Why did they move into a $20 million office when they are claiming they are broke? Why, when knowing they couldn't sustain the 5th team, they applied for a 5th team in Melbourne?

A plan needs to be in place, but it sure as hell isn't coming from the ARU.

 

[Braveheart81]

Well there was..

The ARU should have tried to reverse their plan with SANZAAR to cut a team and tried to get Forrest to invest in the Force and the game generally, but where was the money prior to that moment.

If he (or any rugby-minded billionaire) really wanted to support the game in Australia they could have ploughed money into a team a long while ago. Whilst the team's are bound by a salary cap that doesn't exist for marquee players and doesn't affect the non-player side of things.

Clearly Forrest was willing to sponsor the Force but he also clearly never went above and beyond in terms of his investment in the side.

 

[Shiggins]

Maybe us force fans can just call the rebels the force now. Won't most our players go there ? There wouldn't be many rebels players left. Maybe 5

Sent from my SM-G928I using Tapatalk

 

[Highlander35]

Maybe us force fans can just call the rebels the force now. Won't most our players go there ? There wouldn't be many rebels players left. Maybe 5

Sent from my SM-G928I using Tapatalk

Depends what you mean by most.

 

[BLR]

The ARU should have tried to reverse their plan with SANZAAR to cut a team and tried to get Forrest to invest in the Force and the game generally, but where was the money prior to that moment.

If he (or any rugby-minded billionaire) really wanted to support the game in Australia they could have ploughed money into a team a long while ago. Whilst the team's are bound by a salary cap that doesn't exist for marquee players and doesn't affect the non-player side of things.

Clearly Forrest was willing to sponsor the Force but he also clearly never went above and beyond in terms of his investment in the side.

I have heard this argument a lot but you can get the answer why directly from his mouth.

Like it or not Twiggy seems to believe the change needs to come primarily from the community not a rich benefactor like what has failed time and time again at the Rebels. This is for sustainability purposes most of all. Why prop up a team for the sake of having a play thing, and it WAS working.

I think perhaps he was naive & so was most of us in WA. I mean, just the idea one party can change the underlying basis of a contract without the other parties go ahead, to void that contract just sounds ludicrous and hopefully the Supreme Court agrees. I mean, if I renovate my house or modify my car can I get out of paying those contracts?

Whatever the argument is, Twiggy called Clyne and said he would account for any debts the Force incur, essentially an open cheque book. What more could you want as a governing board strapped for cash? Saying it was too late in the piece is ludicrous.

 

[Killer]

Didn't necessarily stop the Force players speaking out, and as you reminded me above, they are ARU employees. This whole process was so wrong from the beginning that I think it would have been to the betterment of rugby in the country had a few more of the influential people spoken out about it.

Chek only thinks about what's good for Chek, and woe betide anyone who tries to take his perceived credit, whether accidentally or not.
The players are not stupid, as a result Chek, over the long term, will always underachieve in a high pressure team environment.

 

[Shiggins]

Depends what you mean by most.

It won't help. We still won't be able to watch live rugby. The rebels is the worst name as well.

What do the rebels do with their current squad ? All these international players that they don't need anymore.

Sent from my SM-G928I using Tapatalk

 

[Shiggins]

I have heard this argument a lot but you can get the answer why directly from his mouth.

Like it or not Twiggy seems to believe the change needs to come primarily from the community not a rich benefactor like what has failed time and time again at the Rebels. This is for sustainability purposes most of all. Why prop up a team for the sake of having a play thing, and it WAS working.

I think perhaps he was naive & so was most of us in WA. I mean, just the idea one party can change the underlying basis of a contract without the other parties go ahead, to void that contract just sounds ludicrous and hopefully the Supreme Court agrees. I mean, if I renovate my house or modify my car can I get out of paying those contracts?

Whatever the argument is, Twiggy called Clyne and said he would account for any debts the Force incur, essentially an open cheque book. What more could you want as a governing board strapped for cash? Saying it was too late in the piece is ludicrous.

If twiggy came to me and said he would pay my mortgage but I only had a week left to pay it is would tell him sorry mate you're too late

Sent from my SM-G928I using Tapatalk