Where to for Super Rugby?

[dru]

Not sure if this has been covered but according to PlanetRugby both the Sharks and the Lions have written to the SARU expressing their desire to head north. Clearly, continuing the engagement and competition with NZ isn't as important or as much of a priority for them as it is for NZ.

When this happens and they are joined by the Stormers and Bulls in quick succession the dumping of the Force on our end and the utter refusal to even consider an Asia-Pacific/TT competition on behalf of NZ will come back to bite them on the arse big time.

I'm actually amazed that the Lions didn't go now. Tactically smart move and they were keen. There were rumours for ages that 3 Franchises were keen.

 

[PaarlBok]

Watched last night match between Ulster & Cheetahs. Cant wait to see the other franchises joining. SuperSport jump the ship and it is the right thing for SA rugby. We can have our normal CC and play up north.

Sure its only a matter of time.

 

[Jagman]

People forget that one of the major advantages of the sanzar alliance is that they back each other up in works rugby issues. The biggest thing of course is that they support each other to bid for world cups in turn. Breaking up super rugby and sanzar has far reaching consequences. SA are in line for the next southern hemisphere RWC. They will want to stick with sanzar at least until Aus and NZ have voted for them.

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[Quick Hands]

People forget that one of the major advantages of the sanzar alliance is that they back each other up in works rugby issues. The biggest thing of course is that they support each other to bid for world cups in turn. Breaking up super rugby and sanzar has far reaching consequences. SA are in line for the next southern hemisphere RWC. They will want to stick with sanzar at least until Aus and NZ have voted for them.

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What, you mean like Aust voting for Japan ahead of NZ for RWC 2011?

 

[PaarlBok]

People forget that one of the major advantages of the sanzar alliance is that they back each other up in works rugby issues. The biggest thing of course is that they support each other to bid for world cups in turn. Breaking up super rugby and sanzar has far reaching consequences. SA are in line for the next southern hemisphere RWC. They will want to stick with sanzar at least until Aus and NZ have voted for them.

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It did not happen in the past.

According to Saru they still prefer Sanzar.

South Africa committed to SANZAAR - Roux

2017-09-01 10:02​

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Jurie Roux (Gallo Images)​

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Cape Town - South African Rugby Union chief executiveJurie Roux has re-stated his country's commitment to staying in SANZAAR.
While the Cheetahs and Southern Kings are set to play their first games in the PRO14 competition at the weekend, it is not a sign that South Africa is looking exclusively to a future in Europe.
Roux told the Guardian that leaving SANZAAR was not something South Africa was looking at.
While the existing SANZAAR deal runs until 2020, South Africa is due to host the British and Irish Lions in 2021, a series that would have no future if South Africa turned its future towards Europe.
"This is a very exciting time for South Africa rugby," said Roux.
The connection with the PRO14 gave South Africa options, something it didn't have by a rigid connection with SANZAAR.
"We don't have options in SANZAAR, which means you're actually nowhere and that's not where you want to be," added Roux.
"But we are really good for each other, so we will still participate; we are strong because we play against Australia and New Zealand.
"We can never have eight franchises in SANZAAR, we can have four or five maximum and maybe we'll even go down to three.
"But at least now we have options.
"We still need to play against Australia and New Zealand to be the best, so I don't see the relationship ending but we'll have more exposure up north."
It was possible that more South African teams could be involved in the PRO14 but that wouldn't be discussed until the Cheetahs and Kings had assessed their involvement in that competition.
The Cheetahs play Ulster on Friday in Belfast while the Scarlets host the Kings in Llanelli on Saturday

 

[half]

Need some guidance as this is my limited understanding of the position. Please correct any errors.

SANZAR is a separate legal entity in its own right.

SANZAR is owned by the Unions of South Africa, New Zealand, Australia and Argentina.

SANZAR have from what I have read broadcast contracts with 16 different broadcasters.

SANZAR, created the Super 18 competition and offered the following places, SA 6, NZ, 6, Aust , Japan 1 & Argentina 1 place.

Rating for the Super 18, fell in Europe & South Africa, leading to “””guess work by half””” a meeting between Broadcasters and SANZAR. The result of which led SANZAR to the conclusion it only needed 15 teams.

The SANZAR owns were called together, and a decision was made to cut two South African and one Australian tea.

SANZAR will now invite the ARU to nominate four teams to play in SANZAR’s new 15 team competition.

The ARU have five teams, but only four will be invited to take part in the new SANZAR competition.

The ARU have decided to invite four teams, leaving the Western Force not playing in the SANZAR ne Super 15 competition.

If the ARU leave the WF as a registered entity, and include them in the general carve up of Super revenue received from SANZAR. Where or who can WF or WA Rugby sue.


They have no direct contract with SANZAR and if still part of the ARU’s Super Rugby and sharing in income, I wonder aloud who they can sue.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I'm actually amazed that the Lions didn't go now. Tactically smart move and they were keen. There were rumours for ages that 3 Franchises were keen.

Not surprising as northern hemisphere financial powerhouse and game going gangbusters compared to struggling super rugby...


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[Warpath]

Lions is the only legitimate good south african team left so if they go to Pro14, their national side will no longer be as strong, they need their best team competing in a competition where they play against players from World Number 1 and 4 on a daily basis

 

[cyclopath]

Lions is the only legitimate good south african team left so if they go to Pro14, their national side will no longer be as strong, they need their best team competing in a competition where they play against players from World Number 1 and 4 on a daily basis

NZ and Ireland? If you mean us, we're 5th. They're probably as well off playing against English and Irish players as anyone else. Not that I think Test rankings have much relevance in provincial games.

 

[Warpath]

well the class in Super rugby is (was?) much higher than in European rugby, it has been diluted of late with the inclusion of those extra south african teams, that japanese and Argentinian team too but NZ teams still ooze off class, heck I'm sure if the worst NZ super rugby team played in Pro14, like the Blues, they'd probably finish in the top 2

 

[BLR]

well the class in Super rugby is (was?) much higher than in European rugby, it has been diluted of late with the inclusion of those extra south african teams, that japanese and Argentinian team too but NZ teams still ooze off class, heck I'm sure if the worst NZ super rugby team played in Pro14, like the Blues, they'd probably finish in the top 2

They got greedy, it would have been reasonably easy(in comparison) to get Super 14 up to the same quality as Super 12. All it needed was the ARU & SARU to offer a bit of support to build the quality in the expansion sides.

Instead they rushed to 15 then 18 without raising the quality to the same standards as the original comp.

 

[Highlander35]

If the South Africans are willing to jump ship it's not because the likes of Edinburgh, the Dragons and the Italians can provide the same level of opposition as the Kiwis, it's because the Scarlets, Ospreys, Glasgow and the Big Irish 3 can provide the same level of competitiveness as Australian and the other South African sides, and with the (potential) increase in revenue, they'd be then hopefully be able to retain the 0 and 8-25 cap players who head overseas to play for the €.

There's no doubt that the Kiwi Provincials are some of the absolute best "Domestic"/Regional teams in the World, but with the overall decline in Super Rugby overall, alongside SARU's deliberately reducing the number of times their teams play them with each broadcast deal (5 games per year in Home or Away to 4 games per year in the 3 conference to 5 games every 2 years in the 4 conference), I don't see them specifically as being the thing which keeps them in SANZAAR/The Soup

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[Jagman]

What, you mean like Aust voting for Japan ahead of NZ for RWC 2011?

Those votes would have been a long time ago. Pretty sure I've heard pulver say sanzar vote together and SA are next up.

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[Jagman]

They got greedy, it would have been reasonably easy(in comparison) to get Super 14 up to the same quality as Super 12. All it needed was the ARU & SARU to offer a bit of support to build the quality in the expansion sides.

Instead they rushed to 15 then 18 without raising the quality to the same standards as the original comp.

Actually this is not true. In 2010 even with the Force coming second last the Aussie teams averaged more comp points, more wins and higher rankings than SA or NZ teams by average. The Tahs, Reds and Brumbies came 3rd, 5th and 6th. The Force also had a shocking injury list that year.

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[BLR]

Actually this is not true. In 2010 even with the Force coming second last the Aussie teams averaged more comp points, more wins and higher rankings than SA or NZ teams by average. The Tahs, Reds and Brumbies came 3rd, 5th and 6th. The Force also had a shocking injury list that year.

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Personally I think that expansion should only take place if all teams could realistically challenge for the title. Super 12 your would say that all Australian teams could have done that. Super 14, no, the Force still needed building.

I get what you mean but average isn't good enough, there was very little instance of 'whipping boys' in Super 12 over the long term because it was such an even comp. Super 14, not so much.

 

[waiopehu oldboy]

Kings & Cheetahs not off to a good start in Pro14:

Scarlets 57-10 Kings
Ulster 42-19 Cheetahs

 

[dru]

Kings & Cheetahs not off to a good start in Pro14:

Scarlets 57-10 Kings
Ulster 42-19 Cheetahs

 

[Warpath]

I had an idea of a "B" Division for teams, we go back to Super15, the B Diviison will have 1 team from Japan, Argentina, Fiji, Samoa, USA, Canada and Tonga and the winner of that tournaments (points based, no semis or finals) will move to Super rugby the following season and the team that finished bottom in Super rugby that year gets demoted to the B Division..this will raise standards cause no team would want to finish last anymore

 

[Brumby Runner]

Kings & Cheetahs not off to a good start in Pro14:

Scarlets 57-10 Kings
Ulster 42-19 Cheetahs

Any reports on Christian Lealiifano's form for Ulster?

 

[tragic]

Another option would be for the 5th team to play each of the other Australian teams in their bye week a bit like the setup with downlands in the QLD schools gps rugby.
And it could be used to help determine the promotion/relegation decisions.
Not ideal but at least it would generate some revenue and keep the 5th team in the mix if there was a 2nd tier.