Wallabies Tri Nations

[Gnostic]

Horan was the best 12 Oz has ever produced. He was nuggety but from memory he weighed in at about 92Kg at hi best. He did motor over people or do crash ball. He beat defenders inside and out with a step and blistering pace of the mark. His defence was never the huge hit style but based around the surety of a completed effective tackle. Ditto Jason Little, and come to think of it Michael Lynagh and Brett Papworth. I don't see size as a huge advantage at 12. I would much rather somebody who can attack the line AND find support players once he makes a break or half break. Size is over rated as a factor for breaking or even making the gain line. If size was all that mattered backs like Nadolo, Carter, Sidey et al would be shoe ins for the Wallabies.

I thought Giteau was the best option as he was by far the best 12 in Oz since Horan but the extended experiment with him at 10 seemes to have ruined his instinctive play at 12. I would go for Barnes now for the same reasons I have stated. Fainga'a will be an excellent 12 but he does have to improve his defensive technique. What is the use of going in for the massive hit if you knock yourself senseless (by having the head in the wrong position) and are stumbling about for the next five minutes as in the Bulls game, just needs a quiet word in his ear about effective tackles and completion as opposed to the massive hit.

 

[Gnostic]

My last post on the size issue - would anybody anywhere dispute that the hardest tackler in the backs was Brian Lima?

97Kg.

 

[Ruggo]

In regards to the weight argument, you have to consider center of gravity. Fainga'a is quite short and has a low center of gravity. AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) can be put in the same class.

I would not be fooled into judging a player by his weight.

 

[Moses]

I would love to see actual stats of players actual speed and weight and see who the biggest hitters actually are. Palu would have to be close to the top althought the energy produced if Matt Dunning fell over would be fairly big

Piers Spies would have to top that list...

 

[Brumbies Guy]

I would love to see actual stats of players actual speed and weight and see who the biggest hitters actually are. Palu would have to be close to the top althought the energy produced if Matt Dunning fell over would be fairly big

Would these be accurate statistics to reflect the impact of an actual hit though? You do not just run into someone to tackle them.. Technique would also have to come into play to incorporate the force generated the moments before the impact (readjusting positioning, bodyheight,exploding from the legs), and then also the leg drive during the follow-through after the initial hit has been made. Having someone like TPN, for example, running at you at the same time will also take from these figures compared to an actual reflection. Similar as they do with boxers psi

 

[en_force_er]

One should also take into account rugby isn't about running a set straight line and their are lots of variables that would mean the ball runner would have to change direction. Wouldn't a smaller fellow be able to keep the momentum more easily when he changes direction? This is something any good inside center must do.

Anyway, Fainga'a is being selected is probably as much, if not more, about his defense than his attack. Defense is more about aggression and ability then size to me.

 

[tranquility]

Gnostic, I would argue that Anthony Finger has the best tackling technique of any back in Oz rugby. Every player get their head in the wrong place occasionally. It just shows that he is made of the right stuff, that in the phase of play when he didn't know left from right he still got up stood in the line and made another tackle. He then played out the whole game. Big thumbs up.

 

[DPK]

Gnostic, I would argue that Anthony Finger has the best tackling technique of any back in Oz rugby. Every player get their head in the wrong place occasionally. It just shows that he is made of the right stuff, that in the phase of play when he didn't know left from right he still got up stood in the line and made another tackle. He then played out the whole game. Big thumbs up.

Yep, thats what has impressed me this season. Yeah, he runs very straight in attack but in defense he is very good.

Oh and getting your head in the wrong place? No worries, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) has it covered. (Not that theres anything wrong with it at the moment, he seems willing to snap himself if it means snapping someone else, but down the track...)

 

[JJJ]

Mumm is average at 6, he is a Uni mobile workrate lock, a bit small and not a true world class lock.

Has he played at 6 under the new tackle interpretations?

 

[Scotty]

And the fact is that there is only two Wallaby backs that I believe are up to really driving into and through the line at international level (or at least that are proven at it), and they are Ioane and Ashley Cooper. Leads me to believe that playing both of these guys on the wing is a waste. Ioane is good as blindside winger, with a roving commission. Ashley Cooper should be in a position to bend the line - that would be either in the centres or coming from depth at fullback. Whichever position the coaches choose, they should stick him there and keep with it.

 

[#1 Tah]

Interesting, but if you were taking on Quade Cooper surely you would react differently to if you were taking on TPN or Palu

 

[daz]

Horan was the best player Oz has ever produced.

Fixed. Please excuse my man-love. As you were.....

 

[Spewn]

Good to see the Wallabies training at Sydney Grammar's field, home to a vast array of former players.

 

[Brumbies Guy]

And daz - to put this discussion in layman's terms. Let's say Ant Fanger goes from 90kgs to 100kgs. But his running speed drops 10%. Is he better off, or the same, or worse?

We always want backs to bulk up - but how much speed can they afford to lose? Of course a lot depends on running height and other skills, but weight and speed are measurable, and it would be really interesting to compare the speed of these guys before and after the gym.

We really don't! Not always any way. It's such a common misconceived ideal that players should get bigger and bigger but it can ruin a player such as much as it can benefit them. Too much bulk, even staggered over time, can effect so many attributes... speed/acceleration like you said especially, flexibility, agility, reactions, balls skills... even mentally ("I'm 10kg heavier, I can brush my way through this gap" - when the lighter self would've bust his ass through to compansate)

BTW, new thread?

 

[Reddy!]

Gnostic, I would argue that Anthony Finger has the best tackling technique of any back in Oz rugby. Every player get their head in the wrong place occasionally. It just shows that he is made of the right stuff, that in the phase of play when he didn't know left from right he still got up stood in the line and made another tackle. He then played out the whole game. Big thumbs up.

If it was Barnes - another player herald as the best tackler going around - he would have laid on the ground for 5minutes sooking until the cows came home.

 

[RugbyReg]

I read in the paper today that Pat McCabe has been training with the Wallabies too. Anyone have any further confirmation of that?

 

[en_force_er]

I read in the paper today that Pat McCabe has been training with the Wallabies too. Anyone have any further confirmation of that?

If I was Pat I'd be hoping for a Spring tour spot to prove my worth a year our from the WC.

 

[fatprop]

THE pressure is on for the five contestants in rugby's version of The Contender which is being played out at Wallabies training this week.

Outside backs Cameron Shepherd, Drew Mitchell, Lachie Turner, Nick Cummins and Pat McCabe are the hopefuls vying to fill one of the two remaining spots in Australia's Tri Nations squad.

And they were doing their best to impress head judge and Wallabies coach Robbie Deans during training at Rushcutters Bay yesterday.

"I think it's good, a little bit of healthy competition never hurt anyone," Shepherd said. "To be honest, I'm happy to be back in the mix ... just to be considered as part of this group is a good feeling for me. I've just got to train hard and whatever happens happens. But it's not really going to stop my momentum trying to get back to where I want to be."



The backline ace was running hot until his Wallaby career stalled when he broke his leg playing his last Test against France in 2008. That was the start of a dreadful run of injuries for the 26-year-old.

Shepherd has emerged from that tough period- which included four operations - feeling the best he has for two years. "In the first year after my broken leg I looked back and had a bit of a 'why me' attitude," he said.

"But I'm not going to do that anymore, it's about moving forward," Shepherd said.

"I'm excited about the opportunities that the rest of the year might provide. I just want to see what I can do in the next few years and hopefully make an impact on world rugby again."

And Shepherd is a player who could add some of the genuine size the current Wallabies backline is missing.

"I feel great at training. I feel strong. There are no excuses anymore," he said.

Mitchell has been brought back into the competition after being eliminated last week, when he was dropped from the Wallabies squad.

"It's certainly not the best phone call I've received, but I guess it's what you make of it in the end," the Waratahs flyer said.

"Once you are there and you are playing and are involved in the squad for a period of time, it's never good being on the outside. Of course I want to fight to get back in there. It's something I've cherished every time I've had the opportunity."

Deans told Mitchell which areas he needs to be working on and which he will continue to address.

"Obviously there is the potential for someone to get a spot at the back end of the week," Mitchell said.

"First and foremost, all of us are mates. But we all want to get into the squad so there is always going to be that competitive edge at training.

"There always is anyway, but I guess it is just highlighted a little bit more."

Mitchell has done everything he can to win over the judges with a sensational individual try for Randwick against Sydney University and a four-try haul in the Wicks' win over Penrith last Saturday.

 

[tranquility]

Yeah I saw that and wasn't sure if it was a misprint. But in the article Drew mitchell alludes to "four of them" going for the wing spot - so that would include McCabe. Very good news in my opinion.

 

[fatprop]

A fit Shepherd is the obvious choice, that guy has the ability to be do everything well

My preference would be

Blindside Winger - Digby, Cummins, McCabe
Openside Winger - Shepherd, Turner, Mitchell

So a backline of

15 AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper)
14 Shepherd
13 Horne
12 Barnes
11 Digby
10 Cooper
9 Genia

for me