Australia Vs. England, Twickenham, 2nd November 2013

[RugbyReg]

I know this is the wrong thread, but does anyone know the Wallabies 'Team of the Century'? I've been looking online and can't seem to find it.

Have they done one? They did a team if the decade a little while ago. The reds have done a team of the century.


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[Brumby Runner]

Which of our runners did get over the gain line effectively? I think the general play in that regard was pretty average. Many forwards with static starts getting smashed.

Hooper.

 

[Brumby Runner]

I'm not sure if you mean by this comment that this is what "forced George out" but I would be really happy to see much more rotation in our test team. The Kiwis do it quietly and without fanfare. Why was Eaton given a start this championship? Why have they been rotating the three hookers for the whole tournament? Why do key players get sabbaticals over there and nowhere else? Because they understand better than any other team that there is too much football at Super and test level and so they deliberately monitor and rest their players especially their older ones. (Note that they are playing less tests per year than we are!) We just play our best till they break and hope the reserve will be able to step in. There is a reason that half our back five stock in the pack are in team rehab, most with shoulder reconstructions.

The EOYT is almost perfectly set up. The three hard games are a fortnight apart, with the two easier games in between. IMO all the squad should start in a minimum of two games and definitely no player should start all five regardless of who they are, especially those who have played most of the Lions and RC games. Horwill, who is looking totally jaded should sit out the second and fourth game completely and come off the bench in one of the other three. You could almost pick the teams now and get it 90% right. I won't go through every position but take the front row as an example:

• England's scrum is weak with Corbiserio out, but otherwise it will be a tough hard game; start with Slipper, Moore and Alexander with Robinson, Fainga'a and Kepu in reserve.
• Italy's scrum is strong but it will be an easier game; start with Robinson, TPN and Kepu with Slipper, Fainga'a and Ryan on the bench.
• Ireland will be strong everywhere but probably not yet gelling together in their new coaching system; start with Robinson, Moore and Kepu with Slipper, TPN and Alexander on the bench.
• Scotland will be good in the scrum but weak elsewhere. Start Slipper, Fainga'a and Ryan with Robinson, TPN and Alexander in reserve.
• Wales will be the toughest game. Start Robinson, Moore and Kepu with Slipper, TPN and Alexander in reserve.

The current workload is absolutely killing our players and no one seems to notice or care. The ARU are desperate (they'd play Lithuainia as well if they thought there was money in it) and its up to Link to see that players get the recovery they need. That means using the whole squad, not just waiting to see who breaks and plugging the gap. As I see it Slipper, Moore, Alexander, Horwill, Simmons, Hooper, Mowen, maybe Fardy, Genia, AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper), Lilo, To'omua maybe, and Folau have all been playing week-in week-out since late January. None of them need five more tests back to back.

I pretty much agree with all of this, but Benny A needs to start one more game to meet your own criterion of a minimum two games for every player.

I would certainly run all the reserves in the Italy test. It doesn't count towards a grand slam so is largely immaterial if we win or lose. Much better to concentrate on trying to win 4 out of 5 imo.

 

[Zander]

Australia:
2012 15 tests
2013 10 tests

NZ:
2012 14 tests
2013 10 tests

These stats don't include EYOT for 2013. I'd say it's a clever ploy by the ARU to get to #1 in rankings by simply playing more tests-screw player welfare.

I meant including 2011 where Australia played an extra 2 on the EOYT and they will play an extra 3 on this year's EOYT for 5 more than the next. Outrageous from the ARU.

 

[badabing59]

I meant including 2011 where Australia played an extra 2 on the EOYT and they will play an extra 3 on this year's EOYT for 5 more than the next. Outrageous from the ARU.

Ok includes 2013 EYOT

Aus:
2011 13 tests
2012 15 tests
2013 15 tests

NZ:
2011 12 tests
2012 14 tests
2013 14 tests

No wonder players are knackered when you factor in S15 commitments.

 

[Scotty]

The bigger issue is that we have less depth and therefore less ability to rotate, not the fact we have one or two more tests a year.

Afterall I suspect the kiwis would play more NPC games than our player turn up in club games (and it is obviously a higher level).

 

[emuarse]

He's already there

Whoops, my bad, but you get my drift (really gotta quit that rum)

 

[Scrubber2050]

Reckon the piggies team is nearly set in stone. Seems that
slipper moore and alexander with Robbo and Kepu on the pine
Simmons and Horwill (but under huge pressure - maybe timani)
fardy Hooper and Mowen

 

[Braveheart81]

Reckon the piggies team is nearly set in stone. Seems that
slipper moore and alexander with Robbo and Kepu on the pine
Simmons and Horwill (but under huge pressure - maybe timani)
fardy Hooper and Mowen

What I can't understand is why this is the case.

If we'd had a stronger performance by our forwards in the last test against New Zealand we'd have come very close to winning.

Slipper, Alexander and Horwill in particular are all substantially out of form. When we have players who have been doing well off the bench, they should be given a crack.

 

[Zander]

Afterall I suspect the kiwis would play more NPC games than our player turn up in club games (and it is obviously a higher level).

All Blacks don't play NPC games...

 

[Braveheart81]

I meant including 2011 where Australia played an extra 2 on the EOYT and they will play an extra 3 on this year's EOYT for 5 more than the next. Outrageous from the ARU.

How are we playing an extra 3 tests on this EOYT? Are you comparing us against NZ?

We play one extra test than them this year. They have four tests on the EOYT and we have five.

 

[fatprop]

Reckon the piggies team is nearly set in stone. Seems that
slipper moore and alexander with Robbo and Kepu on the pine
Simmons and Horwill (but under huge pressure - maybe timani)
fardy Hooper and Mowen

The whole team should be under pressure, we lost

 

[Jets]

I was never a Mowen fan but he impressed me since going to the Brumbies and his first couple of tests. He's not an 8 and would be behind Fardy on current form at 6. He'll keep his spot due to no other options, and his lineout work.
How I long for another Toutai Kefu.

 

[Zander]

How are we playing an extra 3 tests on this EOYT? Are you comparing us against NZ?

We play one extra test than them this year. They have four tests on the EOYT and we have five.

Yeah mistake, I meant 1 extra but Australia played 2 extra in 2011. So 4 more than NZ.

 

[BDA]

What I can't understand is why this is the case.

If we'd had a stronger performance by our forwards in the last test against New Zealand we'd have come very close to winning.

Slipper, Alexander and Horwill in particular are all substantially out of form. When we have players who have been doing well off the bench, they should be given a crack.

I agree with most of your comment but I think its a bit hard on Slipper to say he's "substantially out of form". He was poor against the Blacks, however I would say he was one of our better forwards in a number of the Rugby Championship Games. He'll bounce back.

Nevertheless I wouldn't start with him this week. I'd go with scrum power.

 

[Slim 293]

Slipper's scrummaging in test matches all year has been pretty poor........

And I'm sick of seeing him with the ball out on the wing........ especially when he gets outmuscled by opposition wingers.......

 

[Braveheart81]

I agree with most of your comment but I think its a bit hard on Slipper to say he's "substantially out of form". He was poor against the Blacks, however I would say he was one of our better forwards in a number of the Rugby Championship Games. He'll bounce back.

Nevertheless I wouldn't start with him this week. I'd go with scrum power.

I think he was pretty good early in the Rugby Championship but tailed off badly towards the end.

His last two tests were easily his weakest this season (in what were the Wallabies two best games overall since McKenzie took over).

That to me would suggest it's time to give him a rest and let Robbo start.

This week I would start Robbo and Kepu and have Alexander and Ryan on the bench.

Next week against Italy I would start Alexander and Ryan and have Slipper and Kepu on the bench.

The week after I would start Robbo and Slipper and have Alexander and Kepu on the bench.

I would then play it by ear for the final two tests of the tour based on what we've seen after three weeks.

I would like to see Alexander and Slipper switched around a bit this tour. Both can play LH or TH and I think it is worth looking at.

With 5 tests we've got 10 starting spots and 10 bench spots to use amongst the 5 props on tour.

I'd like to see each prop get between 1 and 3 starts (I'd give Ryan one start against Italy and Robbo 3 starts, the others 2 each), and 2 games each from the bench.

 

[Hawko]

I pretty much agree with all of this, but Benny A needs to start one more game to meet your own criterion of a minimum two games for every player.

I would certainly run all the reserves in the Italy test. It doesn't count towards a grand slam so is largely immaterial if we win or lose. Much better to concentrate on trying to win 4 out of 5 imo.

"Everyone gets two starts" is hard to achieve if you want Robbo and Kepu starting against the three best scrummaging teams as I do. You'll note that in my scenario Ryan gets one start and one bench while Alexander gets one start and three benches. But its a much better balance of workload than what I think we'll see. Let's say its a rule of thumb rather than a criterion.

Starting all the reserves against Italy but then selecting the full team for the last three games does not give the starters the rest that they clearly need. Three games in three weeks was not even attempted for the RC; at least everyone got a week's break after two tests.

 

[Zander]

I would start your best scrum against Italy (although Ewen doesn't seem to know which that is). Scotland's scrum is the only weak one.

 

[wamberal]

I know this is the wrong thread, but does anyone know the Wallabies 'Team of the Century'? I've been looking online and can't seem to find it.

Which century? My best all-time team would be:

15. Terry Curley
14. Dally Messenger
13. Michael O'Connor
12. Tim Horan
11. David Campese
10. Trevor Allen
9. Ken Catchpole
8. Mark Loane
7. Col Windon
6. Dick Thornett
5. John Eales (c)
4. Rob Heming
3. Jon White
2. Tom Lawton
1. Topo Enriquez


I did not see Messenger, Allen, or Windon play. But they were all, from all accounts, amongst the greatest players of any era. Terry Curley retired far too young, he is a bit of a sentimental choice for me. Dick Thornett of course played second row (as it was called), lock in today's lingo. But he would have been a strong contender for the lock position in my team, other than for the fact that he was played out of position and he was fast enough, athletic enough, and skilful enough to have killed 'em at 6.