Super Rugby - I am bored

[Blue]

Ok that's it.

I am bored stiff by Super Rugby.

I always scoffed at people who had the audacity to suggest that it was a boring comp but this year I have to say I am more than just a bit disappointed.

I have always watched many games because I am such a rugby tragic but this year I have found all the derby games (except a few Kiwi ones) to really lack spark, and in most cases they have been absolutely dour. Force vs Rebels game me the shits after being talked up. Then I stayed up top watch the Sharks Cheetahs game which has to be one of the biggest piles of shit served up in a long, long time.

The local commentators have really been struggling to sound convincing when trying to tap into the supposed intensity of local derbies. Expect for the Tahs vs Force boilover, and the Crusaders vs Chiefs this weekend, no derby has been remotely exciting to watch for 80 minutes.

There has not been a good SA derby this year. They all sucked.

Note that the SA teams are pretty crap this year but that's not the reason why I feel like this.

The product has become stale. I know a lot of rugby lovers who barely watch a game any longer other than the odd glance when the Tahs are playing. Even some of the Kiwis in my area with whom I used to talk rugby seem to have lost interest.

There's lots of talk about Aus and NZ kicking SA out / SA leaving etc etc. Maybe not a bad thing. Some sort of change is needed.

I never thought I'd feel like this about rugby. I am a total nut, but I am bored.

Sadly I am looking forward more to the pointy end of the NBA finals than the Super Rugby finals at the moment.

 

[Pfitzy]

Sadly I am looking forward more to the pointy end of the NBA finals than the Super Rugby finals at the moment.

But seriously, I know what you mean. It can get a bit much trotting out the same thing every week, and when I had Foxtel I would record all the games, but only watch the Tahs in full, with the odd other controversial / good game based on other peoples' comments. Most of it was just watching highlights of each game.

Again, there isn't enough attack because the referees aren't going to the pocket often enough to punish cynical play. So as the World Cup approaches, players are trying to not lose games, because winning them is harder.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Sadly I am looking forward more to the pointy end of the NBA finals than the Super Rugby finals at the moment.

Whats the NBA?
There are quite a few similarities to my uneducated eye: a scrum can take 5 minutes to set if its within kicking distance and a penalty won't win it (Saders v Tahs 2013) just as the last 30 seconds of an NBA game can take 5 minutes to play.

 

[Dismal Pillock]

i hear ya Blue. was watching some match weeks ago, in a cavernous empty bok stadium, all silent scrum resets, and then minutes of silent grunty 1-metre bash-and-fall around the ruck, halftime came, channel surfed over to the premier league poofball and it was verve and colour, pace and frenzy, and frenetic roaring crowd. The wife says "this is much better" and I had to agree. The contrast was startling.

I switched it back to the rugby of course, before the poofballers went all "Pablo, back to Escobar, back to Pablo" on me

 

[mst]

But seriously, I know what you mean. It can get a bit much trotting out the same thing every week, and when I had Foxtel I would record all the games, but only watch the Tahs in full, with the odd other controversial / good game based on other peoples' comments. Most of it was just watching highlights of each game.

Again, there isn't enough attack because the referees aren't going to the pocket often enough to punish cynical play. So as the World Cup approaches, players are trying to not lose games, because winning them is harder.

Yes! Card or whatever it takes to stop the cynical play. I may be a simpleton, but when I hear the word "interpretation" used in conjunction with a sport rule book I cant help but think its a high brow way of describing a deficiency the way the rule book is written. I think when you need to have a publication that provides scenarios to help you understand the rules and their application it speaks volumes as to why the games have become painful to watch at times.

We all sit there week in week out and can see with our own eyes what is slowing the game down, preventing attacking rugby and making us switch channels. Its a game that has a long history played by professional players. Why do we need to always warn, and give chances etc etc. FFS they know what they are doing, less coaching from the referees please. And the rules need to encourage attacking play.

I don't know the answer, power plays like Ice Hockey (player sent to the side line for 5 minutes or when he play ends) may be a fix in addition to cards. Extra points on top of a try if decline to kick a penalty and go for the line? Change the offside line slightly - last feet plus a metre?

 

[Omar Comin']

Super Rugby in its current form is reaching its end point I think. The momentum is getting stronger against it now. It's time for change.

My solution: 12-14 team Trans Tasman comp (possibly 1 or 2 from Asia), small law variations to decrease time wasted on scrums and penalties and to encourage positive play, more innovative scheduling (e.g. it's the Easter long weekend and we have no matches on the Sunday or Monday afternoon!), 2 teams in the biggest cities (Sydney, Auckland, Brisbane) to create cross town rivalries, and no de-valuing interferences to the competition or its teams by national unions! Open the teams up to more imports, but from nations we have an interest in developing - particularly Argentina, Japan, USA, Canada and the PI's.

That's the sort of competition that could bring back some vibrancy to rugby in Australia. Something that could rival the NRL...or at least, to begin with, the A League. 6 or 7 games every week, all played at good viewing hours, teams wouldn't disappear for a couple of weeks every season and it would be more valuable to broadcasters as there'd be more content and they could have more influence on the schedule.

 

[p.Tah]

I wonder if it's just sport in general, my AFL and League mates say similar things about those sports. They also complain about the rules of those games and referee decisions.

 

[Blue]

Super Rugby in its current form is reaching its end point I think. The momentum is getting stronger against it now. It's time for change.

My solution: 12-14 team Trans Tasman comp (possibly 1 or 2 from Asia), small law variations to decrease time wasted on scrums and penalties and to encourage positive play, more innovative scheduling (e.g. it's the Easter long weekend and we have no matches on the Sunday or Monday afternoon!), 2 teams in the biggest cities (Sydney, Auckland, Brisbane) to create cross town rivalries, and no de-valuing interferences to the competition or its teams by national unions! Open the teams up to more imports, but from nations we have an interest in developing - particularly Argentina, Japan, USA, Canada and the PI's.

That's the sort of competition that could bring back some vibrancy to rugby in Australia. Something that could rival the NRL.or at least, to begin with, the A League. 6 or 7 games every week, all played at good viewing hours, teams wouldn't disappear for a couple of weeks every season and it would be more valuable to broadcasters as there'd be more content and they could have more influence on the schedule.

You cannot change laws to suit a local audience. You can't expect players to play different rules locally and internationally.

The lobbying for law chnages will continue but for now it is what it is.

It is my understanding that a Japanese team in Super Rugby is a difficult thing to achieve as the player contracts, broadcast deals and sponsorship are pretty much tied up for some years. Also, I have never read anything about anyone in Japan having an interest in joining Super Rugby. I may be wrong but I pretty much read most international rugby sites.

Same as there being this call for SA to join a European comp but nobody up there has every really given it thought.

Europe or Asia are not short terms fixes for anything. Such planning I fear will have to be years in advance.

As for the PI idea, I cannot see a business model to go and buy good players out or European contracts. You will end up with a rag tag bunch unless you have big bucks.

Anyway this has all been discussed to death and Aus / NZ will have to take a lead but they don't appear to be doing anything active unless they are amazing at plugging leaks to the media which I doubt.

I think we will see a renewal of the whole Super Duper thingo and I will continue to be bored.

Thank god for the trans Tasman netball comp. Phwoar, it's sizzling hot, especially when they get angry.

 

[Blue]

I wonder if it's just sport in general, my AFL and League mates say similar things about those sports. They also complaint about those games rules and referee decisions.

Yup seems to be endemic to oval ball codes at the moment.

Then you look at the Premiership, Top 14 and Heineken Cup games in Europe and the fans don't appear to complain much.

 

[Omar Comin']

You cannot change laws to suit a local audience. You can't expect players to play different rules locally and internationally.

The lobbying for law changes will continue but for now it is what it is.

In basketball, a bigger international sport than rugby, the rules in the NBA are slightly different to international rules. Same in ice hockey (where the size of an NHL arena is smaller than an international one). The players adapt okay.

The NRL trials new rules all the time. Sometimes these are embraced by the super league in the UK, sometimes they're not. When they play test matches they play under the official international rules. Players adapt fine.

Why shouldn't we trial slight variations to suit our market? I'm not talking about anything particularly radical. But for example, the Varsity Cup in South Africa has been trialling 2 referees, 3 points for a conversion and 2 for a penalty, and special jerseys for props with more grip on the sides. All have apparently worked quite well. If things we try have good results then it gives us more impetus to lobby for such changes to be made at IRB level.

It is my understanding that a Japanese team in Super Rugby is a difficult thing to achieve as the player contracts, broadcast deals and sponsorship are pretty much tied up for some years. Also, I have never read anything about anyone in Japan having an interest in joining Super Rugby. I may be wrong but I pretty much read most international rugby sites.

Eddie Jones has talked about it being a no brainer. And given the world cup in 2019 will be played in Japan I think the Japanese will be desperate to do anything they can to a) increase the appeal and exposure of the sport in Japan, and b) improve the quality of their national team. What the ARU and NZRU could do is have an open mind about new teams. Have a tender process and see what sort of response they get.

As for the PI idea, I cannot see a business model to go and buy good players out or European contracts. You will end up with a rag tag bunch unless you have big bucks.

I'm just saying if we were to open up import spots, we should open them up to certain countries. They shouldn't be mandatory! Teams can make their own business decisions. But for the record, there is a lot of great young talent in the islands that never gets signed by anyone. And there are a lot of talented PI background players in Australia and NZ that are forced to leave if and when they declare themselves for a PI country (in an ambition to play test rugby for them).

 

[Scoey]

In basketball, a bigger international sport than rugby, the rules in the NBA are slightly different to international rules. Same in ice hockey (where the size of an NHL arena is smaller than an international one). The players adapt okay.

The NRL trials new rules all the time. Sometimes these are embraced by the super league in the UK, sometimes they're not. When they play test matches they play under the official international rules. Players adapt fine.

Why shouldn't we trial slight variations to suit our market? I'm not talking about anything particularly radical. But for example, the Varsity Cup in South Africa has been trialling 2 referees, 3 points for a conversion and 2 for a penalty, and special jerseys for props with more grip on the sides. All have apparently worked quite well. If things we try have good results then it gives us more impetus to lobby for such changes to be made at IRB level.

The NRL, NHL and NBA are all sports/comps that are pretty much bigger than any international version of each game so they can tinker with their rules to their hearts content.

I've really enjoyed the Rugby this season. The comp is as tight as it's ever been and most games are nail biters!
I find it frustrating that for years, Australia has been lambasted as being weak and uncompetitive in the S15 an all of a sudden we're probably the strongest conference in the comp, the games tighten up and then the rugby's boring.

There's nothing wrong with Rugby.


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[qwerty51]

Interesting, the Rebels vs Force match was high quality I thought. The ball retention and breakdown accuracy was top notch by both sides. You and I must have different views of quality of rugby.

 

[Scoey]

Never thought I'd see the day. Agree with you 100% qwerty.


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[cyclopath]

I have enjoyed many of the games I have watched, but I admit I watch few of the SA games due to timezone issues. Many have had accurate, aggressive defence, and hotly contested breakdowns. The Chiefs miracle draws have had appeal too, although a "looser" styled game. Yeah, some games a bit dire, but overall, I have been pretty happy with the viewing.

 

[WorkingClassRugger]

A Bulls fan not enjoying watching his team losing. Not all that surprising.

 

[Omar Comin']

The NRL, NHL and NBA are all sports/comps that are pretty much bigger than any international version of each game so they can tinker with their rules to their hearts content.

What difference does it make? The reality is that most players that play in a domestic comp don't play at international level. And the ones that do can adapt to small differences in rules.

And maybe we should be aiming for whatever competition we are part of, super rugby or a trans tasman comp or an Asia-Pacific comp to be the NRL, NHL or NBA of rugby?

There's nothing wrong with Rugby.

Other than the fact the ARU is going broke (while it's competitors are massively growing their revenues) and crowds and TV ratings are significantly lower than they were only 10 years ago. People are voting with their feet and eyes. We either keep doing the same thing and hope everything turns around by magic, or we try new things.

 

[Slim 293]

The NRL, NHL and NBA are all sports/comps that are pretty much bigger than any international version of each game so they can tinker with their rules to their hearts content.

There's nothing wrong with Rugby.

Yes and yes.........

 

[qwerty51]

One of the problems I see with the lack of tries (statistically) for the last couple of rounds is the offside line. The assistants aren't doing their job properly at all, I don't put too much blame on the referee for missing offsides since it's hard to keep an eye on when looking at the breakdown. Teams are getting away with not being behind the last foot and not back 5 and 10m from scrums and lineouts far too often. Needs to be a crackdown, this should free up some space in the game that appears to have been lost.

 

[Scoey]

What difference does it make? The reality is that most players that play in a domestic comp don't play at international level. And the ones that do can adapt to small differences in rules.

And maybe we should be aiming for whatever competition we are part of, super rugby or a trans tasman comp or an Asia-Pacific comp to be the NRL, NHL or NBA of rugby?

The main difference is that whilst the majority of players won't play above Super Level, some do and we simply don't want our test players playing under different rules for 9 months out of 12 to what they'll play under come test season. The success of Rugby in Australia is almost completely dependant on whether the Wallabies are doing well.

Other than the fact the ARU is going broke (while it's competitors are massively growing their revenues) and crowds and TV ratings are significantly lower than they were only 10 years ago. People are voting with their feet and eyes. We either keep doing the same thing and hope everything turns around by magic, or we try new things.

Glass half full vs glass half empty. The ARU are making the right noises to turn things around. Pulver has work to do but I think he's going about the business side of things the right way. Put simply, I don't think we're doing the same things. The third tier comp is about to start to state the obvious.
I think you are overstating Rugby's competitors positions and understating ours but. Rugby's doing fine.


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[Omar Comin']

The success of Rugby in Australia is almost completely dependant on whether the Wallabies are doing well.

And herein lies the number 1 problem we have. All our eggs are in 1 basket. And that 1 basket only plays 6 times a year in Australia and once or twice in each major city. And they will always have periods of poor performance, especially as rugby becomes bigger around the world.

The key to growing rugby in Australia is not the Wallabies. Good periods for the Wallabies should be a bonus, not the foundation of the games success. It's the level underneath that is most important. And the level underneath currently sucks compared to the other major football codes. Super rugby is an unwieldy competition that doesn't produce enough local 'product' and continually gets undermined by the national unions that run it.

I think you are overstating Rugby's competitors positions and understating ours but. Rugby's doing fine.

NRL, AFL, A-League, Top 14, Aviva Premiership, European Cup rugby...all trending up significantly over the last 10 years.

Australian rugby...trending down. The NRC should be a great development competition but it isn't going to solve the bigger problems.

Carry forward these trends a few more years and the ARU will not be able to keep our best players in Australia. Our competitions will be 2nd rate and the Wallabies will be picked from the top European leagues. Niche sport status confirmed.