NRC Crowd Watch

[Rugbynutter39]

And really should we be debating whether A-League 3rd or 4th Football code...

As how long has it been going compared to super rugby....as if not 3rd now it soon will be which is really bigger point here...games like A-league and AFL are growing strongly and not only in fans but commercially...rugby is not in that same category...

 

[Pfitzy]

Speaking to the Rams movers and shakers at the pub today, and they had roughly a month to get it together, then wait for the Southern Districts and Eastwood guys to finish finals before they could even have squad training.

I made sure that i shook hands with some of the senior people and thanked them for a great season. I'll have feedback no doubt, and they'll be happy to get it.

But this is all part of the learning for everyone.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

I personally think RAMS look like they could be one of the more commercially successful clubs....

They are certainly trying to build their profile and build a fan base with things like BarTV stream and I notice even the little things they are doing like having a Mascot and even new little things like the kids on horn today for start of each half (ie bring something unique to market their game / horn was a great idea - little rituals like this help to market as crowds love this sort of stuff...yeh not a hakka but you get the pciture).

They also have a great catchment to work with.....I have no doubt they will learn and become better....

But they also need some help...which is around broader marketing of NRC generally...

E.g. have a NRC team of the week on rugby.com website...get them to talk about it on Rugby HQ on Fox (sponsored session).

Cross market memberships with Super rugby purchases e.g. let them choose which membership they want but offer a discount if they also say buy a Rebels and Rising joint full year package..

Have a best of the NRC (non super rugby) play a different Super Rugby Side each year in one off game ....(future)

Send marketing flyers out to all super rugby members

Do promotions which state "come and watch the next future super rugby and/or wallabies" ie get a tag line of what it is about

Do cross marketing campaigns which promote the three tiers ie Wallabies, Super Rugby and NRC (ie build of strong brands)...

At Wallaby or Super Rugby games do a crowd scan and offer the fan selected in the crowd a free super rugby and NRC membership for the season of their choice.

At Super Rugby games give out flyers as people enter the grounds...particularly towards end of season promoting NRC...allow people to add NRC or superrugby memberships to their wallabies or super rugby ticket purchases.

Lots more can do - but yep lets see what do next year...

 

[Train Without a Station]

A-league and super rugby are not comparable because 1 has 2 other stronger competitors and the other has a single 1 month competition (BBL) competing.

How can they innovate? They are constrained by how the rest of the world plays rugby. Why would they change? They are successful now, they may not be if they followed changes that Australia wants.

The ARU is constrained by no FTA coverage below the wallabies. But at the same time, pay TV brought Australian rugby into professionalism and basically any prosperity Australian rugby has, it owes to Pay TV. The problem has been somewhere along the line there has to be a step backwards to go forward. The current administration cannot afford it. The previous administration didn't have the product to do it.

The only thing you can genuinely say from the outside with no real knowledge that has been poorly managed, when compared to other codes was the original ARC's make up, and cost blow outs and subsequent 7 year wait for domestic product, which is what will eventually appeal to free to air.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Yes and the 7 year delay after the ARC fiasco is why rugby is behind the eight ball..whilst other codes gone from strength to strength..

Innovation has to start at home with product you got and who you are competing against...

NRC step in right direction but they have not worked out (yes yes because rushed etc) how to market it, commercially exploit it and grow the product...

Because AFL and A- League has now been growing stronger it has made competition tougher and need to act with haste

 

[Train Without a Station]

The delay was also due to the massive pushback from some of the biggest stakeholders though, the clubs.

The Australian game was built on the clubs, to move forward they need to have their influence diluted. As some of the biggest powerbrokers they aren't going to just sit idly by and allow that to happen.

 

[Pfitzy]

Rams are doing this: lot of private equity in place, with allowances for clubs that cannot afford the whole box n dice e.g. penrith.

The crowds were disappointing but there are two issues at play:

1) rugby people are already involved in club footy (Premier or Subbies) right up until September from pre season so they're a little tired of giving up their Saturday. I've been there.

2) the fucking whiners who aren't happy with the way things are set up e.g. "it's not WESTERN Sydney"

For the latter: if you don't get on board, there won't be ANY team to support you fuckwit. Get in, help out, get your voice heard. Then maybe you can get what you want.

 

[Cattledog]

Took the kids into Parramatta today for the game and had a great time alongside 1300 others. I saw lot's of good people & true believers from the local Sydney rugby community.

$20 to get my ticket and my 3 boys got in for free. Signed up for the free kids clinic & my boys Loved the 1 hour run around with the ARU fellas & Tatafu P- N before the game. Then bought 4 Rams snap back caps for $20 & got free parking at the Leagues Club. OK 3 cokes and beer set me back $20.

A Great afternoon of entertainment & quality family fun at a very reasonable price. We'll definitely be coming to more games & bringing friends in 2015.

Only downer was the Rams not capitalising on a few more opportunities and winning the game. But oh well there's always next year.

Bravo Rams for a great day!

 

[Omar Comin']

How does that make sense, you just provided stats to back up that soccer is in fact not bigger than rugby. Why would you aggregate stats too.

Stats that show more than twice as many people attend soccer matches in Australia than rugby matches?

The A League has 10 teams, Super Rugby 5. The A League teams also play more games so you can expect the average to be lower. And it's not that much lower!

The NRL also has an average attendance lower than Super Rugby. I suppose you think rugby is more popular than rugby league too?

 

[Train Without a Station]

Well the A League also has teams in Wellington, Adelaide and a second Melbourne team. That needs to be considered.

 

[Omar Comin']

Took the kids into Parramatta today for the game and had a great time alongside 1300 others. I saw lot's of good people & true believers from the local Sydney rugby community.

$20 to get my ticket and my 3 boys got in for free. Signed up for the free kids clinic & my boys Loved the 1 hour run around with the ARU fellas & Tatafu P- N before the game. Then bought 4 Rams snap back caps for $20 & got free parking at the Leagues Club. OK 3 cokes and beer set me back $20.

A Great afternoon of entertainment & quality family fun at a very reasonable price. We'll definitely be coming to more games & bringing friends in 2015.

Only downer was the Rams not capitalising on a few more opportunities and winning the game. But oh well there's always next year.

Bravo Rams for a great day!

Great post.

The Rams are doing a lot of things right. They have a good presence on social media with a lot more followers on Facebook and Twitter than the other Sydney teams. The Bar TV streams have been great and there's been some good initiatives. Yet the crowds have been similar to what the Stars have been getting - despite a much larger catchment area, a more accessible venue and a better team. I guess it shows just how far rugby is behind the other codes in Western Sydney.

Hopefully momentum will build over the next few years, because western Sydney is such an important market.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Omar, just for note. Based on those figures, the A League gets a total of roughly 65,000 per round. Super rugby gets around 42,500 when you average out all home games across the year. When you consider that's 42,500 across 5 regions, and the A League is 65,000 across 8 regions, in 2 countries it's not really much of a difference. If they introduced 2 new super rugby teams which had the lowest attendances of all teams they would come close to achieving the same.

You also have to consider that there are 3-4 opportunities to get strong away support in the A League (Melbourne, Sydney then Newcastle and Sydney and Newcastle and CC) which surely assist crowd figures. Even if you only get an extra 2,000, that would be 16,000 extra fans across a season.

The aggregate is considerable larger because there are more games, and half of our super rugby teams games are played internationally.

 

[Brumby Runner]

Haven't heard or seen a crowd figure for the Vikings.Eagles today, but my take is that it would have been around 1500. Any better guess than this?

 

[Omar Comin']

The aggregate is considerable larger because there are more games, and half of our super rugby teams games are played internationally.

Yes, and this is the reason why soccer has become bigger than rugby in Australia.

One day the NRC may peg back some ground. And the structure of Super Rugby might change in future to provide more content in good time zones for Australian viewers. We'll see.

In the meantime the A-League is on an upward trend, while rugby is flat at best. And the A-League will expand in the next few years to 12 teams. Talk is of a 3rd Sydney team and a 2nd Brisbane side. In 10 years they'll probably have 14 or 16 teams.

I don't think it's all bad for rugby. Soccer is looking to usurp the NRL and AFL as the big mass market football code in Australia. If it ever succeeds I think rugby would benefit as it would maybe start to attract more of the top level athletes that now go to Aussie Rules and League. Soccer has a different type of athlete, so there's less crossover. Rugby will always have a niche and the increasingly international nature of the game means there'll always be a lot of money and opportunity in it.

 

[Train Without a Station]

But right now the largest variance in the aggregate is the longer season. Based on the same amount of games per team, the A League aggregate would be something like 1,000,000 from 10 teams against 700,000 from 5 teams.

 

[Rugbynutter39]

Yep agree that RAMS franchise the really key franchise the ARU would want to do well as critical market for rugby which is untapped ie greater Western Sydney.

Rugby starting from lower base there compared to say Northern Suburbs where greater rugby playing pop per capita.

NRC clubs need some help - won't do it on their own ie need to use Super Rugby and Wallaby brands and strategic assistance from ARU etc to help make it work....

 

[Pfitzy]

Yet the crowds have been similar to what the Stars have been getting - despite a much larger catchment area, a more accessible venue and a better team. I guess it shows just how far rugby is behind the other codes in Western Sydney.

Larger geographically, but not really population wide. Particularly RUGBY population.

The first two years are going to be hard core supporters only. Maybe the first 4-5 unless something like e.g. Shute Shield gets shortened

 

[Omar Comin']

But right now the largest variance in the aggregate is the longer season. Based on the same amount of games per team, the A League aggregate would be something like 1,000,000 from 10 teams against 700,000 from 5 teams.

By this logic you could argue super rugby is more popular than the NRL too. It clearly isn't. Content is king and aggregate is very important to sponsors and broadcasters. It's why Fox Sports pay so much more for the A League than Super Rugby.

If we had 9 Super Rugby teams in Australia and a longer domestic season do you think the crowds would average more than the A League? Personally I doubt it.

 

[Train Without a Station]

To achieve that, we would have to maintain the existing crowds over a longer season and then get about 6k average for each of the 4 new teams, so it's not entirely unbelievable.

 

[Train Without a Station]

If the NRL is only getting about 60,000 per round, then it's not much more popular despite 11 more teams.