Springbokke vs Wallabies @ Osfontein 30/9/2017

[KAOPointman]

The Foley criticism is mind blowing after this game. It was close to his best of the season with three try assists and perfect goal kicking.

Kicking the touch finder dead in goal is a costly mistake and his defence was average.

His clearance kicking was good and he made good distance on the few he did.



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Whats wrong with criticism? What is he protected or something? Every wallaby should be able to stand up to any sort of fair criticism and come out clean!

And yes I agree, it was easily his best game of the year.....try assists, perfect conv%, and some good kick restarts......but he also did FAAR more wrong then the dead ball kick.....he missed 4 tackles in the first half alone, he quick tapped a pen adv and failed to Kick it out, he made at least 3-4 bad defensive reads either directly contributing or causing a linebreak, he knocked on, kicked it out on the full just before half time, and showed some ordinary tackling technique.....tackling the smallest winger on the field too high and getting carried 10metres for a try!
I'll make it clear once again...as all the ussuals keep jumping on the "he just wants Quade playing" comments! All I want is depth in the position. Every single other position in the wallabies team is a merry go round......BUT the 10 position. No young blood...no rotation.....no resting....no acountability for bad form....no options!
But it is good too see a few more people taking note......

 

[Ulrich]

To be fair KAOP, the 9 & 10 are not generally positions you want to be chopping and changing in a team all the time.

In any event if you think you guys have problems we have a 10 on the bench whose selection is merited by the coach as "having shown he is ready in training" whilst Combrinck, a bigger winger that can kick with both feet and has a big boot on him is overlooked because "he only played in the early and latter parts of Super Rugby and is now playing in Japan where the competition is not so strong".

Surely the coach must think the rugby public are stupid if he does not think we know it's a quota shamble and he is spinning that line to keep his job.
We will see what happens now with Uzair Cassiem injured. I think Nyakane will start with Wilco Louw on the bench or Marx will be on the bench with Wilco Louw starting and Chilliboy at 2. Gotta keep the numbers in the pack to government specification.
We may possibly even see a return of Oupa Mohoje (if he is not injured)

 

[KAOPointman]

To be fair KAOP, the 9 & 10 are not generally positions you want to be chopping and changing in a team all the time.

In any event if you think you guys have problems we have a 10 on the bench whose selection is merited by the coach as "having shown he is ready in training" whilst Combrinck, a bigger winger that can kick with both feet and has a big boot on him is overlooked because "he only played in the early and latter parts of Super Rugby and is now playing in Japan where the competition is not so strong".

Surely the coach must think the rugby public are stupid if he does not think we know it's a quota shamble and he is spinning that line to keep his job.
We will see what happens now with Uzair Cassiem injured. I think Nyakane will start with Wilco Louw on the bench or Marx will be on the bench with Wilco Louw starting and Chilliboy at 2. Gotta keep the numbers in the pack to government specification.
We may possibly even see a return of Oupa Mohoje (if he is not injured)

Ok so who plays 10 for the wallabies if Foley turns an ankle? We're covered at 9.....all the backline is interchangeable and we have a revolving door of loose forwards.....none of which are playing terribly bad.

And at least your 10 has shown in Super rugby, great attacking shape and form in a top 3 team. AND you have cover and a backup plan of sorts. Ours involves flying someone in from clubland, perhaps even highschool, and a complete backline reshuffle playiNg even more out of position! And that doesn't even takes into account the current 10s form all year......

 

[KAOPointman]

Mason has been benched for the last couple of Rams games.

No doubt the Rams are building depth then......:|
To be fair, he had a blinder of a season start....until the team got run over by the "western force"

 

[Ulrich]

Ok so who plays 10 for the wallabies if Foley turns an ankle? We're covered at 9...all the backline is interchangeable and we have a revolving door of loose forwards...none of which are playing terribly bad.

And at least your 10 has shown in Super rugby, great attacking shape and form in a top 3 team. AND you have cover and a backup plan of sorts. Ours involves flying someone in from clubland, perhaps even highschool, and a complete backline reshuffle playiNg even more out of position! And that doesn't even takes into account the current 10s form all year..

I guess the coach thinks Beale is the second best 10 you have? It may be true too but we wouldn't know unless we saw him there. I certainly don't think the train would be derailed with him at 10. Hodge & KMH could shift in his place I reckon. You still need a third option somewhere though if bad luck were to strike twice or so - think All Blacks 2011.

 

[fatprop]

Foley just isn't an exciting player, and he tends to be less erratic but that's not what gets me ticking. My feeling is the bar has always been set low for him as one of the golden boys, and some half hearted attempts were made with him and QC (Quade Cooper) on the field at the same time, but that was always temporary until the other golden child returned from the UK.

I'm just not that excited about the way the wobs play these days and I don't really see it changing much in the future. That's my own personal impression anyway.

I think you are conflating to quite different styles of 10s and presuming that evey player can only play that way.

It is like comparing Larkham and Dan Carter. One has the game play making revolve around them, the other facilitated the players around him.

Now I am not trying to suggest that any of the current crop are near the standard of either, just their are different styles and approaches to the same positions.

We have the same complaints about Hooper and Folau, many only seem to see only what they don't do.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

10's typically aren't behemoths in defence and he otherwise made a single error.

You missed my point.
He also quick tapped a pen or free kick (can’t remeber which),
and failed to Kick it out.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Whats wrong with criticism? What is he protected or something? Every wallaby should be able to stand up to any sort of fair criticism and come out clean!

And yes I agree, it was easily his best game of the year...try assists, perfect conv%, and some good kick restarts..but he also did FAAR more wrong then the dead ball kick...he missed 4 tackles in the first half alone, he quick tapped a pen adv and failed to Kick it out, he made at least 3-4 bad defensive reads either directly contributing or causing a linebreak, he knocked on, kicked it out on the full just before half time, and showed some ordinary tackling technique...tackling the smallest winger on the field too high and getting carried 10metres for a try!
I'll make it clear once again.as all the ussuals keep jumping on the "he just wants Quade playing" comments! All I want is depth in the position. Every single other position in the wallabies team is a merry go round..BUT the 10 position. No young blood.no rotation...no resting..no acountability for bad form..no options!
But it is good too see a few more people taking note..

You worry me.
There’s no alternative to Foley: he deserves criticism, but nether McGregor not Mason is anywhere near test rugby. Stewart is at least a lap ahead of them.
Then you give Folau a point? FFS.
Do your error analysis on him and start with the Coetzee kick he let bounce and then grounded in the in goal for a 22 which ultimately led to a try.
No other 15 at this level would have so little confidence (justified) in his kick at altitude (!) to deal with the situation in that manner.
His attacking angles are fucked. He needs to start his running in the backline 2m wider, run straight and then try to beat his man on the outside instead of going from running across field to running more across field.
If anyone’s a protected species ts Folau.

 

[Dan54]

As a kind of partial neutral (ok I live in Qld so have to dislike Tahs players) I don't get this constant criticism of Foley, I thought as soon as saw him he was the best 10 for Wallabies playing in Aus, and ok he has some games where he not the top of the pile, but he still best here by quite some distance, QC (Quade Cooper) seems No2, but he certainly seems to have dropped off being an international 10, I just don't think his legs have got it in them anymore. though I would say surprised he or some other specialist 10 isn't in squad.

 

[Ulrich]

I also do not understand the criticism of Foley.

He seems a good player to me. If I were to pick a Bok team but had to choose a Wallaby 10 I would pick him over any other.

With that said I liked Liliafano (don't know the spelling) and the Wallabies also had a great 15 who played for the Brumbies in Jakes' days with them who I also rate.

Having said that and getting back to my own team, I hope we Saffas eat our words down the line with regards to the criticism we have dished toward the coaching staff.

There is only two very very very tiny glimmers of hope for me to say that and the first is that Jake White had advocated for AC to take the Bok job and that AC is the one person who brings black players through the ranks more than any other coach I can think of so whilst I am bitterly hurt and disappointed with the past two seasons I am hoping that there is a plan I cannot see that comes to fruition.

 

[fatprop]

I also do not understand the criticism of Foley.

...................................................

With that said I liked Liliafano (don't know the spelling) and the Wallabies also had a great 15 who played for the Brumbies in Jakes' days with them who I also rate.

.........................

Yeah, I see Lealiifano as the most likely to be challenging Foley until Cooper decides to consistently bend his back in defence FFS. Get run over, get stepped, but bend your back and have a go in defense. Arm grabbing in defense is unacceptable

(Beale can have this disease at times as well)

 

[Froggy]

I don't want to get too far into the Wallabies 10 debate, but we keep talking about a lack of depth, surely the reason is clear. With Garden-Bachop, Hawera, Grant and Volovola all running around in Super teams, we have very few Aus 10's to pick from! Cooper, about whom I have no intention of entering that debate again for the 10,000's time, and Jono Lance, now at his third super franchise and still can't nail a starting spot!

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I don't want to get too far into the Wallabies 10 debate, but we keep talking about a lack of depth, surely the reason is clear. With Garden-Bachop, Hawera, Grant and Volovola all running around in Super teams, we have very few Aus 10's to pick from! Cooper, about whom I have no intention of entering that debate again for the 10,000's time, and Jono Lance, now at his third super franchise and still can't nail a starting spot!

Absolutely spot on - we have to take the hit of playing wallaby eligible players in every position - even more so now that the force are gone. We clog up the pathway with other countries' offcasts to the medium and long term detriment of the game. Whoever the next best Aussie 10s are they should be playing in the ACT and Melbourne. Just pick them and let them sink or swim: doing what we are doing is valuing the short term Super teams' performances (with no appreciable return - no premierships and no old head passing on knowledge) ahead of Australian rugby generally for the future.

 

[Brumby Runner]

IS,

Hawera is only two years off being Wallaby eligible, and having stayed on for the NRC it just might be his ambition. Who, out of the No 10s who have come through the U20s lately will be Wallaby ready in two years time?

I am not saying Hawera will be ready, but he just might be the best option now coming through the system.

 

[Sully]

Putting my Mod hat on for a second.
Enough of the Foley bashing. It's against the rules of the forum. And if you all think saying his tackling was off four different ways in the one post is constructive criticism your wrong.
As you were.

 

[Scrubber2050]

Well pretty exciting game to watch and a draw a reasonable result.

For all the criticism of Foley, he is, by far the best 10 running around in this country.

Front row went pretty well and Sio in particular (the last 2 games) has played the best he has since RWC. No wonder Chek is playing him for 70, particularly when one looks at the ability of his replacement.

I do think we missed an opportunity to gain points by penalty kicks. Hooper's choice. Within range at altitude the decision should be immediate. That is a failing of Hooper's captaincy (IMO). These are test matches.

Surely it is time for Squeak to hang up his boots.

Hooper had a very good game. Simmons is now one of Chek's favourites (being a Tah) and swamps Arnold by staying in the squad - probably a fair result.

The altitude didn't seem to affect the lads too much.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

IS,

Hawera is only two years off being Wallaby eligible, and having stayed on for the NRC it just might be his ambition. Who, out of the No 10s who have come through the U20s lately will be Wallaby ready in two years time?

I am not saying Hawera will be ready, but he just might be the best option now coming through the system.

The Hawera thought has occurred to me. While he's mainly pretty solid he makes some amateur mistakes. Presumably he has to stay for the NRC under his Brumbies contract but he's zero chance of ever playing for NZ so maybe that is his aim.
Stewart is the best of the U20s bunch that I've seen but I have my doubts - need to see more of him in week in week out rugby. I can't see McGregor or Mason every being test standard - which doesn't mean they won't play a test! The real problem with all the U20s is that they don't get to learn their trade, work on their limitations under pressure on a weekly basis. If they look half decent they play 10 minutes of super rugby and then Cheika falls in love with them: the NRC has not ended this issue in oz rugby.

 

[TOCC]

You worry me.
There’s no alternative to Foley: he deserves criticism, but nether McGregor not Mason is anywhere near test rugby. Stewart is at least a lap ahead of them.
Then you give Folau a point? FFS.
Do your error analysis on him and start with the Coetzee kick he let bounce and then grounded in the in goal for a 22 which ultimately led to a try.
No other 15 at this level would have so little confidence (justified) in his kick at altitude (!) to deal with the situation in that manner.
His attacking angles are fucked. He needs to start his running in the backline 2m wider, run straight and then try to beat his man on the outside instead of going from running across field to running more across field.
If anyone’s a protected species ts Folau.

I really like what Folau offers to the team, but I don’t like him doing it from fullback. I think he could be one of the best wingers in the world, but he won’t be the best fullback in the world. His kicking and passing skills are below the level which you would expect of a test fullback these days.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I really like what Folau offers to the team, but I don’t like him doing it from fullback. I think he could be one of the best wingers in the world, but he won’t be the best fullback in the world. His kicking and passing skills are below the level which you would expect of a test fullback these days.

Most don't seem to see it that way. I'm hoping that K Hunt will force Cheika's hand.

 

[A mutterer]

Whats wrong with criticism? What is he protected or something? Every wallaby should be able to stand up to any sort of fair criticism and come out clean!

identity confirmed. kaop = quade's mum.