England v Australia, Sunday 19 November 2:00am AEDT

[TOCC]

Blame the ref, blame the rules, blame the tv cameras who zoom in on Cheika... it’s really just deflecting..

Fact is, responsibility for that game falls with the players and coach.


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[Brumby Runner]

Looking for a few positives :

1. the scrum held up well when most predicted the front row, Sio in particular, would be schooled by the Poms;

2. Hodge actually competed for the ball after a box kick and caused a turnover;

3. Koriobete should have put to rest the misconception that he is a defensive liability - his hit on Farrell especially would have been worth the admission cost to be there and see it;

4. Enever showed he is as good or better at lineout duties as any of the other locks in the game. He actually had some good involvements as well - was leading the Aus tackle count and one of the best stats for carries as well when replaced.

5. Kerevi had an improved game from last week;

6. McMahon is continuing to play way above his weight.

Not much to write home about unfortunately.

On the other hand,

a) Cheika's behaviour in the box really is an embarrassment.

b) The breakdown area is a real weakness for the Wallabies;

c) Genia's form was extremely disappointing;

d) Beale had a very on and off game - a couple of offs had a big impact on the game;

e) The backline plays too shallow - causes too many forward passes or receivers getting the ball under extreme pressure;

f) Absolute lack of presence in the hard stuff by too many forwards;

g) Poor decision making by Hooper as captain on a few occasions;

h) Poor game management by the halves;

i) Defense patterns still allowing too much territory gain for the opposition and leaving outside defenders in a very vulnerable position

j) Ineffective clearance kicking from deep in own half.

The rectification of faults must come from the coaching staff first and foremost. Start with team selections. We all know who shouldn't be there. Get rid of the present defnse strategy and if necessary the defense coach. Relieve Foley of the need to kick in all circumstances - and hence maybe relieve him of his spot in the team. Never rely on Phipps as the backup No 9 ever again. Excise an un-named but obvious lock from the squad once and for all time.

 

[KOB1987]

Good post BR but it is necessary to include in the negatives Hodge’s failed kick for touch as you would have certainly highlighted it if it was Foley. Personally I think it’s a coaching negative though.

And I’m not sure that making any or all of the changes in your last paragraph will have a positive outcome on performance as in most instances you are making the assumption that there is a superior alternative.


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[barbarian]

Get rid of the present defnse strategy and if necessary the defense coach..

I think this is a massive over-reaction. Our defence held up really well, especially considering we spent 10 minutes defending with 13.

Of the English tries, you could hardly attribute them to Grey and the defensive strategy. Our umbrella defence worked a treat all night, and we forced countless handling errors through good, accurate hits.

I think it's been the area we've seen the most improvement this season, actually.

 

[dru]

and even though I was a supporter of Cheika, especially after the RWC, that has gone.

Weird. I've only just watched the match, and there is so much that went against us I just don't know where to start. There is PLENTY in the Cheika methodology that drives me nuts. But not this game, and not his reaction during the game, and not his being interviewed after. I do have some, a lot, of great annoyance in this game. Cheika is just not on the list. I'm hoping that the boys stewed after the game. That they seethed and wanted to kick something. And that next time there is a new point to prove. But while we are all cogitating: x Enever did fantastic, can you imagine a bigger shit sandwich than your first cap being this game? He did great. x Hanigan, OK maybe I have one gripe with Cheika, Hanigan was going OK especially with a 7 pig forward pack. He could have stayed longer. x Kerevi was awesome. Should not have been taken off. x Hunt did not have a chance, hope we continue to give him opportunities x Genia and Beale had their worst games of the year. x Eddie Jones did after all have a strategy to hit the Wallabies. The weather played into his hands. So did the officials. x Our scrum matches England. In my mind if not the officials. Even without a scrum coach.

 

[Viking]

Maybe try and poach him after the world cup, Larkham to continue his apprenticeship, Chekia back to the Tahs.

Maybe. But why would Eddie Jones come back? To go from the number 2 to the number 3 team in the world? Plus he has already coached Australia. From his career perspective it doesn't make sense. It would be like a bank manager moving from ANZ to CBA just for the sake of it. Unless the whole patriotism kicks in since he's an Aussie. IMO that would be the sole reason to come back.

 

[Quick Hands]

Every English coach before Jones had the same funds and players. Indeed the English team is very similar to what Australia trounced in 2015 at Twickenham. Something changed that hadn't been seen for quite a while. Also the results achieved with Japan were very significant and the regression since he (and coaching team) left just as significant. It would be churlish not to recognise that. Cheika did well at the RWC in 2015, but since then it has been a downward trajectory and the only coaching appointment that has been made that is of an undisputable proven nature is Byrne. The rest have no great experience and less success.

I agree with your points re Eddie Jones. Long time posters here will remember that I was something of a voice in the wilderness after Link's departure in advocating the appointment of E. Jones as Wallaby coach. I had recognised then, as many do now, that he had reflected on his methods and reinvented himself. Alas, as with many things on these threads, many posters can't get past provincial parrochialism or personal likes/dislikes when discussing players and coaches. In regards Cheika, I'm generally supportive of what he's done with the team. Accepting that the standard of super coaching is Australia is poor, MC basically had to start a pre-season type programme in June and the team has improved in most aspects of the game since then. The team is certainly greater than the sum of its parts if we look at where each player was in June. Having said that, I agree with your criticisms re defence and the continuing policy of hiding non-defenders out of position in defence. At test level this system as a matter of logic will fail from time to time under fatigue and more generally agains high quality opposition. From a rugby perspective, the standout for the Wallabies was the scrum - something the Cheika regime must be getting right at least.

 

[Quick Hands]

>

I think it's been the area we've seen the most improvement this season, actually.

I'd give that award to the Wallaby scrum.

 

[Quick Hands]

I think this is a massive over-reaction. Our defence held up really well, especially considering we spent 10 minutes defending with 13.

Of the English tries, you could hardly attribute them to Grey and the defensive strategy. Our umbrella defence worked a treat all night, and we forced countless handling errors through good, accurate hits.

I think it's been the area we've seen the most improvement this season, actually.

And how come you are the only person with an avatar? (i'd insert a smiley emotican here, but I can't even do that)

 

[Viking]

FFS grow up. The Laws have not changed. The calls were correct and at worst a matter of perception. If you cannot see that Rugby is not a game for you at all then, because the rules are complex and a lot is about perception. I am as avid a Wallaby supporter as there is and as I said all but the Hooper in the air call was correct.

I agree with you Gnostic. But you have to admit the whole process around making those decisions is a mess. The whole game was full of stoppages and replays which is just dead viewing IMO. I recall watching a trainer wrap Hanigan's legs for 2mins whilst everyone was having a nice ol' rest. The ref should hurry along the game and be a key part in the flow of the game instead of aiding more stoppages.

 

[Dave Beat]

I didnt record it - but that kick that went into or didnt go into touch. When i watched it live and then the replay - I'm sure the try scorer was well in front of the kicker - does anyone have access to the footage?

 

[KOB1987]

I didnt record it - but that kick that went into or didnt go into touch. When i watched it live and then the replay - I'm sure the try scorer was well in front of the kicker - does anyone have access to the footage?

If you are talking about the initial kick out of the 22 it's hard to tell. It's about 2:40 in.

 

[kiap]

Yeah. Either way, Beale could've got to that ball first but chose to hang back and watch it.

 

[Up the Guts]

If you are talking about the initial kick out of the 22 it's hard to tell. It's about 2:40 in.

Highlights are even painful to watch. Putting aside whether they were tries or not the attacking play is all us until the last minute in the video. Kerevi's break is so good to watch such great feet for a big guy, hope the Reds keep him at 12.

 

[dru]

Highlights are even painful to watch. Putting aside whether they were tries or not the attacking play is all us until the last minute in the video. Kerevi's break is so good to watch such great feet for a big guy, hope the Reds keep him at 12.

DP is at 12. NOT 10. Kerevi is 13. End of.

 

[Up the Guts]

DP is at 12. NOT 10. Kerevi is 13. End of.

Bloody hell, forgot about DP, absolutely keep Kerevi at 13 then. Competition for spots is so tight with only 4 teams. Hanigan, for instance, could easily find himself on the bench for the Tahs next year after starting for the Wallabies in most of the tests this year.

 

[KOB1987]

Yeah. Either way, Beale could've got to that ball first but chose to hang back and watch it.

And it touched the line clearly therefore was out.

 

[KOB1987]

I heard on the radio that Eddie has now weighed in saying the referee is always right. LOL.

 

[KOB1987]

IS, if Eddie was the coach we'd still have the same players to choose from, mystifying selections, probably a simpler but not necessarily better defensive setup, probably 3 shorties in the back row including George Smith, and a divisive playing group.

 

[kiap]

And it touched the line clearly therefore was out.

Debatable.

No flag went up, no whistle blown.

But our bloke decided to become a spectator and was made to look a fool.

He deserved what he got for not making the play.