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England v Australia, Sunday 19 November 2:00am AEDT

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louie

Desmond Connor (43)
Jones deserved to get the chop post 2004. Do not re-write history with recent great results. He bet very wrongly on the direction Rugby would go after 2003, and depowered the Australian scrum with a statistical analysis that showed scrums as having low importance to the game. A generation of props and locks ignored it and it has taken 10 years to partially address the problem. Add in the play by numbers game plan he had at the time and his final year was a total disaster and the completely flawed foundations he created also fed into the 2007 RWC. The Reds time was a conflation of a disillusioned and angry Jones and a totally shite Reds set up and he needed to go from their as well. From there he totally re-invented himself and his approach and at Japan and England has built a complete support staff to assist. It is in stark contrast to what Cheika has done which was off personal passion in 2014-2015 and failure since, with the only proven coach he has on board being Byrne.

England has a truck load more $$$$ then we do. Makes a huge difference. Eddy is a short term coach who can't keep his personality from being a problem. I won't buy into him doing a good job with England until he beats the All Blacks.
 

GTPIH

Ted Thorn (20)
Decision in the final quarter. Ref is playing penalty advantage. We kick the ball thru just shy of the goal line and Daly kicks it dead. Ref rules 5 metre scrum or back to penalty. My question is, how is kicking the ball dead deliberately any different to what SBW
did last week?
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
Decision in the final quarter. Ref is playing penalty advantage. We kick the ball thru just shy of the goal line and Daly kicks it dead. Ref rules 5 metre scrum or back to penalty. My question is, how is kicking the ball dead deliberately any different to what SBW
did last week?

Because it is a kick and it is what the Laws state.
 

Alex Sharpe

Chris McKivat (8)
Act with some diplomacy and not be a total tool. He is now a justifiable target of parody and derision through his own actions. I can respect passion and emotion, but is he a child or a professional coach. See my post a bit later about unaddressed flaws with the coaching of this side about what he should be doing and what the genesis of these losses have been and this year as last must be rated as a failure. So he has one of the worst losing records of a Wallabies coach, two failure seasons and bad behaviour. If the ARU had any managerial standing left they would be questioning his position, but they have also been rendered redundant by their total mismanagement up to this point.

He is damned either way. People always complain about the lack of personalities in sport and then proceed to complain even more when they get one!

I really dont think Cheika has a case to answer. He is selecting players from super rugby teams which for the most part seem to be struggling in developing a winning culture. The Wallabies generally follow an upward trajectory over the year untill the break over summer and loose the momentum the Cheika has developed.

If you look at players like Coleman, Hodge, Dempsey, Tui, Koirabete and plenty more, I actually think The Wallabies are generating some genuine youth and depth. These are all players blooded under Cheika.

And if his position was questioned, who would replace him? Nick Stiles? Tony Mcgahan? Cheika is the best by a stretch. Given the state of some of our administration and super rugby sides, blaming Cheika for all of the wallabies failures would be a very flawed way of thinking.

As for the behaviour, its all pretty victimless. Probably adds a nice change of pace from rugby's stuffy GPS boy image.
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
England has a truck load more $$$$ then we do. Makes a huge difference. Eddy is a short term coach who can't keep his personality from being a problem. I won't buy into him doing a good job with England until he beats the All Blacks.

Every English coach before Jones had the same funds and players. Indeed the English team is very similar to what Australia trounced in 2015 at Twickenham. Something changed that hadn't been seen for quite a while. Also the results achieved with Japan were very significant and the regression since he (and coaching team) left just as significant. It would be churlish not to recognise that. Cheika did well at the RWC in 2015, but since then it has been a downward trajectory and the only coaching appointment that has been made that is of an undisputable proven nature is Byrne. The rest have no great experience and less success.
 

Brumbieman

Dick Tooth (41)
Just a curiosity but where would Aust Rugby be if Eddie Jones had been coaching for the last 10 years? Hard to imagine it would have been worse off. If this gets too much emotionally for Cheika, whose passion I admire, is there any prospect of Eddie coming back?


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Maybe try and poach him after the world cup, Larkham to continue his apprenticeship, Chekia back to the Tahs.
 

Derpus

George Gregan (70)
In what way were they reffed off the park? The calls that Cheika was seen whinging about (with his constant nodding yes men) and others have also whined about here were not even close calls. The only exception being the ball touching (maybe) the line while Beale jogged and watched it. Hooper was a justified yellow for constant infringements, and he was offside for the final one with hands on the ground in front of the line (its been refereed that way for a coupe of years now, he was in front of the ball kicker for Korobiete's try and knew it but kept running the 7 line, and Moore was obstructing in front of the Korobiete for the final attempt. Beale's yellow has been one for years and he in no way attempted to intercept that ball. (Itoje on the side of the maul was not a knock on the contact was illegal with the half back's arm (offside) and Genia dropped it) The only time I thought the ref was completely wrong was the maul where Hooper was obviously tackled off the ground as he is not 7'5" and the English obviously engaged in the drive before he was on the ground and they "won" a turn over from that illegality. In no way were they reffed off the park. They conceded the same penalties in the same positions last week as well, and even against Japan when the latter managed to exert a bit of pressure. It is a factor of poor defence structures as I said.

You know what. Maybe you are right. And maybe the version of rugby you describe is really not worth watching.
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
He is damned either way. People always complain about the lack of personalities in sport and then proceed to complain even more when they get one!

I really dont think Cheika has a case to answer. He is selecting players from super rugby teams which for the most part seem to be struggling in developing a winning culture. The Wallabies generally follow an upward trajectory over the year untill the break over summer and loose the momentum the Cheika has developed.

If you look at players like Coleman, Hodge, Dempsey, Tui, Koirabete and plenty more, I actually think The Wallabies are generating some genuine youth and depth. These are all players blooded under Cheika.

And if his position was questioned, who would replace him? Nick Stiles? Tony Mcgahan? Cheika is the best by a stretch. Given the state of some of our administration and super rugby sides, blaming Cheika for all of the wallabies failures would be a very flawed way of thinking.

As for the behaviour, its all pretty victimless. Probably adds a nice change of pace from rugby's stuffy GPS boy image.

If I behaved the same way on here I would be banned. Colour and personality is one thing, when you lose your bottle in the stands every game you become a joke and honestly anything he says to the referee committee on review will be coloured by that. He losing standing with the behaviour and that is all that matters. Rugby in Australia at pro level is on its last legs, make no mistake, the fact that there is no genuine competition for Cheika's spot, indeed the successor has already been decided has been the case for a long time. The fact that the ARU rebadged itself and those who were in leadership positions when the biggest financial crisis in the game has come to pass have all retained their positions and determined their own terms of exit (Pulver), the fact that the Australian super Rugby sides produced the worst results and play they ever have in their history all play into it. Its not victimless when the standing of the coach and team are damaged, its only a few Australians who will defend him, to the rest of the world he is either a figure for satire or ridicule.
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
You know what. Maybe you are right. And maybe the version of rugby you describe is really not worth watching.

FFS grow up. The Laws have not changed. The calls were correct and at worst a matter of perception. If you cannot see that Rugby is not a game for you at all then, because the rules are complex and a lot is about perception. I am as avid a Wallaby supporter as there is and as I said all but the Hooper in the air call was correct.
 

Highlander35

Andrew Slack (58)
Decision in the final quarter. Ref is playing penalty advantage. We kick the ball thru just shy of the goal line and Daly kicks it dead. Ref rules 5 metre scrum or back to penalty. My question is, how is kicking the ball dead deliberately any different to what SBW
did last week?

Because some group of people, a long time ago decided that the only way to deliberately kill the ball was: to kick it out of play, to run it out of play, and grounding it in either In-Goal area, and throwing, or pushing the ball dead wasn't. But equally, legitimate errors such as a forward pass, or a knock on also kill the ball as long as there was no malice.
 

wamberal

Phil Kearns (64)
Do you cut and paste every week Wamberal.


Do me a favour, maybe my memory is a bit shaky. What did I say last week?


I just had a look back. I said nothing much about the Wales game, and nothing resembling praise after the Japan match.
 

Derpus

George Gregan (70)
FFS grow up. The Laws have not changed. The calls were correct and at worst a matter of perception. If you cannot see that Rugby is not a game for you at all then, because the rules are complex and a lot is about perception. I am as avid a Wallaby supporter as there is and as I said all but the Hooper in the air call was correct.

Narp, in the very least the knock down insta yellow is (relatively) new and negative as fuck. You can call me a child all day, but rugby is not about rugby anymore, it's about discipline. That's fine if you play but it's boring as fuck to watch.
 

Highlander35

Andrew Slack (58)
Narp, in the very least the knock down insta yellow is (relatively) new and negative as fuck. You can call me a child all day, but rugby is not about rugby anymore, it's about discipline. That's fine if you play but it's boring as fuck to watch.

Come off it, Beale never made a genuine attempt for the intercept, his only aim was to kill that ball, and all the blustering and posturing in the world can't camouflage it.
 

Derpus

George Gregan (70)
Come off it, Beale never made a genuine attempt for the intercept, his only aim was to kill that ball, and all the blustering and posturing in the world can't camouflage it.

And what. scrum and play on. Why fuck up a match over that?
 

Highlander35

Andrew Slack (58)
And what. scrum and play on. Why fuck up a match over that?
Because deliberately and illegally killing an attacking opportunity is fundamentally against the spirit of Rugby: and a reasonable punishment such as a yellow card is the best way to discourage that behaviour.

It's definitely one of the better changes to the interpretations we've had over the past 3 or 4 years.

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KOB1987

Rod McCall (65)
Gnostic has it occurred to you that the cameras deliberately zoom in on Cheika going off because their audience are entertained by it?


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Derpus

George Gregan (70)
Its completely disproportionate to the crime.
For what it's worth, i don't think participation stats disagree with my interpretation of the way rugby is trending these days. The fact that such a negatively geared team, such as England, can win so easily is rubbish.
 

Up the Guts

Steve Williams (59)
Every English coach before Jones had the same funds and players. Indeed the English team is very similar to what Australia trounced in 2015 at Twickenham. Something changed that hadn't been seen for quite a while. Also the results achieved with Japan were very significant and the regression since he (and coaching team) left just as significant. It would be churlish not to recognise that. Cheika did well at the RWC in 2015, but since then it has been a downward trajectory and the only coaching appointment that has been made that is of an undisputable proven nature is Byrne. The rest have no great experience and less success.

The 2015 world cup was a bit of an anomaly because we were able to paper over a number of cracks with old timers giving it one last crack, Gits, Mitchell etc. To be fair to Cheika I don't think it would have mattered who coached the team after that as we were always going to dip given we were missing a 12, winger, a proper back row and decent front rowers. I do think there has been an upward trajectory since bottoming out in June with a near loss to Italy and on the horizon depth is building.
 

Gnostic

Mark Ella (57)
Gnostic has it occurred to you that the cameras deliberately zoom in on Cheika going off because their audience are entertained by it?


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Yes absolutely. However the same is zooming on Gatland being his usual fat headed uninterested self and they carefully monitored Jones last week as the obvious explosion neared with him. Cheika isn't getting special treatment, but he is the director's favourite because he is the gift that keeps giving.
 
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