2015 IRB Junior Rugby World Cup - Italy

[HJ Nelson]

I thought the kid playing back up 10 for the chiefs in the first couple of games had another year in U20s - McKenzie??

From kiap's post above. I imagine he could still go to Italy though.

Unavailable for tournament selection due to Investec Super Rugby duty
Nathaniel Apa - Crusaders
Akira Ioane - Blues
Damian McKenzie - Chiefs

 

[Inside Shoulder]

From kiap's post above. I imagine he could still go to Italy though.

Unavailable for tournament selection due to Investec Super Rugby duty
Nathaniel Apa - Crusaders
Akira Ioane - Blues
Damian McKenzie - Chiefs

What? You want I should actually read the post?
<sarc>
Apologies.
I have my eye on him - Next Dan Carter IMO.

 

[redhead]

do you think they could either play wilkin , gunn and lolo together .. wilkin or lolo at 8 or 6? i would rather have all 3 then one of them on the bench, but if lolo isnt pulling his weight then obviously you have to fig in kamp, but i think the aussie coaches need a good talk with lolo and tell him they need the physical player that he is .. and then i would rather have gunn and wilkin in the backrow as well , maybe wilkin can play 6 or lolo can play 6 and he play 8

Lets look at these boys and their positions
Gunn 7
Lolo 8 (6)
Wilkin 7 (6,8)
Korczyk 6 (4,8)
Kamp 8
Anderson 6

There is limited number of permutations here but I guess AT will pick the back 3 strategically for each game. For SA (big Samoans) I would go with Korczyk at 6 (very athletic, excellent in air), Gunn (best at open side) at 7 and Lolo (still if he gets his composure back) at 8. Wilkin is superb number 7 but he could also cover 8 (so does Korczyk).
Theoretically you could play them all with Korczyk at 4/5. One important thing you need someone in back 3 to contest the linouts (outside Hanigan) and Korczyk is the best choice here.

 

[Lee Grant]

There is limited number of permutations here but I guess AT will pick the back 3 strategically for each game.

Thompson will be thinking of his team for one game - the third pool match - against South Africa. We can write a million words in this thread, but unless they take that into account we may as well not write them.

I think that Thompson will play what he thinks is his best team in the third game of the Oceania U20s (against NZ), then repeat that in the World U20s in the first game against Samoa and in the third against South Africa.

I'm not saying that they will be same individuals, especially as regards the NZ game and the first World U20 game, because his thinking about who are the best to play the SAffers will probably change after the Kiwi encounter and/or the warm-up game against an Australian Barbarians senior side in Sydney during the second camp.

We are thinking of two opensiders (Gunn and Willkin) playing together in the crunch game against South Africa, and why would we not because they have big engines and "all the skills".

But Thompson will try to avoid that scenario and do something creative. It could be something like using Hanigan at 6 (his natural position anyway) and using two big locks. I'm not saying it's that, just that it could be something different which focuses on the the South African game where size and the ability to use size is more important than having two starting opensiders, however good they are.

From the comments from Canberra I have read Lolo is not making his size count these days which is a pity because big Lolo, playing big, is what we need.
.

 

[redhead]

^^^^

Thompson will be thinking of his team for one game - the third pool match - against South Africa etc etc
.

Sorry but playing 2 inexperienced locks against SA would be a madness. I did not see Hanigan at 6 so I will not comment on his natural abilities but clearly AT has many other options here. I agree that Wilkiin and Gunn at 6 and 7 is not the best choice for the final game. I would wait for the game against Kiwis to see his strategy.

 

[Lee Grant]

You could be right redhead and I didn't mean that what I mentioned as a possibility was going to be what he was thinking - just that he will try to get around the two opensider combo if he possibly can and that was one example.

If he thinks big Lukhan is up to speed he could be the answer at TH lock though I think the big fella will be a lot better next year.

But if Gunn and Wilkin both start against NZ at Bond it will be a signal that he thinks, at that time, he doesn't have the cattle to go for size against the SAffers.
.

 

[Newbie]

... ... ...I have my eye on him - Next Dan Carter IMO.

Ditto!

I remember looking out for him when he came over with the NZ Schools team. At the time there were big wraps on him! Admittedly I thought he was ok but I wasn't at the point where I was going to 'write home' about him!

Then last year's ITM Cup came and went and my opinion had totally changed!

SuperRugby has commenced and I'm now at the point where I thinking; "surely this lad is on the 'smokey list' of AB selectors whiteboard."

 

[Hugh Jarse]

The last thing we need right now is the next Dan Carter to step up for a black jumper.

After seeing his performances in the Jnr RWC last year, I'm hoping he will be the next Tyler Blyendaal. Either that or I'm hoping that he has an Australian Grandparent or that the Chiefs desperately need him for their early July games this year.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Ditto!

I remember looking out for him when he came over with the NZ Schools team. At the time there were big wraps on him! Admittedly I thought he was ok but I wasn't at the point where I was going to 'write home' about him!

Then last year's ITM Cup came and went and my opinion had totally changed!

SuperRugby has commenced and I'm now at the point where I thinking; "surely this lad is on the 'smokey list' of AB selectors whiteboard."

Yeah - I think I must have seen him as an NZ schools and he didn't grab my attention either.

 

[Lee Grant]

I rated McKenzie highly in both games NZ Schools played at Knox in 2013 (they also played Aus A schools). I thought he was a standout.

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/nz-schools-beat-australian-schools-in-nail-biter/

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/australian-schools-beat-fiji-schools/2/
.

 

[muddy]

can anyone tell me about this kid sione tuipolotu .. he seems like a young kid with some wraps ...

 

[Dctarget]

Born and raised in Victoria. Graduated from St Kevin's College last year and captained their 1st XV to victory, though young for his year (born in 1997). Played rep pretty much from an early age. So he's always been in and around the Junior Rebels, etc.

Very effective specialist centre, prefers inside centre. In Victoria he's fairly dominant, having enough size and strength to run over the opposition but also can use a great side step and his speed to run around the opposition too. Can't really comment on his playmaking abilities, but his passing is pretty decent.

At the next level though I'm not too sure. I watched him against NZ school boys last year and he definitely didn't stand out. Actually getting thumped a few times, which would've been a new experience for him. I was surprised to see his name on the sheet for the Aus U20's, though he did score some nice tries throughout the competition.

I'm sure he'll show his worth in the upcoming games.

On a side note, I'm disappointed not to see Pat Toeta's name included. I thought he marshalled the Barbarians very well, with some great team work and also some solo incisive runs.

 

[Lee Grant]

He's a stepping 12 and is a future Rebel for sure. At the Aus Schools national championships last year he was a standout though not later against NZ Schools (not that many were) as others have mentioned.

I was a bit surprised that both he and Henry Hutchison (who was injured before the Aus Schools NZ tour last year) both made the Aussie U20s in their U18 year.

Call me an old fogey but to have two players so young in the 12 backs in an U20 side is a bit of a concern and one can only conclude that not only are they superb players for their age, but also that the older boys were not up to much.

And yes, I know the saying "if they are good enough they are old enough" because I've written it in rugby forums a few times myself.

If I had to nominate just one of the U18 players to be in the squad, I would have picked Hutchison who played like an old stager for ACT A (seniors) against the Waratahs B team in February at inside centre, though he played for NSW U20s on the wing - and who played Grade today.

As I mentioned in my blog about the squad:

http://www.greenandgoldrugby.com/aussie-under-20-squad-chosen/

… the youngest player in the squad has to carry the Joeys mascot on tour, but they may have to ask the mothers of ST and HH what time of the day they were born, because they both arrived on the same day - 12 Feb 1997.
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[muddy]

^^^^^^^^
that was my concern ,that these 2 young players were selceted.. but if the coaches have faith in them then i hope they perform to their expectations, i thought someone like jack redden had a good tournay at natls but the reports at gthe tournament.. i think i depth in certain positions are not as good as other nations

 

[Nusadan]

… the youngest player in the squad has to carry the Joeys mascot on tour, but they may have to ask the mothers of ST and HH what time of the day they were born, because they both arrived on the same day - 12 Feb 1997.
.

At least they were boys and more on time than my only daughter who chose to take her time like most women on earth to come into this world ten days late, and despite her mum getting an injection to get things started the day before, she arrived at last on this special day, February 14th in the very same year as them!

 

[Lee Grant]

^^^^^^^^
that was my concern ,that these 2 young players were selceted.. but if the coaches have faith in them then i hope they perform to their expectations, i thought someone like jack redden had a good tournay at natls but the reports at gthe tournament.. i think i depth in certain positions are not as good as other nations

Good call on Jack Redden, one of my favourites from watching the NSW 20s since December, but apparently he didn't make his mark in the win against Qld.
.

 

[rugby roo]

I think Redden IS a good player. He looked a little overawed by the rushing defence and dropped a couple of awkwardballs in Canberra, but that would have been his biggest game challenge to date i guess and he will be an even better player for that so I hope no one marks him too hard.
Its called experience and there is only one way of getting it.
That last game at Nationals was brutal and not many left anything out on the field except for Lolo. He looks like he needs a proper mentor to help him think on the field . His size and bulk is nullified by what looks like lazy mobility but I think he looks lost not lazy. You cant make every ruck , and he wont, but when you do you must have a plan to either join it or not so reading the play is very very important.
He needs help there.
I did see NSW do exactly that against the Reds big boys.Croke and Kamp didnt hit every ruck but the reds overcommitted lots of times and if you have skilfull attacking loosies they will punish you with points.
The Reds thought bashing NSW would earn them points. Wrong . Look at scoreboard.
I am quietly hoping Thomson and Blades absorbed that game properly because a NSW style will help them on big stage even though they didnt select the two of the 3 best loosies of the tournament.imo.
I also think the "experienced " A. Kellaway will be crucial marshalling troops from his back three position wherever they play him, as he did in Canberra.
Cant wait to see this squad develop and test themselves as a team.

 

[redhead]

I saw it differently. NSW advantage came from superior defence and excellent attacking skills of their backline . Reds were very deficient here. They had advantage with ball in hand many times but their backs did not deliver as they could not compete with stronger and most skilful opponents.
Suggestion that 2 of the best forwards of the tournament were not selected is rather interesting. Croke played on and off and with some good passages of play but also had few where he was rather invisible. McCalman on the other hand was unlucky. With such a depth in No 7 (Gunn and Wilkin) he was always 3rd in the picking order.
Reds boys (Magnay, Korczyk and Tuttle) left with Super Rugby team for South Africa. This will be an excellent preparation for upcoming Oceania Cup.

 

[Lee Grant]

He [Lolo] looks like he needs a proper mentor to help him think on the field . His size and bulk is nullified by what looks like lazy mobility but I think he looks lost not lazy. You cant make every ruck , and he wont, but when you do you must have a plan to either join it or not so reading the play is very very important.
He needs help there.

I am quietly hoping Thomson and Blades absorbed that game properly because a NSW style will help them on big stage even though they didnt select the two of the 3 best loosies of the tournament.imo.

An excellent post there roo, and you make an excellent point about reading the play.

it's as important for forwards to read the tight play on attack or defence as it is the backs to read it on attack or defence.

When, and precisely where, to make your participations is an attribute that all forwards have to develop else the value of their physique is depreciated.

David Lyons was an example of a Wallaby who never quite got the read of the game in time to make the difference he should have; Caderyn Neville at the Rebels has the same flaw in my opinion - but there are players like that in every team at all levels.

On the other hand there are forwards who can make their mark in the tight above your expectations of them, from their size, by getting the early hit at the breakdown, for example, or their hands on the ball at the tackle in the finger-snap window of time available—as Liam Gill did in Melbourne on Friday night in the opening quarter of the game when the Reds had 15 men.

You are not the only one who mentioned the passivity of Lolo in Canberra and one of the "commentators" who was there mentioned (after the selections were announced), that it looked like the selectors were "going for size".

That could explain the selection of a passive Lolo and the raw though large Lukhan L-T, and it makes the selection of only 29 for the first camp this year, compared to 34 last year, all the more inexplicable.


Did you see all the games involving the three Aussie teams against each other? Who were the three best loosies you mentioned above? (And of course, we have to remember that Wilkin was not in Canberra).
.

 

[Sideline Eye]

Bit slow to get these up, but better late than never.

QLD v NSW - U20 National Championships
Wed 25 March
Tuggeranong Vikings Rugby Park, Canberra