2016 Schools rowing

[bigmac]

Grammar only ever had one boarding house and that was at Coogee.
It was closed in 1976.
Since then they have won 2 HOTRs to View's 0, Joeys' 1, Scots' 1.
I don't see the availability of a boarding house influencing rowing - particularly when it was at Coogee.
I may be wrong but the school will not compete if to compete they need to sacrifice academic time - including summer holiday time when year 12 students are expected to be preparing for their mid year exams - which they have just had and which ended in the week of the HOTR.
Academic selectivity per se has nothing to do with it: the school has been academically selective since the early 70's.
Academic selectivity does mean, however, that many old boys decide (often if not usually wrongly) that their male offspring will not make the cut. This has the effect of virtually eliminating old boy input into the running of the school and negates any clamour by old boys to produce sporting results consistent with (in many cases imagined) past glories.
This ethos is self perpetuating in that the parents who perceive the value in this sort of education tend not to be ex wallabies (despite the number of Wallaby captains it has produced).

Academic selectivity also means grammar has a large proption of asian students who are generally less sporting inclined esp in rowing and rugby. High faces this same issue. Has been thus for years. No change is imminent.

 

[Sweepoar]

The suggestion that Grammar should leave 1s rowing is completely stupid. Firstly They were not particularly uncompetitive. They came seventh by a small margin of 2 second and often beat schools like kings, newington and scots in earlier regattas. Further, last year it was Kings who came 7th and they were behind the 6th placed grammar by a larger margin of 6 seconds yet nobody suggested that Kings were a catastrophe who should drop out. Somebody has to come 7th and 8th and this should not be a reason for them to drop out espescially when they were not that far of the next place and had proved themselves as more than competitive in other regattas.

Further, to those who simply assume that next year's crew will be terrible, i would say they are the same people who said Iggies could never come second this year, so I would wait and see before i opened my mouth.

 

[bigmac]

The suggestion that Grammar should leave 1s rowing is completely stupid. Firstly They were not particularly uncompetitive. They came seventh by a small margin of 2 second and often beat schools like kings, newington and scots in earlier regattas. Further, last year it was Kings who came 7th and they were behind the 6th placed grammar by a larger margin of 6 seconds yet nobody suggested that Kings were a catastrophe who should drop out. Somebody has to come 7th and 8th and this should not be a reason for them to drop out espescially when they were not that far of the next place and had proved themselves as more than competitive in other regattas.

Further, to those who simply assume that next year's crew will be terrible, i would say they are the same people who said Iggies could never come second this year, so I would wait and see before i opened my mouth.

I suggested that crews who were not competitive on their class should be moved down to another class to remain competitive like non gps common practice . The grammar first eight were ok and should remain in place. I never said they should be moved down.
Their second eight were not competitive and should not have been in their event.

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[fpiglet]

Heard that one crewmember from Riverview 1st 8 took ill the night before the HOTR and couldn't row. He was apparently replaced by another lad who hadn't rowed since December and they still rowed to a second place. Incredible result if correct..?

 

[fpiglet]

Can't believe other crews cant challenge shores dominance in at least one race. Joeys did ok for a few seasons. Someone needs to step up.

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Alright?? They've had two seconds, one third and a win for the last four. They're still there trying to step up!

 

[bigmac]

Alright?? They've had two seconds, one third and a win for the last four. They're still there trying to step up!

Joeys are doing well, grant you that. Their gold standard remains 1992 when they won all fours and placed second in both eights to strong newington crews.

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[IV The Win]

Heard that one crewmember from Riverview 1st 8 took ill the night before the HOTR and couldn't row. He was apparently replaced by another lad who hadn't rowed since December and they still rowed to a second place. Incredible result if correct..?

I can confirm that

 

[bigmac]

Heard that one crewmember from Riverview 1st 8 took ill the night before the HOTR and couldn't row. He was apparently replaced by another lad who hadn't rowed since December and they still rowed to a second place. Incredible result if correct..?

Surely they promote a second eight rower. Pulling a half fit guy from nowhere is crazy.

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[IV The Win]

Surely they promote a second eight rower. Pulling a half fit guy from nowhere is crazy.

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Surely not the day before HOTR, risking one crew with an untested combination is less risky that bringing up someone from the second eight. Probably would have ruined some of the fours as well trying to fill the place.

 

[bigmac]

Surely not the day before HOTR, risking one crew with an untested combination is less risky that bringing up someone from the second eight. Probably would have ruined some of the fours as well trying to fill the place.

First eight is the priority boat ie the best eight rowers go into the crew. If its the best seven plus a ring in its not really a first eight.

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[Not in straight]

Grammar only ever had one boarding house and that was at Coogee.
It was closed in 1976.
Since then they have won 2 HOTRs to View's 0, Joeys' 1, Scots' 1.
I don't see the availability of a boarding house influencing rowing - particularly when it was at Coogee.
I may be wrong but the school will not compete if to compete they need to sacrifice academic time - including summer holiday time when year 12 students are expected to be preparing for their mid year exams - which they have just had and which ended in the week of the HOTR.
Academic selectivity per se has nothing to do with it: the school has been academically selective since the early 70's.
Academic selectivity does mean, however, that many old boys decide (often if not usually wrongly) that their male offspring will not make the cut. This has the effect of virtually eliminating old boy input into the running of the school and negates any clamour by old boys to produce sporting results consistent with (in many cases imagined) past glories.
This ethos is self perpetuating in that the parents who perceive the value in this sort of education tend not to be ex wallabies (despite the number of Wallaby captains it has produced).

@IS some very good points you make.

But if you select for Nerds, you are always going to struggle in sporting endeavours.

 

[fpiglet]

First eight is the priority boat ie the best eight rowers go into the crew. If its the best seven plus a ring in its not really a first eight.

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Reckon if they punch above their weight and jag a second then if it looks like a duck and rows like a duck then....... It's a signature Doyle move. He builds crews around a culture that allows flexibility.

 

[bigmac]

Reckon if they punch above their weight and jag a second then if it looks like a duck and rows like a duck then... It's a signature Doyle move. He builds crews around a culture that allows flexibility.

I know doigs. He is a crafty devil. All part of the masterplan.

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[Inside Shoulder]

@IS some very good points you make.

But if you select for Nerds, you are always going to struggle in sporting endeavours.

I disagree.
The best thing a school could do for nerds would be to teach them that there is more to life than being a nerd - just as the best thing a school could do for a "jock" is to teach him that there is more to life than sport.

 

[Quick Hands]

I disagree.
The best thing a school could do for nerds would be to teach them that there is more to life than being a nerd - just as the best thing a school could do for a "jock" is to teach him that there is more to life than sport.

And rowing would seem to be a sport where a good programme could get most kids to a reasonable level. Many of these academic kids are quite disciplined, which they could apply to most sports, but rowing in particular.

But as you say, someone needs to convince them of its worth - the way one convinces boys is by actions rather than words. So Grammar (and any other school for that matter), needs to place a value on sporting achievement.

 

[Not in straight]

Not sure of the enrolment pressure at Grammar. But say they take in 150-200 year 7 boys each year. These boys selected purely on an entrance exam and the highest performers get entry.

Then at some point in years to come you end up with a school full of very smart mostly Asian kids with little understanding of the Gps schools culture and traditions.

Are these kids interested in rowing boats and playing cricket and rugby? I think not, they will just want to keep their heads in the books.

 

[behindtheshed]

It's amazing that rowing is not more attractive at Grammar, given that it's non-contact.

What's interesting to me is that Queenwood and Loreto Normanhurst both run very successful rowing programs (despite my contempt for Queenwood's tactics) and also perform extremely well in the HSC.

Obviously any school has its cream which achieves the 99+, but the measure of any school is the percentage over 95 and over 90. So the girls' schools consistently have a substantial percentage in both those brackets (approx 40% over 95, 60% over 90), but also boast heavy participation in rowing and other sports. Grammar consistently has approximately 50% of its cohort over 95 - yes that's an impressive stat, BUT that cohort was already the cream of the crop. Q'wood and LNH take all comers.

At Grammar has chosen the morally upright path of entering crews in descending order from First VIII. Kinross and St.Aug's take note.

 

[cyclopath]

Not sure of the enrolment pressure at Grammar. But say they take in 150-200 year 7 boys each year. These boys selected purely on an entrance exam and the highest performers get entry.

Then at some point in years to come you end up with a school full of very smart mostly Asian kids with little understanding of the Gps schools culture and traditions.

Are these kids interested in rowing boats and playing cricket and rugby? I think not, they will just want to keep their heads in the books.

Nope. There are maybe 50 or so spots available outside of the Prep students from St Ives and Edgecliff, who are all pretty much offered a spot unless way off the pace. Getting a kid into prep is much easier than senior school, but still challenging in some ways (I have many mates whose kids have been knocked back, and I can assure you the kids are not dunces!). But the entrance exam actually is only a gateway to 20-25% at most of the intake. The school is not "mostly Asian" by any means, but the parenthood of most of the kids are more focussed on academic outcomes than rugby / rowing / basketball pathways. So changing that perspective means a big grassroots shift, more at prep level than senior school, and I can't see that happening.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Not sure of the enrolment pressure at Grammar. But say they take in 150-200 year 7 boys each year. These boys selected purely on an entrance exam and the highest performers get entry.

Then at some point in years to come you end up with a school full of very smart mostly Asian kids with little understanding of the Gps schools culture and traditions.

Are these kids interested in rowing boats and playing cricket and rugby? I think not, they will just want to keep their heads in the books.

Talk about racial stereotypes. I've known good asian rugby players in the NSW school system.
Eddie Jones is half japanese. They played a super 18 game in Singapore on the weekend.
Otherwise what Cyclo said

. Grammar consistently has approximately 50% of its cohort over 95 - yes that's an impressive stat, BUT that cohort was already the cream of the crop.

Grammar say not: they claim that very few of the boys who get in would get into the selective high schools.
Not all of their scholarship holders are in the top class either.
Anyway no one is going to change it.
I hear tonight that there are only 30 boys playing ruby in opens and that some boys who toured England in September/October last year have pulled out. They didnt like getting up at 6am to train.
Some of them are rowers.
This is the type of crap you are up against.

 

[bigmac]

It's amazing that rowing is not more attractive at Grammar, given that it's non-contact.

What's interesting to me is that Queenwood and Loreto Normanhurst both run very successful rowing programs (despite my contempt for Queenwood's tactics) and also perform extremely well in the HSC.

Obviously any school has its cream which achieves the 99+, but the measure of any school is the percentage over 95 and over 90. So the girls' schools consistently have a substantial percentage in both those brackets (approx 40% over 95, 60% over 90), but also boast heavy participation in rowing and other sports. Grammar consistently has approximately 50% of its cohort over 95 - yes that's an impressive stat, BUT that cohort was already the cream of the crop. Q'wood and LNH take all comers.

At Grammar has chosen the morally upright path of entering crews in descending order from First VIII. Kinross and St.Aug's take note.

I reckon non gps schools who hold rowers back from the senior eights are doing the right thing by selecting boys in their class or level as long as they are not medal chasing.Throwing them into senior eights when they are not ready doesn't do them any favours. Grammar and high could do the same thing in the second eight and fours based in current form. I accept both schools compete reasobly well in the first eights. Not an issue there.

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