AIC Rugby 2012

[Hashone]

I know Andrew Tully 1, Harley Fox 5, Jake Redman?7 and Jake Turpin 10 for Eddies were all apart of the victorious U15 Metwest side last year with the first three making the U15 Junior Gold High Performance camp which is probably where selectors will have a list of must watch players from.[/qu
eddies 16 a's & 1sts had, Jake Redman, Harley Fox, Jake Turpin, Andrew Tully, Callum Heck, Dan Turner, Brock Mc'nulty were apart of the victorious U15 met west side last year next year's eddies 1sts be the one's too watch...

 

[Jesus]

You've got to be kidding mate. 36 points? I think your forgetting one little thing here. Pats haven't won a game, Padua has. There's being bias then there's being ridiculous.

Some sort of hero? Obviously from Padua.

 

[xxxx]

Thanks Saecom for your very informative post, you certainly know your history of the comp.
Regarding the finals, I heard it ended due to a particular "physical/ blood bath" final between ASH and Iona late 80's (ash team included Eales),
I was also told that the 1st finals also cause dramas, with spectators from other schools not involved in the finals taking sides with one school and barracking against another school. which did not go over very well.
Saecom you know your history perhaps you can confirm this for me???
As for AIC playing league, Saecom is spot on, it would not help the image that AIC schools are trying to project.

 

[erossi93]

League was the original football code in the very early days of TAS (early 1950s). Then TAS went to rugby and then sometime in the late 70s or early 1980s they began admitting other schools until it became the two tier competition Blue (First Div) and Red (Second Div). Some schools (Ashgrove & St Laurences) fielded in both divisions and for a period there were finals in rugby. Certainly there were in the late 1980s as I remember in 1989 St Laurences went undefeated through the regular season and then won the major semi-final over Ashgrove only to have Ashgrove beat them in the Grand Final in a tryless game. I think they used to play all the way down too eg 1 v 2, 3 v 4, 5 v 6 etc. I am not sure why it disappeared but I think one of the issues was the number of fights and bad behaviour in these games. Also different ages played at different venues so the idea of "one whole school playing another whole school" did not happen during finals which many people (parents esp) did not like.

In 1996 or 1997 (?) the Heads of the current AIC schools broke away from TAS (as it had become a bit of a shambles with too many schools & co-ed etc etc) and set up AIC.

As for League I really can't see that happening anytime soon. League does not have a great image and I imagine Headmasters are very sensitive about this and keeping a point of difference between them and the local high school. Whether we like it or not running a school is a business and parents are paying for children to attend and thus schools are in competition with each other for enrolments. Like it or not Rugby carries with it a certain image (look at the GPS schools) and it is a good image for most schools re enrolments. As well as this you have the pressure from old boys many of whom would not want League at their old school.

I remember when Iona came into TAS and all the angst there at them playing rah-rah however I am pretty sure the Catholic schools league comp had become very violent and pretty much fallen apart. Iona want regular competition in a variety of sports and very quickly became competitive in Rugby. I think they won the TAS 1st XV outright in 1990 or 1991 (?). They had a couple of very dedicated & talented coaches who brought that enthusiasm to the players. Sounds like what is happening at St Edmunds now perhaps?

Padua is a similar story however they seem a bit more determined to hang on to the League connection through Confraternity ??

Anyway that is a quick history lesson for some of the younger readers ...

Very interesting Saecom. I believe that Iona and Padua back in the day used to be in that Catholic rugby league competition for many years and then they decided to join the TAS as well. Both these schools produced a healthy number of NRL players. And Padua has a similar history to Iona and they are still a strong rugby league school due to their relationship with the confraternity shield. They have been very successful in this competition and I believe that the headmaster of sport and the heads of the college would like to keep the rugby league scene at Padua due to the rich history. However, ever since they have entered the AIC, rugby union has become the main focus. And you could say the same with Iona and Eddies too. Eddies still competes in the Confraternity shield, however they aren't as big as Padua in the competition. I think they are focusing more on AIC rugby union these days.

 

[Saecom]

Thanks Saecom for your very informative post, you certainly know your history of the comp.
Regarding the finals, I heard it ended due to a particular "physical/ blood bath" final between ASH and Iona late 80's (ash team included Eales),
I was also told that the 1st finals also cause dramas, with spectators from other schools not involved in the finals taking sides with one school and barracking against another school. which did not go over very well.
Saecom you know your history perhaps you can confirm this for me???
As for AIC playing league, Saecom is spot on, it would not help the image that AIC schools are trying to project.

I don't know about the Iona / Ash "bloodbath". I think Eales finished school in 1987 but not totally sure? I know Ashgrove did not win the Premiership in the year he finished and that St Laurences were champions that year. I think this is also in his book?

Certainly I recall that finals did not bring out the best in spectators or players with many fights and much bad blood generated. You can imagine the game betwen 7th and 8th for example where both sides may feel they have nothing to lose and want to "be square". Another issue I think was where finals were played - as in neutral grounds etc. As per my earlier post one of the big issues was that if parents had boys in two age groups playing finals they were likely to be in two different venues and this was very unpopular. I doubt that finals have ever been considered by AIC sportsmasters or Headmasters.

From a rugby point of view (but perhaps not other sports) the best option in my opinion would be a two round home and away competition spread over terms 2 and 3. If the sports year was broken into only 2 seasons this would work. You could have summer (term 4 & 1) and winter (term 2 & 3) with home and away in all team sports. It would mean boys could play less sports but have more time at each.

So my take on this thread ... Finals = unlikely to return ..... League = can't see it ever happening ..

 

[erossi93]

Padua and Iona have played competitive sport against each other since the colleges were established in the 50's. So if anyone wants to find out anything about the catholic rugby league competition, just ask any old boy from these colleges from the 50's to around the 80's. I think Padua and Iona joined the TAS around the same time, and I think that was the 80's? On the topic of TAS, I reckon that there are still too many schools in that competition. I would like to see maybe another competition introduced so we could have a 4 tier competition happening in SEQ. So it would be GPS, AIC, TAS and another competition.

 

[erossi93]

I don't know about the Iona / Ash "bloodbath". I think Eales finished school in 1987 but not totally sure? I know Ashgrove did not win the Premiership in the year he finished and that St Laurences were champions that year. I think this is also in his book?

Certainly I recall that finals did not bring out the best in spectators or players with many fights and much bad blood generated. You can imagine the game betwen 7th and 8th for example where both sides may feel they have nothing to lose and want to "be square". Another issue I think was where finals were played - as in neutral grounds etc. As per my earlier post one of the big issues was that if parents had boys in two age groups playing finals they were likely to be in two different venues and this was very unpopular. I doubt that finals have ever been considered by AIC sportsmasters or Headmasters.

From a rugby point of view (but perhaps not other sports) the best option in my opinion would be a two round home and away competition spread over terms 2 and 3. If the sports year was broken into only 2 seasons this would work. You could have summer (term 4 & 1) and winter (term 2 & 3) with home and away in all team sports. It would mean boys could play less sports but have more time at each.

So my take on this thread ... Finals = unlikely to return ..... League = can't see it ever happening ..

Having up to 14 games for rugby in the season would allow the chance for some teams who have lost a few games, to gain momentum and come back to win a premiership. It would also take out the likelihood of tied premierships for sure. This system should be brought in sometime soon, however the AIC schools all need to agree on that. I would like to see maybe a best of the rest competition against AIC, GPS and TAS schools where the best 3 schools from each competition battle off in another set competition after the original seasons are over.

 

[Saecom]

Padua and Iona have played competitive sport against each other since the colleges were established in the 50's. So if anyone wants to find out anything about the catholic rugby league competition, just ask any old boy from these colleges from the 50's to around the 80's. I think Padua and Iona joined the TAS around the same time, and I think that was the 80's? On the topic of TAS, I reckon that there are still too many schools in that competition. I would like to see maybe another competition introduced so we could have a 4 tier competition happening in SEQ. So it would be GPS, AIC, TAS and another competition.

I recall that TAS became a mess in rugby. St Laurences and Ashgrove 3rd XVs (I think?) played as 1st XVs in the Red (second division) to get more games. I don't think they appreciated other schools 1st XVs in that competition claiming "victories" over them in newsletters or in the press always failing to mention they were actually playing 3rd XVs!! John Paul College had a "press officer" or something like that who would get stories such as this in the Courier Mail ...

Also if you won the Red Competition Aggregate - and I think Ashgrove may have at some stage (they were MUCH stronger in those days) - then you were promoted to the Blue (First div). So in theory you would have the Ashgrove 1st XV playing against the Ashgrove 3rd XV the following year ... as I said a mess.

 

[erossi93]

I recall that TAS became a mess in rugby. St Laurences and Ashgrove 3rd XVs (I think?) played as 1st XVs in the Red (second division) to get more games. I don't think they appreciated other schools 1st XVs in that competition claiming "victories" over them in newsletters or in the press always failing to mention they were actually playing 3rd XVs!! John Paul College had a "press officer" or something like that who would get stories such as this in the Courier Mail ...

Also if you won the Red Competition Aggregate - and I think Ashgrove may have at some stage (they were MUCH stronger in those days) - then you were promoted to the Blue (First div). So in theory you would have the Ashgrove 1st XV playing against the Ashgrove 3rd XV the following year ... as I said a mess.

Sounds like it was a competition dieing slowly and that's why the AIC was started. Does anyone have any history on how the AIC started? I know for a fact it was started in 1998 but who actually proposed it and what actually happened? Why were the current schools in the competition selected? Was it because they were the most competitive in the TAS competition at the time? Or was it because they were all fairly larger schools than the others in the TAS? Would be interesting to hear about it.

 

[Saecom]

Sounds like it was a competition dieing slowly and that's why the AIC was started. Does anyone have any history on how the AIC started? I know for a fact it was started in 1998 but who actually proposed it and what actually happened? Why were the current schools in the competition selected? Was it because they were the most competitive in the TAS competition at the time? Or was it because they were all fairly larger schools than the others in the TAS? Would be interesting to hear about it.

This is all second-hand and should not be relied upon in court .... but I was told ..

There was a history over several years in the 1990s where smaller schools in the TAS had the numbers in the vote and kept blocking or changing things their way in TAS sport. A small group of sportsmasters from the bigger schools got browned off with the whole TAS thing (not just rugby) and literally over a few beers thought "we could do better than this ..." I know a couple of these guys and they were very, very good operators. Before long they got a mutual proposal together (very, very quietly as this was like an IED!). They then approached each of their Headmasters at the same time roughly and "sold" it to them. The Headmasters got together (they always like to make it look like it was their idea!) and made some very quiet confidential approaches to the other Headmasters of schools they thought would be best suited (based on history, philosophy etc). I believe it was at this stage that Downlands was approached and they knocked back the invite. A bad move by them in the long term I think. I believe the original idea had been to have Downlands in to make 9 schools and "mirror" the GPS draws. That way the school with the bye in AIC could have had an extra game against the GPS "bye" school. Wouldn't that have been interesting?

The Headmasters then went to a TAS meeting and presented a fait complete as they resigned from TAS one by one. One mate told me it was like nuclear explosion as some the TAS schools realised
(a) they had not been included
(b) this had been organised behind their backs
(c) TAS would be very second rate without these bigger schools

Apparently a couple of the TAS Heads blew up big time (but no names from me!)

Subsequent to this the AIC sportsmasters got together and wrote by-laws and so on and AIC was created ...

More boring history for the young readers ...

 

[xxxx]

love your work Saecom, not boring at all.
Are you sitting in a large leather chair in a dark den surrounded by dusty books enjoying a glass of port as you write these post?

 

[Galloper]

This is all second-hand and should not be relied upon in court .... but I was told ..

There was a history over several years in the 1990s where smaller schools in the TAS had the numbers in the vote and kept blocking or changing things their way in TAS sport. A small group of sportsmasters from the bigger schools got browned off with the whole TAS thing (not just rugby) and literally over a few beers thought "we could do better than this ..." I know a couple of these guys and they were very, very good operators. Before long they got a mutual proposal together (very, very quietly as this was like an IED!). They then approached each of their Headmasters at the same time roughly and "sold" it to them. The Headmasters got together (they always like to make it look like it was their idea!) and made some very quiet confidential approaches to the other Headmasters of schools they thought would be best suited (based on history, philosophy etc). I believe it was at this stage that Downlands was approached and they knocked back the invite. A bad move by them in the long term I think. I believe the original idea had been to have Downlands in to make 9 schools and "mirror" the GPS draws. That way the school with the bye in AIC could have had an extra game against the GPS "bye" school. Wouldn't that have been interesting?

The Headmasters then went to a TAS meeting and presented a fait complete as they resigned from TAS one by one. One mate told me it was like nuclear explosion as some the TAS schools realised
(a) they had not been included
(b) this had been organised behind their backs
(c) TAS would be very second rate without these bigger schools

Apparently a couple of the TAS Heads blew up big time (but no names from me!)

Subsequent to this the AIC sportsmasters got together and wrote by-laws and so on and AIC was created ...

More boring history for the young readers ...

Great summary Saecom, that is pretty much spot-on from what I have been told over the years.

Effectively, the new TAS"Red" schools, led by John Paul, started running TAS sport their way because they had the numbers over the established TAS schools like Ash, SLC, Villa etc, hence the formation of the AIC. This also coincided to some extent with the demise of long-time TAS schools like St Columbans (which was a good rugby school for many years and actually won the premiership at Banyo in 1977 when Ash missed a conversion from in front of the posts after the bell) and Rosalie, with St Pauls fading away as well for some reason (although they produced a few Wallabies like Ben Tune and Troy Coker).

AIC seems a much stronger comp than TAS was at the time of the split, but it is a pity that Downlands didn't come on board.

And Saecom, yes Eales did finish in 87 when he captained Ash to a loss in the GF at Villa Park, from memory Brendan Cannon played No. 8 and captained Lauries to a 10-0 victory in front of a big and very pro-SLC (or perhaps more accurately anti-Ash) crowd.

 

[Saecom]

love your work Saecom, not boring at all.
Are you sitting in a large leather chair in a dark den surrounded by dusty books enjoying a glass of port as you write these post?

Yes yes ... old farts like me are a dime a dozen I guess !! Got a lot more stories I could tell but have to consult my lawyers first ..

 

[Saecom]

Great summary Saecom, that is pretty much spot-on from what I have been told over the years.

Effectively, the new TAS"Red" schools, led by John Paul, started running TAS sport their way because they had the numbers over the established TAS schools like Ash, SLC, Villa etc, hence the formation of the AIC. This also coincided to some extent with the demise of long-time TAS schools like St Columbans (which was a good rugby school for many years and actually won the premiership at Banyo in 1977 when Ash missed a conversion from in front of the posts after the bell) and Rosalie, with St Pauls fading away as well for some reason (although they produced a few Wallabies like Ben Tune and Troy Coker).

AIC seems a much stronger comp than TAS was at the time of the split, but it is a pity that Downlands didn't come on board.

And Saecom, yes Eales did finish in 87 when he captained Ash to a loss in the GF at Villa Park, from memory Brendan Cannon played No. 8 and captained Lauries to a 10-0 victory in front of a big and very pro-SLC (or perhaps more accurately anti-Ash) crowd.

Yes I was there and remember that ... though I was not sure if Eales was cpatain of Ashgrove (but I am sure you would know) ... Cannon was a wonderful schoolboy player of course and that was a very good St Laurences team ...

I also remember in 1989 (I checked - as per my previous post) when Ashgrove defeated St Laurences 12-6 to win the GF at Ashgrove. St Laurences had beaten them twice during the year (in the Rounds & in the Major Semi) but Ashgrove defended like demons in a tryless game. I think it was their flyhalf it kicked an incredible 45m field goal to put them in front. That win was popular with the Ashgrove crown but not so much with anyone else ...

 

[xxxx]

Yes I was there and remember that ... though I was not sure if Eales was cpatain of Ashgrove (but I am sure you would know) ... Cannon was a wonderful schoolboy player of course and that was a very good St Laurences team ...

I also remember in 1989 (I checked - as per my previous post) when Ashgrove defeated St Laurences 12-6 to win the GF at Ashgrove. St Laurences had beaten them twice during the year (in the Rounds & in the Major Semi) but Ashgrove defended like demons in a tryless game. I think it was their flyhalf it kicked an incredible 45m field goal to put them in front. That win was popular with the Ashgrove crown but not so much with anyone else ...

So has there ever been Grand Finals in the AIC comp?
Was it only in the TAS comp therefore I guess the last one would had been 1996 does that sound correct?
Does the Tas comp still have Grand finals?

 

[Galloper]

Yes I was there and remember that ... though I was not sure if Eales was cpatain of Ashgrove (but I am sure you would know) ... Cannon was a wonderful schoolboy player of course and that was a very good St Laurences team ...

I also remember in 1989 (I checked - as per my previous post) when Ashgrove defeated St Laurences 12-6 to win the GF at Ashgrove. St Laurences had beaten them twice during the year (in the Rounds & in the Major Semi) but Ashgrove defended like demons in a tryless game. I think it was their flyhalf it kicked an incredible 45m field goal to put them in front. That win was popular with the Ashgrove crown but not so much with anyone else ...

If it's the game I'm thinking of the 10's name was Pat Devery, played Qld Schools that year but didn't go on with it.

Kicked it from the 10 metre line about 5 metres in from touch, best FG I've seen at schoolboy level particularly given the circumstances.

 

[erossi93]

This is all second-hand and should not be relied upon in court .... but I was told ..

There was a history over several years in the 1990s where smaller schools in the TAS had the numbers in the vote and kept blocking or changing things their way in TAS sport. A small group of sportsmasters from the bigger schools got browned off with the whole TAS thing (not just rugby) and literally over a few beers thought "we could do better than this ..." I know a couple of these guys and they were very, very good operators. Before long they got a mutual proposal together (very, very quietly as this was like an IED!). They then approached each of their Headmasters at the same time roughly and "sold" it to them. The Headmasters got together (they always like to make it look like it was their idea!) and made some very quiet confidential approaches to the other Headmasters of schools they thought would be best suited (based on history, philosophy etc). I believe it was at this stage that Downlands was approached and they knocked back the invite. A bad move by them in the long term I think. I believe the original idea had been to have Downlands in to make 9 schools and "mirror" the GPS draws. That way the school with the bye in AIC could have had an extra game against the GPS "bye" school. Wouldn't that have been interesting?

The Headmasters then went to a TAS meeting and presented a fait complete as they resigned from TAS one by one. One mate told me it was like nuclear explosion as some the TAS schools realised
(a) they had not been included
(b) this had been organised behind their backs
(c) TAS would be very second rate without these bigger schools

Apparently a couple of the TAS Heads blew up big time (but no names from me!)

Subsequent to this the AIC sportsmasters got together and wrote by-laws and so on and AIC was created ...

More boring history for the young readers ...

Wow, hearing this makes me wonder what if we actually had Downlands in the competition and we had the bye round to verse the GPS schools. It would be very interesting and I reckon some AIC schools would give the GPS schools a run for their money. The AIC heads should really consider asking Downlands to join so that this bye round with the GPS can happen! I would love to see Marist Vs. Nudgee, IGS Vs. Eddies, Terrace Vs. Lauries, Villa Vs. Churchie and St Peters Vs. BBC for example. Local schools from both competitions versing each other would definitely produce better footy and more rivalry!

 

[Saecom]

If it's the game I'm thinking of the 10's name was Pat Devery, played Qld Schools that year but didn't go on with it.

Kicked it from the 10 metre line about 5 metres in from touch, best FG I've seen at schoolboy level particularly given the circumstances.

I will take your word for it on the guy's name - it was an incredible kick - as good as anything you would see at ANY level of the game really ... he was a pretty neat player from memory. They were two very good teams going toe to toe though like most finals, defence was more prominent than attack (which is the opposite of most good schoolboy rugby).

I guess though the issue for some people (at the time) was that St Laurences were arguably the better team (2 wins) but were not ultimately Premiers due to finals and losing 1 game. Stuff like that put people off Finals for schoolboys ...

And in reply to XXXX .. to my knowledge AIC has never had finals .... I have no idea if TAS has finals ...

Now where did I leave my spectacles, pipe and slippers ....

 

[Saecom]

Wow, hearing this makes me wonder what if we actually had Downlands in the competition and we had the bye round to verse the GPS schools. It would be very interesting and I reckon some AIC schools would give the GPS schools a run for their money. The AIC heads should really consider asking Downlands to join so that this bye round with the GPS can happen! I would love to see Marist Vs. Nudgee, IGS Vs. Eddies, Terrace Vs. Lauries, Villa Vs. Churchie and St Peters Vs. BBC for example. Local schools from both competitions versing each other would definitely produce better footy and more rivalry!

While I am on a roll I will respond to this one too! ...

I would very much doubt the AIC Headmasters would ask Downlands to join AIC ... it would be up to Downlands to come to the AIC and request membership. There is a lot of pride and image at stake at that level. I don't know what conditions the AIC Headmasters have on admission of another school? They would not want the TAS experience all over again..

I think one of the reasons Downlands may have decided NOT to join AIC in 1997 or 8 may have been that they thought they got more prestige out of playing GPS schools even if it was on their bye. I think since then however many GPS schools choose not to play Downlands with all teams or run their 2nds against them so this has backfired on Downlands maybe?

You also have to bear in mind that the GPS draw and AIC draw would vary from year to year so it wouldn't always be the same schools matched up on their byes?

AND some GPS schools might choose not to take up this bye option as the risk in lost reputation to them should they lose to an AIC school would be a big deal to some of them I think?

Never as simple as it seems this schoolboy politics ..

 

[erossi93]

While I am on a roll I will respond to this one too! ...

I would very much doubt the AIC Headmasters would ask Downlands to join AIC ... it would be up to Downlands to come to the AIC and request membership. There is a lot of pride and image at stake at that level. I don't know what conditions the AIC Headmasters have on admission of another school? They would not want the TAS experience all over again..

I think one of the reasons Downlands may have decided NOT to join AIC in 1997 or 8 may have been that they thought they got more prestige out of playing GPS schools even if it was on their bye. I think since then however many GPS schools choose not to play Downlands with all teams or run their 2nds against them so this has backfired on Downlands maybe?

You also have to bear in mind that the GPS draw and AIC draw would vary from year to year so it wouldn't always be the same schools matched up on their byes?

AND some GPS schools might choose not to take up this bye option as the risk in lost reputation to them should they lose to an AIC school would be a big deal to some of them I think?

Never as simple as it seems this schoolboy politics ..

That is very true Saecom. But it would be very interesting to see it happen. Do you know what ever happened with the Marist trial to join the GPS? Did it ever appear to be happening or did it just become rumours? Marist back in the TAS years and probably the 1998-2007 years of AIC would of been very competitive in the GPS competition.