ARU Junior Gold Cup - National Junior Championships

[Quick Hands]

At our very recent club End of Season Preso, which was well attended by a large number of juniors and all the minis, plus all their parents, the JGC was spoken of as the Pathway to the Wallabies (more or less) and players at our particular Club and Association were 'named' as having been in the 2013/2014 15s or 17s squads to much fanfare.

There were a lot of parents and wide-eyed little boys taking all this in and it was clear that this is a direct pathway to elite rugby union within the ARU.
In my area there are a lot of private school boys who play club, and may give up club in time as private school takes over, so letting the parents and boys know of this existence of this early on (when they are mini or young juniors) is definitely the way to go IMO.

I think as we move forward that many boys will play rugby at school and JGC and give club and district rugby a miss once they hit 15. I know of a couple of boys who do this already.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I think that there is still a missing link at U19's level. I think that we should have a two year development programme to select and prepare our players for Jnr RWC rather than the current arrangement which seems to focus on the forthcoming tournament only. Credit where it is due, this years preparation for the Under 20's was a huge step up on the previous few years efforts.

JGC covers U15 and U17 level. Aust Schoolboys (and the National Schoolboys tournament) covers U18's.

It is a big step up to the Under 20's (Jnr RWC), and lots of things change once kids leave the somewhat sheltered environment of the Schoolboy system.

NZ have an U19 carnival, seemingly ITM cup team based. I can see the use of this to track the form of last years Schoolboy rockstars, and also showcase any diamonds unearthed in their first year of Colts.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11329528

I think our pathway may still be a little too "incenstuous" and insular in the vital first couple of years post school.
There seems to be an ad-hoc arrangement of training squads being assembled by the Super Franchises, the NRC franchises, with the various State U20 Bodies "sniffing" around, and the ARU HPU staff as well seem to have a little too much skin in the process. I'm not entirely sure that the Koala Club (AKA NGS/NTS) has been disbanded.

Going back to the NZ example (and I know it is a religion over there), Google suggests that they seem to have a reasonably clear development path (mostly province based) with tournaments at key age groups running parallel to the 1st XV competitions up to the Under 19's level. Selection Politics is probably just a big an issue over there as it is here, although there doesn't seem to be any mention of any "elite development squad", the existence of which seems to have been a rather divisive factor in Aus junior player development.

Getting back to topic. I hope that the 2014 JGC programme implements the lessons from their inaugural go, but I feel that they need to be a little more aligned with premier Clubs/Districts/Zones and/or the NRC franchises.

 

[Quick Hands]

^^^^One thing that I think is still a little unclear with the JGC is; is it a rep team i.e. you pick your best squad of 23 or is it development based i.e. you might pick some players who aren't necessarily in the best 23 but have received little coaching and have the necessary attributes to be better than boys who would make the "best" 23. Bearing in mind that all selections are highly subjective, but I think it's important to think beyond the present and identify the future.

As an example, Wyclif Palu didn't play any junior rugby and his first games were with colts. To my mind, that's one of the things that JGC should be about - attracting these type of boys to the game, rather than just putting on another level for the same kids. (I expect to be howled down for this heresy)

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I think the intent of the JCG programme is to try to do both. Develop a stack of kids int he age group over the summer months, and then pick the best 23 of those to compete in the Cup tournament.

This is a difficult balancing task, and there will always be tantrums from parents who believe that their Samuel is much better than he actually is.

On a slightly different tack, It would be nice to see some targeting and development of U15 and U17 girls rugby players, probably focused on Rugby 7's initially.

 

[Quick Hands]

^^^We need to be getting as many people into the rugby tent as possible, be they male or female or from a rugby or non-rugby background. The more players we have at the base, the more good players we have for the pointy bit at the top.

IMO 7s should be a major focus - I believe that most rugby people haven't yet realised the significance of being an olympic sport and what a huge opportunity it is for us. I hope it's not (another) opportunity that we let go by.

 

[S'UP]

If the JGC ever communicate anything we might know what the program is about this year. Once you tell a coach it is about a competition then development goes out the window. If they have 30 player squads this year there should be 4 games a day 1st 15 and 2nd 15 with player backing up as reserves. At least this way the 2nd 15 will get an opportunity to actually play unlike last year were boys played a total of 30 minutes in the 6 games.

 

[Quick Hands]

At least this way the 2nd 15 will get an opportunity to actually play unlike last year were boys played a total of 30 minutes in the 6 games.

Which suggests to me that it is viewed (at least by some coaches) as a competition model, rather than a player development model. Otherwise you would rotate players equally through the squad (subject to injuries and positional requirements). I wouldn't imagine that too much development would occur if boys only received 30 mins out of 6 hours of rugby.

 

[Brainstrust]

Which suggests to me that it is viewed (at least by some coaches) as a competition model, rather than a player development model. Otherwise you would rotate players equally through the squad (subject to injuries and positional requirements). I wouldn't imagine that too much development would occur if boys only received 30 mins out of 6 hours of rugby.

I can suggest that the ARU and selectors saw last years JGC program as a development opportunity, however many coaches saw it exactly as a competition model, which I guess is only natural for them. I,m not sure if there were any game time and starting opportunity rules imposed on the coaches, but I would say if you paid your $ hard earned and got 30 mins over 6 hours you wouldn't be signing up for the next grab at your wallet.

 

[Quick Hands]

I can suggest that the ARU and selectors saw last years JGC program as a development opportunity, however many coaches saw it exactly as a competition model, which I guess is only natural for them. I,m not sure if there were any game time and starting opportunity rules imposed on the coaches, but I would say if you paid your $ hard earned and got 30 mins over 6 hours you wouldn't be signing up for the next grab at your wallet.

I think that you are right. If the ARU want it as a development model, perhaps some coaches need the odd tap on the shoulder from time to time to remind them.

 

[Oldschool]

I agree development is one of the main goals with the program. I believe a squad between 25 to 30 is required. The majority of these kids are talented athletes, and rugby is but one sport they are doing over the summer. Coaches have to attend with no shows due to rowing regatta's, athletic meet's etc. and them generally being teenagers. I thought the competition component has been brought in to spice things up for the boys, rather than just training 3 hours during the week. While I feel for the boys that don't get as much game time as some of the others, they are learning, and understanding what it means about competition for spots, ie give it 100% or you could be riding the pine.

 

[Chris Green]

Earth calling QRU, come in QRU.....I think they're on the dark side of the moon as there's nothing but static.

Any news on Qld JGC yet ??

 

[Oldschool]

Any news on Qld JGC yet ??

Is the Pope Muslim?

 

[Chris Green]

Is the Pope Muslim?

I think he is, but only on the Dark side of the moon perhaps

 

[S'UP]

I agree development is one of the main goals with the program. I believe a squad between 25 to 30 is required. The majority of these kids are talented athletes, and rugby is but one sport they are doing over the summer. Coaches have to attend with no shows due to rowing regatta's, athletic meet's etc. and them generally being teenagers. I thought the competition component has been brought in to spice things up for the boys, rather than just training 3 hours during the week. While I feel for the boys that don't get as much game time as some of the others, they are learning, and understanding what it means about competition for spots, ie give it 100% or you could be riding the pine.

Unfortunately because the coaches treated it as a competition in the weeks leading up to and including the actual games, the lesser players (sorry only term i could think of) just run obstruction at training as the (so called) better players concentrated on game play. Hence my 1st 15, 2nd 15 comment above, games for all.

 

[Quick Hands]

I agree development is one of the main goals with the program. I believe a squad between 25 to 30 is required. The majority of these kids are talented athletes, and rugby is but one sport they are doing over the summer. Coaches have to attend with no shows due to rowing regatta's, athletic meet's etc. and them generally being teenagers. I thought the competition component has been brought in to spice things up for the boys, rather than just training 3 hours during the week. While I feel for the boys that don't get as much game time as some of the others, they are learning, and understanding what it means about competition for spots, ie give it 100% or you could be riding the pine.

If the JGC is a competition model, I agree with you 100%. However, if it is a development model, there's not much development going on "riding the pine". If we're about upskilling as many players as possible, then it has to include meaningful game time so that we can see what they can achieve in a real situation.

 

[I like to watch]

More than that,it is not acceptable to expect a kid to train twice a week over summer,and not give him any game time unless it suits the coach.

 

[Oldschool]

More than that,it is not acceptable to expect a kid to train twice a week over summer,and not give him any game time unless it suits the coach.

They didn't used to get any games. the competition was a new addition last year to give the boys meaning to their training.
This is meant to be an elite pathway ie a step above club. Not a try before you buy. Yes, there's going to be new talent exposed that are completely new to the game and they'll grab it with both hands, but lets not be to PC about this. Kids, once they reach 15 + know all about competition, and its generally the parents that need to come to grips with this point. Just look at the GPS threads. From what I saw last season, coaches tried to involve all players and gave them "work ons" to improve their games. Now there will be one or two that fall between the net, but that's reality.

 

[S'UP]

They didn't used to get any games. the competition was a new addition last year to give the boys meaning to their training.
This is meant to be an elite pathway ie a step above club. Not a try before you buy. Yes, there's going to be new talent exposed that are completely new to the game and they'll grab it with both hands, but lets not be to PC about this. Kids, once they reach 15 + know all about competition, and its generally the parents that need to come to grips with this point. Just look at the GPS threads. From what I saw last season, coaches tried to involve all players and gave them "work ons" to improve their games. Now there will be one or two that fall between the net, but that's reality.

I'm sorry I think that is rubbish, see below from the ARU website plenty of development mentioned and elite mentioned once and that was in relation to training not players. Unfortunately what was promised to people didn't happen, it may have happened at your centre but it didn't happen at the two I was involved in. One centre I must admit was better than the other, my son certainly came away very fit, therefore the elite training was good. Yes all the kids know about competition but this wasn't sold to them as a competition it was sold as a development pathway and learning what is was like to be an elite player, the competition made it something else. You cannot compare it to school rugby, at school you get picked in 1st, 2nd, 6ths or whereever and you get to play, do you think little johnny would be happy to be picked in the 5ths and play 30 minutes of rugby in 6 hours, I'm guessing he wouldn't. People paid $660 for their kids to be hit shields for the so called elite players in the group, that is just plain wrong.

The Junior Gold Cup (JGC) is a national long term talent development and competition program at U15 and U17 age levels. It provides players, coaches, administrators and match officials the opportunity to be involved in high levels of representative rugby programming and development at a National level on an annual basis whilst maintaining local/regional representation.

The NSW Junior Gold objectives are:

• To identify and develop rugby players, coaches and managers in NSW
• To provide the opportunity for players, coaches and managers to participate in a Nationally run competition
• To develop and promote partnerships with the local community
• To provide an elite training program for U15 and U17 boys
• To facilitate a development program in a cost-effective manner
  

 

[I like to watch]

They didn't used to get any games. the competition was a new addition last year to give the boys meaning to their training.
This is meant to be an elite pathway ie a step above club. Not a try before you buy. Yes, there's going to be new talent exposed that are completely new to the game and they'll grab it with both hands, but lets not be to PC about this. Kids, once they reach 15 + know all about competition, and its generally the parents that need to come to grips with this point. Just look at the GPS threads. From what I saw last season, coaches tried to involve all players and gave them "work ons" to improve their games. Now there will be one or two that fall between the net, but that's reality.

You have got to be kidding.
That might be acceptable if the participants were paid for their time,but the reverse is true.
Anyone who trained a kid all Summer and didn't give him a run,isn't fit to be training kids.

 

[Quick Hands]

They didn't used to get any games. the competition was a new addition last year to give the boys meaning to their training.
This is meant to be an elite pathway ie a step above club. Not a try before you buy. Yes, there's going to be new talent exposed that are completely new to the game and they'll grab it with both hands, but lets not be to PC about this. Kids, once they reach 15 + know all about competition, and its generally the parents that need to come to grips with this point. Just look at the GPS threads. From what I saw last season, coaches tried to involve all players and gave them "work ons" to improve their games. Now there will be one or two that fall between the net, but that's reality.

It's not a matter of being PC, it's a matter of developing the maximum number of players. Development means taking a long term view, not necessarily worrying about whether or not the teams win by 5 or loses by 5 next Saturday. That's the short term view and it's one reason why players aren't developed properly. I think many people would be pleasantly surprised by how many boys will lift to the required standard if they've been coached properly and if they actually make it on to the field.