ARU Junior Gold Cup - National Junior Championships

[Man on the hill]

playing is as grey a requirement as any other mechanism to measure involvement you may want to nominate - the game sheet does not record minutes of game time, it merely records attendance not actual participation.

Is any opposition manager really going to know or care? If a kid signs on for another? If a kid signs on that hasn't even bothered to change for the game?

Let's face it - the sign on sheet is an honour tool, and too many on this thread have suggested that in the race for a different sort of signature, honour, like innocence in war, is an unfortunate casualty here.

 

[Shane Smeltz]

How does one 'trial' for this Gold Squad?
If you play club and are the right age (14 or 16) can you just turn up to a trial - how do you know when and where the trials are on?
Do you have to play in a A or B grade club team though?
Or are you 'invited' to trial?
Thanks

 

[S'UP]

How does one 'trial' for this Gold Squad?
If you play club and are the right age (14 or 16) can you just turn up to a trial - how do you know when and where the trials are on?
Do you have to play in a A or B grade club team though?
Or are you 'invited' to trial?
Thanks

Last year was the first year they had trials for the JGS, the process was you were invited at 15's after being scouted at the 14's State cup or at school level, then every year the squad was invited back and a few new faces added and some old ones didn't get invited back. The trial last year was open to all, the boys invited back didn't have to take part in the trial.
I would expect the boys in the squad last year will receive an invitation to trial if you boy wasn't in the squad last year I would look at the follow link http://www.rugby.com.au/tryrugby/KidsRugby.aspx and watch the Pathway to Gold box closely this same area had the invatation to trial. But i could be wrong

 

[Hugh Jarse]

^^ Sounds a bit hit and miss.

If little Johnny was injured or did not attend U14 State Cup then he is off the radar.

Legit Reasons not to be at State Cup:
- Don't play Club rugby
- Injured
- Come from a big district and there was a better kid selected, but better than other district players in the same position.
- did not play enough club games to qualify

If Little Johnny is not at a big rugby School, and missed on State Cup then he is off the radar.
- Johnny may not play club due to clashes with school footy with one of the non favoured ISA Div 2 teams - Chev, Redlands, etc.
- How many Scouts watch <insert "unfavoured" ISA Div 2 School name> U14 play another <insert "unfavoured" ISA Div 2 School name> U14 matches?

Little Johnny may be a regional player in the Bush with no handy club, or regular school competition to be scouted at.

Poor Little Johnny will be off the radar.

Expecting Little Johnny to be waiting with baited breath to see an invitation to trial pop up on the ARU Pathway to Gold section of their Website. As they say in Tui Beer Billboards - "Yeah Right".

Little Johnny may actually be a decent sort of rugby player but for a variety of reasonably legitimate reasons he may miss out on the opportunity to participate in the JGC pathway.

 

[S'UP]

^^ Sounds a bit hit and miss.

If little Johnny was injured or did not attend U14 State Cup then he is off the radar.

Legit Reasons not to be at State Cup:
- Don't play Club rugby
- Injured
- Come from a big district and there was a better kid selected, but better than other district players in the same position.
- did not play enough club games to qualify

If Little Johnny is not at a big rugby School, and missed on State Cup then he is off the radar.
- Johnny may not play club due to clashes with school footy with one of the non favoured ISA Div 2 teams - Chev, Redlands, etc.
- How many Scouts watch <insert "unfavoured" ISA Div 2 School name> U14 play another <insert "unfavoured" ISA Div 2 School name> U14 matches?

Little Johnny may be a regional player in the Bush with no handy club, or regular school competition to be scouted at.

Poor Little Johnny will be off the radar.

Expecting Little Johnny to be waiting with baited breath to see an invitation to trial pop up on the ARU Pathway to Gold section of their Website. As they say in Tui Beer Billboards - "Yeah Right".

Little Johnny may actually be a decent sort of rugby player but for a variety of reasonably legitimate reasons he may miss out on the opportunity to participate in the JGC pathway.

I agree little Johnny has a greater chance if he plays at a AAGPS or State Sports high. He has significantly less chance if he only plays club or isn't a stand out at the 14's state cup. Process got a bit better last year with some new scouts actually watching a couple of club games. I know they use a yes, no, maybe approach and from experience they only watch the boys they know, once you apply to trial if you are unknow or unseen you are behind anyone else who has already been sighted. so little Johnny misses out.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Funny thing is that many parents do not put too much emphasis on Little Johnny gaining the requisite "rugby" education and exposure by ensuring that he attends a AAGPS, CAS, Sports High School, or Div 1 ISA School.

Some parents actually believe that Schools exist to educate their child.

 

[S'UP]

Nnnoooooo what are they thinking.

don't they get that exposure at club level?

Some representative selection would suggest they don't regardless of their talent.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

Maybe it is the optimist in me, but this proposal could be just what Heavensgame needs at the junior pathway needs.

There are a few too many unanswered questions ATM before it gets the big thumbs up from me.

There seems to be a gap about the integration with the Schools (assumed) development model/pathway at Under 16 and Under 18, as well as the integration into the Colts (for the "normal" players) and academies (for the "elite" players).

What also hasn't really been publicly announced is what is to become of the myriad of competition organising committees and subcommittees such as NSW Schools, NSW JRU, Aust JRU, Sydney JRU, NSW Cntry JRU (and equivalent organisations in QLD and other states.

There could be some serious rearguard actions fought to retain the status quo from some of these affiliated bodies.

 

[lily]

The ARU in their wisdom seem to think that advertising these positions as voluntary will somehow lead to a stampede. FFS what are those idiots thinking. Yes they will get some young enthusiastic wanna be career coaches applying. Do they have the experience and knowledge? Probably not.
This is another problem with a lot of colts coaching. One of my first coaching roles was with Colts. I'll admit I was out of my depth and only doing it to help a mate out. I've since completed the required courses including my Level 2. There is no way in hell after doing all this work and analysis that I would work for those pricks for free.
I'm sure this would be the same view of the majority of qualified coaches who do not have the time or the desire to be involved with the Legendary ARU development staff. When I say legendary and if you cant read between the lines it's not a compliment.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

A couple of coaches I know that would be ideal for this gig have told me that they have no intention of applying.

"Pay peanuts, get monkeys" springs to mind, and like lily, I fear that the programme may not achieve its full potential because of the quality of the "unpaid interns" that will be recruited as coaches.

There is ample evidence confirming that the biggest influence on education is the quality of the teacher, not the quality of the school. Students taught by poor teachers in the best schools are constantly outperformed by students taught by great teachers from the worst schools. Fortunately for those paying full fees at certain schools, many of the "better" schools attract and retain good teachers, but they do not have the market cornered.

This programme requires the best coaching support, not the cheapest.

 

[Rugby Mum]

A couple of coaches I know that would be ideal for this gig have told me that they have no intention of applying.

"Pay peanuts, get monkeys" springs to mind, and like lily, I fear that the programme may not achieve its full potential because of the quality of the "unpaid interns" that will be recruited as coaches.

There is ample evidence confirming that the biggest influence on education is the quality of the teacher, not the quality of the school. Students taught by poor teachers in the best schools are constantly outperformed by students taught by great teachers from the worst schools. Fortunately for those paying full fees at certain schools, many of the "better" schools attract and retain good teachers, but they do not have the market cornered.

This programme requires the best coaching support, not the cheapest.

The requirements stated Level 3. Few and far between available to
Find a training venue
Coach two to three times a week in a central area
Seek out sponsors to assist fund the program ( Need to come up with 10,000)

Would it not make sense to get the ARU development Managers to take on these roles as they have the required qualifications, aware of the best for the program, and are responsible for developing rugby in the junior years. What a great way to get it up and running. Just a wild idea.....



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[Hugh Jarse]

Summary of off line discussions with some relatively well connected people in recent days. Things are not well in junior clubland by the sounds of things, and plenty of ploitics being played ( no real change or surprises there).

Sydney Juniors are not entirely united behind the proposal, but the clubs have been told that it will be happening so best to get on board and try to make it work.

NSW Country Juniors will not be changing anything as a result. Country folk are up for about $1k for the country rep programme, and $600 for the JGP if they want to do both.

Queensland JRU is in disarray.

Australian JRU are away with the fairies, no effective communications with anyone. There will be no Australian Junior champs this year with nothing happening in ACT over the October Long Weekend.

Everyone is taking a wait and see approach to the Junior Gold Cup, with seemingly very little proactivity from Junior Clubland.

Lots of confusion about how the JGC will actually work, especially nominations and/or trials.

Apparently nominations for the JGC will be via a web site and be open for the month of October.

Very Heath Robinson. Plus ça change plus c’est la même chose.

C'mon rugby administration folk, can't we get it together once?

 

[S'UP]

Nomination form came out last week from SJRU, no explanation as to what it is all about, what it cost etc just a nomination form.
Looks very professional to me. NOT

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Nomination form came out last week from SJRU, no explanation as to what it is all about, what it cost etc just a nomination form.
Looks very professional to me. NOT

Nomination for?

 

[S'UP]

Nomination for?

Junior Gold Cup

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Junior Gold Cup

Do the schools get asked to nominate as I understand they were under JGP?

 

[S'UP]

Do the schools get asked to nominate as I understand they were under JGP?

The form which arrived by email asked for name etc, strengths, areas for improvement, playing experience (club, school, rep) there was also a area of nominated by and reasons.
I don't know if the schools have received them but the last area would suggest they would. But the JGC is only open to players registered to a village club so why would schools receive the form.
The email I received was sent to all SJRU 15's strangely we didn't receive an email to my other son in the 16's even though the 16's fit in the birth date range the JGC is working under.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

The JGC seems to be an attempt to improve the lot of Junior Clubland and to provide a more structured pathway separate to the 15A, 16A, 1st XV one provided in the "Big" rugby school associations.

One of the outcomes from this initiative seems to be to try and get (or keep) kids into the Junior clubs, rather than develop kids who will already be receiving "advanced" development through the individual schools "A' pathway.

I can see why they may not want to sent a mass mail out to some schools.

Most of the stuff on the form that S'UP has mentioned above sounds like they have just rehashed previous years JGS nomination forms.

If too many players from AAGPS, ISA and CAS register for this then it may not achieve the intent of channelling kids into Junior Club Footy.

 

[S'UP]

The JGC seems to be an attempt to improve the lot of Junior Clubland and to provide a more structured pathway separate to the 15A, 16A, 1st XV one provided in the "Big" rugby school associations.

One of the outcomes from this initiative seems to be to try and get (or keep) kids into the Junior clubs, rather than develop kids who will already be receiving "advanced" development through the individual schools "A' pathway.

I can see why they may not want to sent a mass mail out to some schools.

Most of the stuff on the form that S'UP has mentioned above sounds like they have just rehashed previous years JGS nomination forms.

If too many players from AAGPS, ISA and CAS register for this then it may not achieve the intent of channelling kids into Junior Club Footy.

I couldn't agree more, Clubland is dying and the kids need something to keep them in the game hopefully this is it.

 

[LucyPomPom]

Nomination form came out last week from SJRU, no explanation as to what it is all about, what it cost etc just a nomination form.
Looks very professional to me. NOT

Where can we get more info about the JGC? We received the same as everyone else - an email from SJRU with a form to nominate players. Nothing else. Only after a bit of digging did I discover it would cost $660 each and we have two 15 year olds who are eligible! Anyone know if its only open to A grade players? Would or boys be wasting their time even trialling if they're in the second grade? Just wondering....