ARU take over the Western Force.

[Train Without a Station]

Baa baa agreed. That's why I said it's probably more reflective of the value they offer.

Part of the reason that these franchises are struggling is they have not received what they truly bring in.

That being said, no code's clubs do. And it must be considered the impact the wallabies and Australian rugby structure have on super rugby.

But going forward they should see a bigger share. I would have said $3M per team but after pledging $5M more for community rugby, there's only $10M left and they need to top up the coffers in preparation of RWC year losses.

 

[Quick Hands]

And that kind of reinforces my point about letting Michael Foley make important decisions about rugby related matters.

The football programme is exactly where the ARU need to insist on changes - starting with the head coach.

 

[barbarian]

This is something I've discussed with RUPA - it's real.

I have no doubt that people don't want to travel over to Perth to play for the Force.

But I watch all of these guys in Club and NRC footy, the players you are referring to - they aren't hidden away in a warehouse somewhere. There are a few bench guys and squaddies who aren't getting the run they deserve at the moment, but only a few.

It's an argument in favour of moving the side, no doubt. But like all of the arguments I don't think it's a knockout.
.

 

[Sully]

That's the sad part about it. The guy is a really good forwards coach. He'd be the only Australian born guy that I would let near the Wallaby scrum.

The problem is, he's not a head coach's little finger at the professional level.

Really? You wouldn't let Styles or Fisher near the Aussie scrum?

Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk

 

[Train Without a Station]

I'm intrigued about these "warehoused" players.

Are they good enough and just pass up the opportunity and slog away in club rugby for years, rather than go to the Force?

Or are they more so people in my boat? Have a decent career where they already earn more than they would in super rugby and relocating, or the demands of a full time contract would jeapordize that?

Lucky for me, the Rebels aren't recruiting flanker/hookers out of Melbourne 2nd grade so I haven't needed to make that choice.

But if it's along these lines, well every state has these players. Not every bloke who plays rugby is an airhead with no career prospects.

 

[qwerty51]

Don't need to let anyone but Mario near the scrum, he's signed up.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Really? You wouldn't let Styles or Fisher near the Aussie scrum?

Sent from my D5833 using Tapatalk

Maybe Stiles too

 

[Strewthcobber]

An aside- the talk of Super teams being 'bailed out' by TV money is a bit misleading. The TV rights money mainly belongs to the Super sides. It's rightly theirs.

The money has been made off the back of Super Rugby being an attractive TV product around the World. So it's weird we see ARU grants from TV rights money as some sort of charity payment, when in fact it's come directly from the rugby played by Super sides.
.

I winder about that. The Wallaby games + TRC draw more eyeballs. 3 Bled games alone would go close to having as many viewers here as all of the Super tourny.

Of course there's no Wallaby money (or at least limited amounts) without the Super teams so it's fairly moot

That also might have changed with the new deal but page 81 of the 2012 ARU annual report shows the Wallabies broadcasts subsidise the Super rugby teams. (Might be ARU playing games too!)

 

[Quick Hands]

I have no doubt that people don't want to travel over to Perth to play for the Force.

But I watch all of these guys in Club and NRC footy, the players you are referring to - they aren't hidden away in a warehouse somewhere. There are a few bench guys and squaddies who aren't getting the run they deserve at the moment, but only a few.

It's an argument in favour of moving the side, no doubt. But like all of the arguments I don't think it's a knockout.
.

So fringe super players don't want to travel as far as Perth, but will travel to France to play Pro D2?

 

[Gagger]

So fringe super players don't want to travel as far as Perth, but will travel to France to play Pro D2?

For about twice the money and a fraction of the tax?

Strangely yes

 

[Quick Hands]

For about twice the money and a fraction of the tax?

Strangely yes

The fringe players who can't get a super deal aren't on twice the money. A player from Manly went a couple of years ago on a contract way less than the minimum super rugby contract. He got a contract upgrade after a season - but that wasn't guaranteed. Simple fact is that he went because he couldn't get a super rugby contract in Australia - anywhere - including Perth.

The established players who go to France get the big dollars (Euros), but the guys who have never had a super deal don't - they have to take a chance, back their ability and hope they make it.

The idea that a Sydney or Brisbane club player could go to France and earn twice the money of a super rugby player, without ever having earnt a permanent super rugby contract is a fiction.

 

[Gagger]

The fringe players who can't get a super deal aren't on twice the money. A player from Manly went a couple of years ago on a contract way less than the minimum super rugby contract. He got a contract upgrade after a season - but that wasn't guaranteed. Simple fact is that he went because he couldn't get a super rugby contract in Australia - anywhere - including Perth.

The established players who go to France get the big dollars (Euros), but the guys who have never had a super deal don't - they have to take a chance, back their ability and hope they make it.

The idea that a Sydney or Brisbane club player could go to France and earn twice the money of a super rugby player, without ever having earnt a permanent super rugby contract is a fiction.

Your player in Manly didn't even have a minimum super contract. So by going to Europe he got something in Euros and paid f-all tax with the chance of earning much more, as he did

 

[Gnostic]

The fringe players who can't get a super deal aren't on twice the money. A player from Manly went a couple of years ago on a contract way less than the minimum super rugby contract. He got a contract upgrade after a season - but that wasn't guaranteed. Simple fact is that he went because he couldn't get a super rugby contract in Australia - anywhere - including Perth.



The established players who go to France get the big dollars (Euros), but the guys who have never had a super deal don't - they have to take a chance, back their ability and hope they make it.



The idea that a Sydney or Brisbane club player could go to France and earn twice the money of a super rugby player, without ever having earnt a permanent super rugby contract is a fiction.

Malone, Parkes and Donnelly spring to mind straight up. There are others if I could be bothered researching.

 

[barbarian]

That's all Pre-Force, though, isn't it G?

 

[Train Without a Station]

And all because of lack opportunity in Australia, no?

 

[TOCC]

No I haven't. I asked would these higher ratings lead to a bigger TV Deal.

Specifically if the 38k the force Drew was 70k.

Would this in isolation have any impact.

And the answer is still yes, higher ratings would increase the value the tv rights.

Also It's not in isolation is it, the season is 18 rounds long and the contract length is 5 years long or 75 games in total... What's the opportunity cost of a team which only generates 38k during prime time in their own market.

 

[Quick Hands]

Your player in Manly didn't even have a minimum super contract. So by going to Europe he got something in Euros and paid f-all tax with the chance of earning much more, as he did

But he only left because he couldn't get a super contract. For most of these guys, that's their first option. They go to Britain or France because there is no professional opportunity for them here - not because they don't want to live in Perth.

 

[Gagger]

But he only left because he couldn't get a super contract. For most of these guys, that's their first option. They go to Britain or France because there is no professional opportunity for them here - not because they don't want to live in Perth.

Well, I can take your n=1 guy from Manly or the CEO of RUPA and ex-CEO of the Force (before he was CEO of the Tahs).

I don't say that to be a wanker (I can see it may look that way), just to say that I'm not winging this - It is a well known problem for those involved with the Force that they can't get players over there. You don't sign unheard of Saffas if you don't have to - there are very good reasons why the Force never got above 7th despite the money spent.

 

[Strewthcobber]

Well, I can take your n=1 guy from Manly or the CEO of RUPA and ex-CEO of the Force (before he was CEO of the Tahs).

I don't say that to be a wanker (I can see it may look that way), just to say that I'm not winging this - It is a well known problem for those involved with the Force that they can't get players over there. You don't sign unheard of Saffas if you don't have to - there are very good reasons why the Force never got above 7th despite the money spent.

Would that be why RUPA are backing a draft now?

 

[Quick Hands]

Malone, Parkes and Donnelly spring to mind straight up. There are others if I could be bothered researching.

Chris Malone actually illustrates my point perfectly. Played for Manly 1996-98 (including Aust 19s and 21s). Moved to Uni in 1999 to 2001. Couldn't crack it for a super contract and then went to Britain.

His Australian representation meant that he wasn't just an ordinary club player, but someone who had represented his country albeit at age group level.

Dan Parks similarly illustrates my point - again, he wasn't able to get a super rugby deal so he moved to England to further his career. His first club was Leeds Tykes, who were in the 2nd Division - he didn't go there on a mega contract, he went there to try his luck.

Tim Donnelly played 2 years for the Waratahs, so didn't go from club rugby to a big time pro deal in Europe.

You may need to do that research to find someone who has played no higher than Sydney or Brisbane club rugby and was signed directly to a big contract in Europe.