Aussie Player Exodus

[BDA]

They should seriously be looking at the idea of player sabbaticals to keep players like Izzy. Let him go to Toulon or Japan for a season and get paid buckets of cash and then let him come back to aus and continue his career. Some players are worth finding compromises to keep them in the fold.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Once you allow it, it becomes about who has the best manager to negotiate the deal, not who is worth it. Where do you draw the line? Bringing in grey areas only creates problems.

It would be terrible if Izzy left, but currently the ARU are talking to a bloke called Karmichael Hunt. I'd prefer Izzy, but remember Hunt was one of the best fullbacks in the NRL when izzy was only a winger. In addition he has a better kicking game, is a better defender and generally a tougher competitor.

Even the very best can be replaced.

 

[matty_k]

Add Rocket Rod Davies
http://m.smh.com.au/rugby-union/que...avies-signs-with-biarritz-20140611-zs3dc.html

 

[Tangawizi]

Add Rocket Rod Davies
http://m.smh.com.au/rugby-union/que...avies-signs-with-biarritz-20140611-zs3dc.html

Bit of a shame he's going overseas at 25 but Richard Graham clearly isn't his biggest fan. He did score some fantastic tries for the Reds though.

 

[wamberal]

Once you allow it, it becomes about who has the best manager to negotiate the deal, not who is worth it. Where do you draw the line? Bringing in grey areas only creates problems.

It would be terrible if Izzy left, but currently the ARU are talking to a bloke called Karmichael Hunt. I'd prefer Izzy, but remember Hunt was one of the best fullbacks in the NRL when izzy was only a winger. In addition he has a better kicking game, is a better defender and generally a tougher competitor.

Even the very best can be replaced.

No, they cannot. Izzy is a huge draw card for our game, if he goes, his aura will be sadly missed.

Incidentally, I am still waiting for the replacements for John Eales, Tim Horan, and Toutai Kefu. It's been a long wait.

 

[Dave Beat]

NZ offer Sabaticals - McCaw, and Carter had a break.

I still like the idea of Japan even SBW had a period there in our off season on the way back to loig.

Surprised nobody has mentioned this before - hasn't the ARU already dabbled in this field with Elsom?

I'm more concerned about the Super & Super Fringe players going - they are our depth.

 

[RugbyReg]

What's the cut off? Anyone? Or just 50 cappers with a Folau sub-clause?

 

[oztimmay]

What's the cut off? Anyone? Or just 50 cappers with a Folau sub-clause?

Percentage of GAGR discussion / ranting about said person?

Seriously I think years of service is obvious, but some sort of marquee assessment (I.e. Completely subjective) would lead the assessment I think. Market draw would be a big factor.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Wamberal,

Horan retired and guys called Grey and Giteau came along. We still made a RWC final with Elton Flatley at 12. Hell even To'omua is looking very good there and likely will only improve.

Since Eales moved on players like Sharpe and Vickerman came along.

Yes we haven't had as good a number 8 since Kefu, but also when David Wilson retired George Smith came along. Swings and roundabouts.

Your post is extremely arrogant and ignorant, assuming that every player from the past is better than the current. Many of the current replacements have qualities that their predecessor's lacked (E.g. Vickerman was much more brutal in cleaning out than Eales ever was).

As I said, Hunt was a better NRL fullback than Izzy. It's not unreasonable to think that he could in fact make a better traditional rugby fullback than Izzy. Might not too. Just saying one player, no matter who, isn't the end of the world and worth changing the way you do things over.

Also Dave Beat, not sure I'd bring up Rocky Elsom OR Dan Carter as a reason for sabbaticals. Rocky left and never came back the same. Carter went to Perpignan , got injured and missed a bucketload of rugby, and some could argue hasn't been quite the same since.

The important thing to remember too, is that New Zealand has more depth to cover this stars in the case of injury or burn out. A McCaw sabbatical to stay fresh and peak at the right time is one thing. A Carter sabbatical to make cash, get injured and miss about 10 months is a completely different thing.

 

[Sir Arthur Higgins]

Biarritz is relegated to pro d2 and has an 11.4m budget. Granted french squads are larger but the end result is more money per player. As I said before, a lot
Of the French rugby towns are not all they are made out to be. A good mate played in montauban when they were top 14 and while he enjoyed the small town his wife struggled. No jobs. Nothing to do but be involved in the club. Life after rugby in a French town of 100,000 doesn't offer a lot.
Clermont is an industrial town. Outside Toulouse, Paris Biarritz, Bordeaux, it isn't great. It'd be like moving from Sydney to Dunedin. World class city to a town you only move to cause its in France.

The fact is there is not the depth here that there is in NZ and SA. The force and rebels are partly kiwi/sa teams anyways.
The French player welfare system is obviously not what the aru one is and you certainly seem to see a lot of players go there and get injured or come back shadows.
I think the best bet is to link with the Japanese system which gets players a lot of money in a relatively light season.
Also. There is no reason players can't so this now. They would just forgo wallabies eligibility for a year. Genia could go to Panasonic for 2016 and be signed onto the reds for 2017 season. He makes $2m for a year in Tokyo and comes back somewhat rested. He's in the same time zone so aru and reds can keep an eye on him and he is close to home for his own benefit.
I think it is a no brainer personally. Relieves the aru of genias contract. They could agree he only gets match payments for that year and no top up.
There would need to be a hard cut off with a subjective element as well. Personally I think 50 caps is too low. That could be 4 and a bit seasons. How about a World Cup cycle and a half I.e 65-70 caps. At which point the player is probably worth a shitload more anyways in japan.

 

[Dave Beat]

Also Dave Beat, not sure I'd bring up Rocky Elsom OR Dan Carter as a reason for sabbaticals. Rocky left and never came back the same. Carter went to Perpignan , got injured and missed a bucketload of rugby, and some could argue hasn't been quite the same since.

Train that is why I brought Elsom up (hadn't really paid attention to Carter).
1. A sabatical has been granted before - so there is an example.
2. I never selected Elsom on my squad since his return.

I think it is wrong to compare us to history, and say a player replaced Eales, Horan, etc etc the list would go on and we'd be focusing on history.

Different times now and I'd much rather the ARU be ahead of the times than watching countries, and players, make their move. If we sit back and watch it might be like coming in to have oranges with the scoreboard reading 60 - nil (game over).

Any ideas.

 

[Train Without a Station]

I think we are overreacting a little. Sir Arthur Higgins comment is exactly one. Specifically:

Of the French rugby towns are not all they are made out to be. A good mate played in montauban when they were top 14 and while he enjoyed the small town his wife struggled. No jobs. Nothing to do but be involved in the club. Life after rugby in a French town of 100,000 doesn't offer a lot.
Clermont is an industrial town. Outside Toulouse, Paris Biarritz, Bordeaux, it isn't great. It'd be like moving from Sydney to Dunedin. World class city to a town you only move to cause its in France.

The fact of the matter is yes, playing contracts are good. But much like you and I, rugby players are not solely driven by $$$. If they were Genia would already be at the Force as well as other examples. Job satisfaction is very important. I know I could be making more money in other jobs but I enjoy where I am, and very well likely wouldn't enjoy those jobs, so I stay.

Where it gets even murkier is the fact that whilst the playing contracts are good, there is zero financial benefit outside of that. It would want to be a damn good contract to get a guy to go play rugby in a town where his mrs cannot find a job, there isn't much aside from rugby to do and there is no endorsements, sponsorship agreements available and post career rugby options available.

I get the impression we are seeing a lot of these players go young is that they see it not really work out for players at the end of their careers. They go, they lose any transition through their profile into something post-rugby. Now they see they can do it earlier, before they peak, potentially come back better and maximise their profile then transition into post-rugby life well.

 

[Braveheart81]

He makes $2m for a year in Tokyo and comes back somewhat rested. He's in the same time zone so aru and reds can keep an eye on him and he is close to home for his own benefit.
I think it is a no brainer personally. Relieves the aru of genias contract. They could agree he only gets match payments for that year and no top up.
There would need to be a hard cut off with a subjective element as well. Personally I think 50 caps is too low. That could be 4 and a bit seasons. How about a World Cup cycle and a half I.e 65-70 caps. At which point the player is probably worth a shitload more anyways in japan.

The risk there is that if a player plays in Australia, then goes straight to Japan and then back to Australia there is no off season and I don't think they are fresh at all. It certainly isn't sustainable for the vast majority of players.

50 caps can be obtained within 4 seasons but that is by far the exception rather than the rule. It takes most players much longer.

If you look at the current squad, only AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) and Stephen Moore have played more than 65 matches. Other current players that are around there are Benn Robinson on 66 and Ben Alexander on 62. Genia is on 55 and there are a bunch of players around 50 tests.

Is your plan that you tell Will Genia that there is no longer a Wallaby top up available for him but he's free to earn more money by going overseas? Whilst this might free up more cash to pay fringe Wallabies more and try and keep them in the country, would it improve our rugby overall if we created a system which encouraged our best players to play two seasons each year?

It's a difficult situation and there is no easy answer. Personally, I think Australia needs to wait and see after the RWC. If too many players leave then maybe you do something. If you create rules allowing them to leave, surely that only encourages players to do so.

 

[Tex]

There's a bit of chat on The Roar about Genia having signed for Bath post RWC.

 

[Dave Beat]

It's a difficult situation and there is no easy answer. Personally, I think Australia needs to wait and see after the RWC. If too many players leave then maybe you do something. If you create rules allowing them to leave, surely that only encourages players to do so.

Yes difficult, and no easy answer.
Let's call the RWC half time, and the score board read 60 - 0 it would have to be the come back off all time.

Any chance in getting someone from the ARU to share the thoughts and ideas that float around the boardroom.

We've had club players come out here and club players play abroad that is one of the great things about rugby, but how can we benefit and manage that at a national level?

 

[Gnostic]

Most people haven't factored in the dire state of the ARU in their thinking. On all available information it is likely that the ARU will fail after the RWC. That means that the Rebels and Force will also go and most likely the Brumbies as well. The Reds may survive in their current format if they do not bleed too many fans between now and then and the Tahs will be totally dependent on a private takeover.

This is the situation unless some outside factor comes in and changes the circumstances of the ARU.

I would expect that given the settled nature of the Wallabies squads going into a RWC, that any player not in the current squad, and off contract will be looking overseas as a first option. Indeed even some who would have been first choice squad members are taking that stable option now, such as Douglas.

This has to be the first time in the professional era that players have elected to leave Australia immediately before the RWC.

 

[Braveheart81]

Most people haven't factored in the dire state of the ARU in their thinking. On all available information it is likely that the ARU will fail after the RWC. That means that the Rebels and Force will also go and most likely the Brumbies as well. The Reds may survive in their current format if they do not bleed too many fans between now and then and the Tahs will be totally dependent on a private takeover.

I disagree with this completely. I think the ARU is unlikely to fail immediately after the 2015 RWC because of the cost cutting regime they have been implementing since Pulver took over and the cash in the bank from the Lions tour.

I agree the situation is far from good but I don't think it is nearly as bad as you are saying.

Certainly how the Rebels fare financially this year and next will be important though.

Why will the Tahs be totally dependent on a private takeover?

 

[Pete King]

I think TWAS is right, When we think French Rugby atm we think of Matt Gits instagram pics of the BBQ over looking 360 degrees of the water. In reality its a big move for a bloke to turn his back on a wallaby jersey and shift him and his partner to the other side of the world to a non english first language country. I know heaps of guys who havent enjoyed the time overseas playing Rugby at all.

An Australian Rugby player is just like any other career and Money is almost always not the major reason for someone to leave their place of employment. Generally it comes down to the employee not feeling valued - cite Gits, Mitchell, Palmer. Can some times come down to a major life incident giving you a new perspective on life cite Douglas. Id say that Alofa Alofa's management are well aware that speight will be eligable for Wallabies and the possible/probably return of O'connor will mean limited opportunity to advance.

All that being said WC success is pretty crucial, Low moral would be another reason to go. You will always have a guy who is finishing up their career looking overseas and good luck to them, Cant say that when T Kefu and O Finegan left late in their career they were any big loss to Australian Rugby.

 

[Train Without a Station]

Could not agree more BH. Cost cutting measures have been implemented in order to survive on the current income. In addition to that they are investing in the NRC which in 2-5 years could bring additional income (I wouldn't anticipate it to be any greater than 6 figures in the first few years of profitability however).

Further to this there is a new TV deal to be negotiated. For the income to reduce it would be an unprecedented drop in value for almost any sporting content. For it not to increase in value would be almost unprecedented also. It is fair to assume that going forward the ARU's television revenue will increase relatively to their costs (provide they don't expand their cost requirements). This will allow for measures such as adding to the Lions tour savings banked, and increasing their cost requirements through additional marketing, further investment in the NRC or widening the ARU contracting pool.

Hard work is head, but to say they are on the brink is incorrect. The surplus from last year would sustain at least a few years of their previous losses alone. In addition it appears the IRB's compensation to major nations in RWC years is only improving, which will lessen the load of the worst years.

 

[Gnostic]

@BH even with all the cuts the ARU is still projected to make a loss, and the Tahs as with the Force and Rebels are dependant on cash from head office to survive and also are close to making a loss this year with their low crowd figures early on, if not already there.

As for the TV deal, the Rugby brand has been in actual decline for man years now. I think it is pie in the sky stuff to expect any significant increase in the TV deal, in real terms and that is what the ARU must get.

Time will tell, but with a significant decrease in revenue in a RWC year much of the Lions money will be burnt and there are no reserves.