Australia v England

[Joe Blow]

Great article by Nic Bishop
https://www.theroar.com.au/2018/11/28/why-the-answers-for-australian-rugby-are-blowin-in-the-wind/

Just when Sekope Kepu is beginning to enjoy his last few games as a Wallaby on the left side of the scrum, he’s required to move back to the right and receives an ill-deserved stuffing.

Just as young Jack Maddocks is looking to establish himself as an international player at 10 or 15, he finds himself trying to play a complicated role on the wing for which he is ill-suited.

Maybe he should have talked to Marika Koroibete and Sefa Naivalu


No stability, no growth. The unwillingness of the Wallaby coaches to embrace the simplicity of this truth is becoming ever more bewildering.

Let everyone selected for the Test team concentrate on their core role and learn all of its nuances inside out.

No movement beyond that – or else the answer to Wallaby woes my friends, will always be elusive.

 

[southsider]

There are a heap more players (players of quality and potential, which was my point I was referring to) plying their trade overseas. I wrote "a heap more" because I'm not going to list every australian player not playing in oz.

It is no secret that Te'o strongly preferred to play for the wallabies and bent over backwards to make it happen only to be screwed around by chieka(who is notorious amongst the playing group when it comes to negotiations). Eddie jumped straight on him when he heard what had happened. Just because you have zero idea about something perhaps you shouldn't assume that someone else doesnt have an idea.

I'm not for completely opening the doors for all overseas players being selected. Having only had a short think about it I believe they would have to fulfill certain criteria such as playing at a certain level of rugby(eg not playing in a Spanish competition which they joined to basically have a holiday), there must be some clause that they have to give back to australian rugby somehow. It wouldn't be bad financially for other countries to perhaps take the more expensive players off our hands which would open up more contracts for players we lose to other codes. Plus as many have noted pretty much every player who has gone north has improved.

The concept absolutely has legs but it has to have boundaries and inplemented. problem is RA will be the ones doing both which means it would likely he a fuck up.

And I’m challenging that comment and saying there isn’t? What number of “quality” players overseas do you think warrants destroying our domestic competition?

Also you went from “we need to pick overseas players” to “we need to select overseas players but there will be some sort of criteria” completely changing your argument..........good work

And I apologise I didn’t know you were good mates with Ben Te’o however I think Benny boy has been fibbing to you a bit because despite living in Australia he isn’t a Australian which means after the 2 years he had overseas playing footy to the point where he was considered potential test material (remember no one knew how good he’d be) he would’ve had to come back, play super rugby and wait a couple of years while he waited to be eligible through residency, instead he went with England because he had an English mother and could play instantly...........but no it’s Cheikas fault Te’os mum popped him out in nz instead of Australia

 

[dru]

Great article by Nic Bishop
https://www.theroar.com.au/2018/11/28/why-the-answers-for-australian-rugby-are-blowin-in-the-wind/

Just when Sekope Kepu is beginning to enjoy his last few games as a Wallaby on the left side of the scrum, he’s required to move back to the right and receives an ill-deserved stuffing.

Just as young Jack Maddocks is looking to establish himself as an international player at 10 or 15, he finds himself trying to play a complicated role on the wing for which he is ill-suited.

Maybe he should have talked to Marika Koroibete and Sefa Naivalu


No stability, no growth. The unwillingness of the Wallaby coaches to embrace the simplicity of this truth is becoming ever more bewildering.

Let everyone selected for the Test team concentrate on their core role and learn all of its nuances inside out.

No movement beyond that – or else the answer to Wallaby woes my friends, will always be elusive.

While I don’t think there was a single direct criticism of the coaching team, a more damning condemnation of Cheika is unlikely to be written.

I’ve been thinking we have to hold on to Cheika until after the RWC, but this sort of analysis says I’m wrong.

 

[notapatrioticboneinme]

Jack Maddocks, 10?
excuse my ignorance but how is his tactical nouse (including kicking)?, thanks
is he the answer?

 

[notapatrioticboneinme]

that's a lot of effort to go to for some good ol' fashion Hooper bashing. I'm impressed.

tks Derpus, but not 'bashing', only as a response to the vastly different opinions of those posters who scored him in the 3-2-1.
Admittedly, I would never have him as 7 when Pocock is available; why ffs play Pocock anywhere but 7, friggin' bewildering,
all the best

 

[notapatrioticboneinme]

Sio and Kepu struggled at their prime objective of holding up the scrum

No argument from me but still think overall, including set pieces, they contributed more than Hooper did as 7

 

[Lorenzo]

It's inevitable in my mind that we not only start picking OS players without constraint, but we start to actively encourage it. Let someone else pay Folau (or whoever) 800k a year and we can pay him 15k per test.

 

[Derpus]

It's inevitable in my mind that we not only start picking OS players without constraint, but we start to actively encourage it. Let someone else pay Folau (or whoever) 800k a year and we can pay him 15k per test.

It would be the end of the game in Aus. If there was no domestic pathway, people would just play league as it would be the only realistic way to make money playing footy.

People suggest that the game would go the way of Soccer, but it wouldnt. Soccer is by far the most popular game in the world and is heading that way in Australia. There is appetite to play, even in a shit league. There simply wont be this for rugby.

 

[I like to watch]

Jack Maddocks, 10?
excuse my ignorance but how is his tactical nouse (including kicking)?, thanks
is he the answer?

I’ve only seen him play a few games at 10.
He played very much a NH style, and played territory all day.
So he ticks the kicking box.
Can’t vouch for the rest, but he had plenty of raps.

 

[Lorenzo]

It would be the end of the game in Aus. If there was no domestic pathway, people would just play league as it would be the only realistic way to make money playing footy.

People suggest that the game would go the way of Soccer, but it wouldnt. Soccer is by far the most popular game in the world and is heading that way in Australia. There is appetite to play, even in a shit league. There simply wont be this for rugby.

What? Why would allowing players to choose to play overseas eliminate the 'domestic pathway'? If anything it would create more open slots for professional players.

 

[Derpus]

What? Why would allowing players to choose to play overseas eliminate the 'domestic pathway'? If anything it would create more open slots for professional players.

All the talent would leave, and what remaining interest would follow. From there our already broke clubs become destitute and fold because no one pays to watch their substandard rugby. No clubs, no pathway, no rugby beyond shute shield in Australia.

 

[RugbyReg]

I’ve only seen him play a few games at 10.
He played very much a NH style, and played territory all day.
So he ticks the kicking box.
Can’t vouch for the rest, but he had plenty of raps.

when and for who?

 

[Joe Blow]

All the talent would leave, and what remaining interest would follow. From there our already broke clubs become destitute and fold because no one pays to watch their substandard rugby. No clubs, no pathway, no rugby beyond shute shield in Australia.

The gig is up for Super Rugby. Looks like the Saffas are going to play in Europe and we will end up with a trans-Tasman comp along with our NRC and club rugby.
That’s not so bad and interest in club rugby in both NSW and QLD is on the rise.
Maybe they lower the requirement to 20 tests?

 

[Lorenzo]

All the talent would leave, and what remaining interest would follow. From there our already broke clubs become destitute and fold because no one pays to watch their substandard rugby. No clubs, no pathway, no rugby beyond shute shield in Australia.

Sorry, but there is no evidence of this. You are vastly overstating the demand for Australian players.

Leaving aside the foreign player caps (the Premiership only allows 2 foreign players in the field at any time), there are only so many spots available in the OS pro leagues. Between Japan, the Celts, the English and the French, there's 60 teams.

Rugby hasn't disappeared in South Africa, and they have the Bosman/Kolpak rulings dictating that their players aren't subject to foreign caps in Europe. They also have a fairly small interest base (ethnic Africans a largely more interested in soccer).

 

[Derpus]

The gig is up for Super Rugby. Looks like the Saffas are going to play in Europe and we will end up with a trans-Tasman comp along with our NRC and club rugby.
That’s not so bad and interest in club rugby in both NSW and QLD is on the rise.
Maybe they lower the requirement to 20 tests?

I think the test cap system isn't great. I would just have a minimum number of years playing for a club in whichever comp directly feeds the Wallabies.

So, for example, if the minimum was 4 years Will Skelton could be selected for the Wallabies now as he was signed with the Tahs from 2013-2017.

This way, you protect the domestic clubs and the domestic league whilst still allowing players to go on and pursue overseas interests without jeopardizing their International careers. It also means players that wernt Wallaby standard while in Australia could still be selected later on.

 

[Derpus]

Sorry, but there is no evidence of this. You are vastly overstating the demand for Australian players.

Leaving aside the foreign player caps (the Premiership only allows 2 foreign players in the field at any time), there are only so many spots available in the OS pro leagues. Between Japan, the Celts, the English and the French, there's 50 teams.

Rugby hasn't disappeared in South Africa, and they have the Bosman/Kolpak rulings dictating that their players aren't subject to foreign caps in Europe.

No evidence but the 100+ professional Australian rugby players currently playing in Europe or Japan?

 

[Lorenzo]

Yeah? And? They are there already, and they can only hire so many of them.

 

[Derpus]

Yeah? And? They are there already, and they can only hire so many of them.

So you are basing the future success of our league on the assumption, and it is an assumption, that there is no way that any more Australian players could be hired overseas?

I'm somewhat unconvinced.

 

[Lorenzo]

I said we wanted more players going OS, not less. But more != everyone, for reasons that should be obvious.

We pay Folau (for example) $1m (say) for what, 10 months of his time.

Thing is, we aren't actually generating any revenue for 7 of those months because he is tied up in the low as-fuck ROI Super Rugby competition.

So if we can work our way into paying him 300k for wallaby duty, and someone else pays him 700k for the rest of his time, I think that puts ahead. Maybe not by 700k, but by more than zero.

Clearly, he would need to be available for when we need him.

I've seen enough of your all-over-the-shop posting to know that you will be 100% behind the idea in a fortnight, so I think i'll just wait.

 

[southsider]

Yeah? And? They are there already, and they can only hire so many of them.

Because instead of the 100+ being a spread of top level to pretty ordinary players all of a sudden a hell of a lot more of our best players will head overseas, leaving us with the lower level players meaning an inferior domestic comp meaning why the fuck would I bother watching super rugby? If interest in super rugby goes all the franchises go broke, if they go broke general interest and development greatly disappears eventually killing union in this country

Also can’t believe you used South Africa as a example of why we should do this, absolutely mind boggling