Australia v New Zealand - Sydney 16 Aug

[Braveheart81]

Different kettle of fish with respect to the decision making surround the non-drop goal option in the dying stages of the match.

I think the only reason there was no drop goal attempt was because they gave away a penalty at the first phase after the scrum.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

At 37:46 minutes, Peyper penalised Crockett. KB (Kurtley Beale) picked up the ball immediately and by 37:48 had taken a quick tap from the mark. I don't think that there was any time for Hooper to make a Captain's Decision before KB (Kurtley Beale) had played on. After Six phases of advantage, at 38:31 minutes, Simmonds lost the ball forward in contact.

Jaco took them back to the site of the original Crockett infringement, and sent Crockett to the Sin Bin.

Hooper decided to take the scrum option, at 38:42 minutes to force the opposition to drop a player in order to contest the scrummage. Scrum was about 15 metres out, 4 metres to the right of the sticks. From the sideline commentary position, Sharpie called that the strategy was to get The Darkness to drop a loosie.

The scrum was fed at 39:41. 4 phases later, at 40:17, Jaco pinged the AIG's for being offside. Penalty was 6 metres from the tryline, 15 in metres from the left touch line. Hooper indicated shot at goal. KB (Kurtley Beale) took the ball back to the 22 m line for the shot. It was kicked at 41:35 and hit the right upright an the Men in Gold regathered from the ricochet. From the ensuing ruch, Palu was bundled out into touch at 41:55.

Peyper called for Oranges.

IMHO there was nothing wrong with the decision making of Hooper over that period. Points were on offer and it was inaccurate execution by #10, and the scrambling defence of the AIG's not the decision making of the Captain why the points (3, 5 or 7) were not achieved.

Different kettle of fish with respect to the decision making surround the non-drop goal option in the dying stages of the match.

2 things HJ:
(1) what the second penalty for - the one where Hooper takes the scrum option? Peyper never says and does not give a signal.
(2) It was hooper's decision to take a scrum and it was plain wrong. he should admit it and stop defending it. Defending it makes me think he'll do it again and you just don't get that many chances to beat the AB's in a lifetime.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

I think the only reason there was no drop goal attempt was because they gave away a penalty at the first phase after the scrum.

who probably should not have been a penalty - the Ab is on the ball before Barrett has released

 

[Braveheart81]

2 things HJ:
(1) what the second penalty for - the one where Hooper takes the scrum option? Peyper never says and does not give a signal.
(2) It was hooper's decision to take a scrum and it was plain wrong. he should admit it and stop defending it. Defending it makes me think he'll do it again and you just don't get that many chances to beat the AB's in a lifetime.

He just called advantage again. I'm guessing it because they hadn't retired the 10 when Beale took the tap.

who probably should not have been a penalty - the Ab is on the ball before Barrett has released

Yes. It did seem way too fast for it to be legal.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

He just called advantage again. I'm guessing it because they hadn't retired the 10 when Beale took the tap

Which is probably right but we should not be guessing - everything he said to McCaw was about Crockof. the delay makes me thin he got a call from the AR too.
i suppose if one is pulling apart Peyper's game worrying about not telling us why he gave penalties that were deserved is a second order consideration.

 

[Pfitzy]

@TahDan - IF we have advantage AND there is nothing better on, then maybe it could be attempted. But if you fuck it up, and your fullback is committed, you'd better be scrambling like a muthafucker to get back elsewhere.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

2 things HJ:
(1) what the second penalty for - the one where Hooper takes the scrum option? Peyper never says and does not give a signal.
(2) It was hooper's decision to take a scrum and it was plain wrong. he should admit it and stop defending it. Defending it makes me think he'll do it again and you just don't get that many chances to beat the AB's in a lifetime.

Q1 has been discussed above.

Q2. Would you rather have NZ playing with 1 fatty and three back rowers for 10 minutes, or two fatties and two back rowers? Taking the scrum forced the NZRT hand numbers wise. Good decision. Perhaps that scrum should have had Beale in the pocket to take a drop kick. It would not have been a difficult drop kick. That option would have had a high possibility of 3 points to Gold, as well as removing a Black loose forward from 10 minutes.

As it was the consequence of the scrum decision was another chance to get 3 easy points. There was a slightly lower probability outcome of The Darkness being pinged again from the ensuing phases after the scrum but it was not outside the realms of probability, AND the bad guys did lose a flanker.

I'm comfortable with that decision making from Hooper, and having had two rants on it now, I will bow out of further debate on that aspect of the game.

 

[TahDan]

@TahDan - IF we have advantage AND there is nothing better on, then maybe it could be attempted. But if you fuck it up, and your fullback is committed, you'd better be scrambling like a muthafucker to get back elsewhere.

Surely if you have an advantage no scrambling to cover a fuck up wouldn't be necessary.

The point is that when it's done well and you have a very good player in the air it can extremely hard to defend against.

As I said, I do think it should be reserved mostly for advantages, so it's not like I think they should just go to it willy nilly, but I haven't seen it used in a very long time.


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[Inside Shoulder]

Perhaps that scrum should have had Beale in the pocket to take a drop kick. It would not have been a difficult drop kick. That option would have had a high possibility of 3 points to Gold, as well as removing a Black loose forward from 10 minutes.

Mate, your clutching at straws.
How could you justify taking the scrum to take a drop goal shot? Much lower percentage.
there was so little time left in the half that getting rid of the back rower was of little practical use.
For me Horan called it in real time and I can go to my grave knowing that he and I agreed on that one.

 

[Pfitzy]

Surely if you have an advantage no scrambling to cover a fuck up wouldn't be necessary.

The prosecution submits the fact that Peyper allowed a triple advantage we had in the kiwi 22 to expire, your honour.

 

[TahDan]

The prosecution submits the fact that Peyper allowed a triple advantage we had in the kiwi 22 to expire, your honour.

Touche. He really was awful... possibly the worst exponent of the advantage rule I've seen - either blowing it up straight away or just calling advantage played after the half-back began contemplating the first pass after getting it.

 

[ACT Crusader]

Not a fan of cross field "bombs" but...
It may be a way of combining 2 requirements - the lower percentage play of IF regaining the ball coupled with the need to create doubt in the minds of the defenders and push them back on their heels occasionally to stop them getting up so quickly.
ABs used the sliding grubber well against us but because we have Rule #1 "No kicking" we don't even look at it.
They know we will not kick away possession so its just one less thing they have had to worry about.
A shallow cross field catchable kick with IF looming may give him more room next time he is joining the line because of the possibility of a kick behind their defensive line.
Our attack is not causing too much doubt in the minds of the AB's - anything that does should be evaluated.

OZ initially made okay metres on the outside, but then it got far to predictable and the AB defence was holding. I was surprised that there wasn't more variation to the attack and the use of the kicking game (from the 1st and 2nd 5s) by the Wallabies.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

I think the only reason there was no drop goal attempt was because they gave away a penalty at the first phase after the scrum.

76 minutes onwards. Wobs have the ball on halfway from a short arm penalty for early scrum shove by Black and they grind it up to 18 metres out over 14 phases.

78:34 minutes Beaugan Barrett is still in the bin. JP awards scrum to Gold for unplayable in the Ruck, Gold going forward.
Kepu off for Alexander. Drinks break all round. Scrum is about 18 metres from the try line about 10 metres to the left of the posts. Gold backs line up to the right of the scrum. BF is standing about 25-28 metres from the try line in line with the left upright.
79:06 Scrum finally packs as JP calls "Set".
79:13 scrum collapse. JP calls for reset. Gold feed.
While the fatties are combing their hair and scratching their nuts, Beaugan Barrett leaves the naughty chair and returns around 79:40.
80:00 JP call set for the scrum.
Phipps to Foley who crabs sideways and then turns the ball inside to Horne who goes into contact 20 metres out about 3 metres to the right of the right upright.
80:12 JP pings Gold for not releasing (20 Cane gets turnover) To'omua, Two-Dads, Higgers, and Hooper (too late by the time he arrives) hit the ruck to assist Horne. Beaugan Barrett helps bring Horne to ground He's probably the Tackler, and he rolls away. Cane is on to the ball. No other Black players join the breakdown contest. JP is well positioned to see what happened in terms of when the Black tackler released the tackled player, and when actions of Cane as the tackle assist/pilerfer.
80:27 JP gives Sir Richie the sign that there is not time for a lineout.
80:33 Smith quick tap and pass to Read to yarda yarda yarda....
81:10 5 phases by Black fail to cross the 22 and a pass from 15 Smith to Fekitoa/Jane is knocked forward by Fekitoa.
No Game called by JP.


Maybe a backline move was on at the first scrum when The Darkness had one still in the bin. For the second scrum at 80:00 minutes, with The Darkness restored to 15 players on the field, it was time to take the 3 point drop goal rather than risk moving closer for an easier goal. The Men in Gold were certainly not ready to take a drop goal from the second phase.

 

[Braveheart81]

Is a drop goal directly from a scrum that easy though? You're not certain of settled ball and the opposing halfback only has to be behind the ball to be onside. He's the player who's the biggest threat to charge the ball down.

I think setting up from the breakdown is the percentage play. You can't plan to be giving away a penalty at the first phase.

 

[Hugh Jarse]

We had 3 players there to blow Cane off the ball and didn't (Horne and Barrett tackled player and tacking player).

There didn't seem to be any forward running option to rumble it up had we recycled the ball. Foley had dropped back a little, but there appeared to be piggies in the way that would have prevented a DG had we not lost that tackle contest. There was at least one more phase play needed before BF would have been ready for the DG.

For a fairly predictable set piece play, it seemed to be rather poorly executed.

 

[Benaud]

Was a cracking game in the end. No tries, torrential rain, plenty of expected errors and nothing in it. Australia spent pretty much the entire last 50 minutes with the ball and just couldn't break through while the Kiwis had the best try scoring opportunity of the match early and squandered it. In the end it came down to one incredibly fast turnover at the death to save it for the Kiwis with Foley ready to slot a field goal on the next phase.

On Australia: Huge improvement on my expectations, especially up front. Slipper in particular was exceptional and never in doubt for man of the match. The backs weren't hugely involved given the conditions. White was limping ever since the clash with Folau early and really needed to be subbed straight away - that was a coaching error though and he performed about as well as could have been expected on one leg. Beale was probably the only disappointing performer, although it's hard to know how much that had to do with the conditions, bearing in mind Cruden was almost as bad. I'd be surprised if there are any unforced changes for next week.

As much as we were giving it to the ref throughout - the report from the ref's coach was mostly positive. The not straight was the only blatant error. "Jaco: You mean a 50-50 I probably should have let go? Coach: Jaco, it could not have been straighter." The only other errors related to scrums and cancelled each other out. Not giving a scrum penalty to the Wallabies on the 5th NZ early engagement in the match after warning them on the 4th that a penalty would follow and being duped by the Aussie front row into thinking 2 of those were early engagements by NZ anyway when both sides went at the same time.

The atmosphere at the ground was awesome. For a game played in such poor conditions with no tries and only one line break, the crowd was pretty immense, remained loud and never switched off. Good to meet some of the boys here in the box - no worries with the rain up there - made for a good night.

 

[Inside Shoulder]

Is a drop goal directly from a scrum that easy though? You're not certain of settled ball and the opposing halfback only has to be behind the ball to be onside. He's the player who's the biggest threat to charge the ball down.

I think setting up from the breakdown is the percentage play. You can't plan to be giving away a penalty at the first phase.

Another problem was that once cowan came on higginbtoham had no choice but to detach and clear the ball given even more time to charge down any drop goal attempt

 

[Micheal]

Next week:

Phipps in for White (I thought all of the shape that people have credited to Foley coming on was actually the result of quick ball from Phipps. The man's work rate off the ball is absurd).

Foley / Higgers / Skelton / Kurindrani staggered onto the field at the 55th - 60th minute mark.

Tomane / Betham / anyone in for McCabe.

Simmons aka Robin Arryn to leave the Eyrie and harden up a little bit. If he can't, drop him - no lineout functionality is worth his softness.

Palu to make more of an impact.

Wallabies to win by 5.

 

[lewisr]

To be clear guys - I'm not advocating we try emulate League and do it all the time. Just that it at least out to be a well rehearsed attacking option we have in our bag of tricks when we're playing a team like NZ.

We have used it in the past against NZ. Quade used one in the final test in dunedin last year and we ended up scoring about 3 phases after that. It wasn't perfectly executed because Folau ended up 5m short of the line but it did enough to break the Kiwi defense witha big crash ball to Kuridrani.

 

[Marcelo]

We all agree that Foley should be at the starting XV next saturday, right?

It's a pretty low percentage play in the wet. They probably backed themselves to score a try with ball in hand.

It's not the easiest thing to set up for from general phase play. You need to be pretty shallow to the try line and have plenty of field to work with.

I'd also like to see it tried more often but I can understand why it's not the go to move.

Yeah, everybody love crossfield bombs but in Union is very risky