Ben Mowen survives alleged mutiny plot.........

[Hoolly Doolly]

Pretty low imo opinion to try and shaft Mowen so soon. I rate him. Ive never rated Kev as a great captain and definitely not Rocky. Sharpey should have been the captain after mortlock. There are legitimate concerns that mowen may not be able to hold his own position in the wallabies 15 but I dnt think any of the returning players can really fill the leadership role. Not even Pocock.

 

[fatprop]

Stuck here because I couldn't be arsed finding somewhere more appropriate, but it seems clear it wasn't "mummy and daddy" standing at the door when they got home late pointing at their watch and the term "fiasco" gets a deeper meaning

New standards agreed for Wallabies after Dublin drinking fiasco

The Australian Rugby Union will develop a uniform set of team protocols spanning Super Rugby and the Wallabies as a result of the fall-out from last year's spring tour controversy.
It has also been agreed the 15 players disciplined for staying out late drinking in Dublin four days before the Wallabies Test against Ireland will not have the incidents used against them in future disciplinary proceedings. (generally the case when the discipline was essentially illegal)

...................

But RUPA officials were incensed by what they saw as the public hanging-out-to-dry of players whose reputations were, until then, unsullied.

RUPA maintained the players were not breath-tested (well it appears it was two days later), that the ARU used a "High Performance Athletes' Agreement" that the players' association had never seen to justify its course of action and that the severity of the punishment was not consistent with the ARU's own classification of the players' offences.

The players' association also maintained there was never an agreed team curfew despite McKenzie's assertions at the time that the parameters were clear.

Fairfax Media has since learned from a team source that the players did agree on a curfew, but that it was decided at a team meeting two days after the Tuesday night out in question.

The subject of a curfew was brought up for discussion at the Thursday meeting, with one player nominating midnight as an appropriate time to be back at the team hotel the night before a day off.

The players were then asked by the coaching staff to raise their hands if they arrived home after midnight. Fifteen players raised their hands.

A Wallabies spokesman did not refute this version of events but declined to comment.

The players' association was also furious they were not consulted at any point before the suspensions were made public.

Harris was in Dublin the week the incident occurred and met with ARU chief executive Bill Pulver and chairman Michael Hawker on the Saturday morning of the Test match. No mention was made of the incident or McKenzie's intended course of action.

McKenzie spent Thursday and Friday talking to the players involved about their actions. After the side's 32-15 victory at Aviva Stadium, he told the team there would be repercussions for Tuesday night. The next morning he informed the players of their penalties before the squad flew to Edinburgh. McKenzie briefed the travelling journalists, including Fairfax Media, on Monday morning.
Harris found out about the incident when he arrived back in Sydney on Monday night.

"We contest the ARU's assertion that the way in which it was handled was appropriate and we were also very disappointed in the fact it wasn't raised with us when we met with the ARU in Dublin," Harris said.


..........................................

'''''''''
http://www.bordermail.com.au/story/...wallabies-after-dublin-drinking-fiasco/?cs=12

I found this quite bizarre really, retrospective punishment with no clear "rules" being broken?

I said at the time I thought the whole thing was a a PR beat up with players being suspended for a game they were unlikely to play in anyway and this gives me more confirmation.

 

[Scotty]

That was also my thoughts at the time - conveniently choosing the weakest team they were playing against to suspend normal starters and only warning others.

 

[Braveheart81]

No wonder Adam Ashley-Cooper's mum was so upset at the time.

What a stitch up!

 

[Ash]

Am I the only one that still has no problem with it?

Save your 3am nights for your holidays or Subbies tours.

You are professionals on a tour where physical performance is important. Behave like a professional.

All I see are people looking for semantics and furry lines and grey areas to make allowances for behaviour that should not happen in the first place.

 

[Braveheart81]

Am I the only one that still has no problem with it?

Save your 3am nights for your holidays or Subbies tours.

You are professionals on a tour where physical performance is important. Behave like a professional.

All I see are people looking for semantics and furry lines and grey areas to make allowances for behaviour that should not happen in the first place.

Professionalism goes both ways.

There needs to be clearly established rules and guidelines for what is expected.

Effectively the players were punished for a rule which didn't exist until after the event and the punishments were handed out with no consultation with RUPA who represent the players.

It smacked of amateur hour from all parties involved.

 

[Scoey]

Professionalism goes both ways.

There needs to be clearly established rules and guidelines for what is expected.

Effectively the players were punished for a rule which didn't exist until after the event and the punishments were handed out with no consultation with RUPA who represent the players.

It smacked of amateur hour from all parties involved.

Does there? Do they need everything spelled out for them? I know that if I take my pants off and wander around the office I'm gonna get a speaking to. I don't need a policy or protocol or whatever to tell me that.
I also know that if I go and do something on my own time that impacts my ability to do my job effectively, then my boss is going to have a problem with that. I don't see why these guys need to have their hands held.

 

[Braveheart81]

Does there? Do they need everything spelled out for them? I know that if I take my pants off and wander around the office I'm gonna get a speaking to. I don't need a policy or protocol or whatever to tell me that.
I also know that if I go and do something on my own time that impacts my ability to do my job effectively, then my boss is going to have a problem with that. I don't see why these guys need to have their hands held.

Yes. I would say there does need to be. Particularly when you are talking about curfews.

Remember that this was before their day off.

If your employer punished you on Monday morning because they found out that you were out to 3am on Saturday night (regardless of whether you were particularly drunk or not and regardless of whether there was any indication that your performance on the Monday could be affected), then the employee would have legal grounds to challenge that because it is decidedly unfair.

I am not saying that the players were in the right to stay out as late as they did, but the punishment was ridiculous given that there was no rule in place to suggest that what they did was wrong or that they would be punished for it.

 

[TOCC]

This article like all the rest has journalistic license

 

[Scrubber2050]

think most players (maybe not AAC (Adam Ashley-Cooper) AND his Mum) accept it (the punishment). They may have been privately pissed off but ????

Really believe it was more about Link putting his stamp (or foot) on the team, as to what was expected in the future blah blah.

The real contaversy was whether Mowen was the dobber - that was the bit that allegedly;
1. got up the teams' noses collectively; and
2. tended to separate him further from the group itself

 

[qwerty51]

They're pissed off by the media reporting it as a binge drinking night. Listen to Ruggamatrix podcast 183 with Rocky Elsom, he details it pretty well.

 

[Scrubber2050]

was Rocky there????

 

[TOCC]

Was JOC (James O'Connor) & KB (Kurtley Beale) wrong to go to Burger King at 3am in the morning?

 

[Braveheart81]

Really believe it was more about Link putting his stamp (or foot) on the team, as to what was expected in the future blah blah.

No doubt this is what it was all about.

The problem is that there was no rule in place that was broken, no representation for the players by RUPA to have their side of the story heard and a punishment that was decided by the coach.

This is not how things work in a professional environment where the players are employees and the ARU, not Ewen McKenzie their employer.

That is why none of these punishments will be considered in the future against any of these players because they were dished out unjustly.

Whether or not the players should have stayed out as late as they did (which clearly they shouldn't have, irrespective of the next day being their day off) is irrelevant to the situation.

 

[TOCC]

I agree with your comments Braveheart but i don't think the punishment was unjust, the precedent was set by JOC (James O'Connor) and KB (Kurtley Beale) only a few months earlier when they caused a media circus by going for a late night snack and posing for photos.

I think it's ridiculous to suggest that players shouldn't be punished because there wasn't a defined rule, there wasn't a specific rule but there was an obvious right and wrong scenario.

 

[Braveheart81]

The question has to be asked, why didn't the ARU make a rule in response to the JOC (James O'Connor) and KB (Kurtley Beale) incident?

I also don't think the idea of a punishment was ridiculous. It had to be done through the proper channels though.

Many people have made comments about it being unprofessional for the players to stay out late, but by exactly the same token, punishing them in the method McKenzie did was also completely unprofessional.

 

[TOCC]

I think the real question here is, in an environment of professional men do they really need a rule for everything including curfews on a weeknight before a test match?

I would have thought there would have been enough maturity and common sense in that group to make the right decision, they either knew what they were doing was pushing the boundaries or there was some naivety to think it was ok.

 

[Bullrush]

It was a Tuesday nite and they had the next day off. We're not talking about the night before or the nite before the nite before.

I think it's ridiculous and if you want people to behave in a specific way - tell them. Like I tell my wife, don't give me subtle hints, don't drop big hints and don't expect me to read between the lines. If you say everything is 'fine', I'll act like everything is fine.

If guys had stayed up till 2am in the morning playing PS3 or poker or on the phones to their families in their hotel room would they have been punished?

Honestly, who cares if they stayed up late on a Tuesday nite. They can sleep on Wednesday if they want. I agree with BH - pretty unprofessional from McKenzie and given that they apparently didn't even know who was out until they put their hands up in a meeting, who'd be keen to own up to anything in the future??

 

[Scoey]

The message was never about following the rules or be punished. It's about holding yourself and your team to the highest of standards or you won't make the match squad. I don't know why that's so hard to understand? It's really that simple.

 

[Sully]

Mowen didn't dob. Link heard them come in (source can't be named)